284 réponses à ce sujet

[Sevitan7]

This was before the patch. I haven't tested it after, so I am unaware if there is any change there. I can test it out though!

 

Whenever you got the time, no rush.

[JobacNoor]

What a thread this is.

 

5/5

[Ryzaki]

Level 11, Tier 1 gear, no specialization and no cheesing Ferelden Frostback is about 3 times as hard as any other dragon at relevant level. In case you didn't know.

And I implore you; Stop talking. You are not doing anybody a favor, and you are not helping anybody. 

 

This was before the patch. I haven't tested it after, so I am unaware if there is any change there. I can test it out though!

 

Wait is it easier than the Crestwood dragon? Because I couldn't beat the Crestwood dragon to save my life but I did the Hinterlands one in the first shot.

[Matth85]

Wait is it easier than the Crestwood dragon? Because I couldn't beat the Crestwood dragon to save my life but I did the Hinterlands one in the first shot.

Yes. 

 

No adds.

The lightning attacks deal about no damage, and doesn't sit on the floor.

You most likely got all Tier 2 gear now.

You most likely got specialization now.

 

Just remember you can dispel the AoE lightning circle the hunter does. Then it's cake afterwards! 

[Ryzaki]

Yes. 

 

No adds.

The lightning attacks deal about no damage, and doesn't sit on the floor.

You most likely got all Tier 2 gear now.

You most likely got specialization now.

 

Just remember you can dispel the AoE lightning circle the hunter does. Then it's cake afterwards! 

 

Yeah I didn't have any issues with the adds. I had more difficulty having the AI not kill itself standing right infront of the dragon spewing fireballs.

 

But the lighting attacks were killing me that's what constantly got me til I went screw it...though I didn't know I could dispel that. So let me try that again now. XD

[BLOOD LORDS]

1. Get Viv (or another KE)
2. Max out left side of Knight Enchanter tree
3. Get Barrier and the cool downs and buffs for it
4. Get Fade Step from the cold tree
5. Don't stand in the fire/lightening etc (fade step is awesome for this)
6. Use Barrier on yourself if you have low or no Barrier, otherwise just smack it with spirt blade

 

You need to do all of the steps. The first step is putting Vivienne in your party. Any* other method is going to require tac cam management, which you refuse to do.

 

*Perhaps there is another way, but it would require heavy micro and a good archer build and from this thread you do not seem to have what it takes to do that. Else you wouldn't have made this thread.

[Lucrece]

I'm pretty sure the OP by now must be really satisfied with how much people fell for the troll bait.

[PocketDragon]

Level 11, Tier 1 gear, no specialization and no cheesing Ferelden Frostback is about 3 times as hard as any other dragon at relevant level. In case you didn't know.

And I implore you; Stop talking. You are not doing anybody a favor, and you are not helping anybody. 

 

This was before the patch. I haven't tested it after, so I am unaware if there is any change there. I can test it out though!

 

 

Your strategy works here on the Hinterlands Dragon. Because it has simple phases, because this Dragon dies that quickly between each phase. Hence the noob Dragon, but then you couldn't master it in realtime.

 

Now please go and test your head attack theory on every other Dragon. The error I have committed to is as follows. Not only will the agro be reset from the Tank loosing targetting. The Tank will have to constantly be barriered, as they are constantly inviting the Dragon's most powerful attack on them instead of only occasionally.

 

I can defeat every Tier 1 no armour Tier 2 armour Dragon's in realtime. Takes me between 5-10 minutes, simply by swapping between range to flank and barrier, leaving melee to get on with it.

 

Tier 3 Dragons with Aoe Magicstorms and Armour are annoying but nothing worse then Tank's agro being reset from attacking their heads, also inviting deveasting magic attacks upon them. Requiring barrier's frequently to sustain that might be used better elsewhere.

 

This is a forum get over yourself. Posting a video which should have taken 10 minutes max, played in realtime, and done at level 11. No you are not God

[Matth85]

Whenever you got the time, no rush.

You are correct! This does not work as efficient as before. Using the very same setup as before, I took 30 damage per fireball (This would be countered with just getting a Darkspawn alpha shield at 15% fire resistance!) and 60 per melee attack. In the long run it wasn't much of a difference. The tank needs to chug a potion, or two, instead of none. 

[PocketDragon]

Quite sad, having to speacilised using specific resistances, and gear, before each Tier 1 Dragon fight, quick must go back to Skyhold and re-equip and craft. Ranged damage is not the same as any direct Dragon breath of magic attack. Why would you specialize into particular resistances prior to any Dragon fight? Even once when playing in Nghtmare, and not in realtime? Agreed you cannot bring along a Fire Mage to a Fire Dragon. But fire resist instead of, magic resist? Cmon now most Dragon's are way too easy on NIghtmare

 

But then again they could be. If your Tank gets stuck in ground aoe running back and forth getting all nice and toasty, because they couldn't attack the Dragon's head prior to that specific time of flame attack.

[Matth85]

You're a special snowflake, aren't you?

Okay. I'll take the bait, given you are trying to push it up my ass. 

 

Your strategy works here on the Hinterlands Dragon. Because it has simple phases, because this Dragon dies that quickly between each phase. Hence the noob Dragon, but then you couldn't master it in realtime.

 

All dragons are the same in general. Each dragon got a different special ability. Spawning dragonlings, AoE lightning circles, guard, etc. The strategy I use work for every dragon in every scenario. If you even bothered to see the video, you'd see my damage is pitiful with the gear I got. The dragon doesn't die quick. On the other hand, on my archer I did this in 10 minutes, just as I did the one in Crestwood right afterwards in 9 minutes. A few levels later and every dragon would fall within 5. But that is besides the point.

 

You seem to have a sorespot for tactics. What is your obsession with real time and tactical camera? They are tools -- use them. Do you know why I use it on dragons? High Dragons will, at random intervals, use a wing flapping ability. if you are too far, you won't be able to get close without losing health. This is unnecessary damage. Hence, if you see the video, I move my ranged clumped together to the dragons side all the time. 

 

 

Now please go and test your head attack theory on every other Dragon. The error I have committed to is as follows. Not only will the agro be reset from the Tank loosing targetting. The Tank will have to constantly be barriered, as they are constantly inviting the Dragon's most powerful attack on them instead of only occasionally.

 

It is not my theory, friend. it is your theory. I am not theorising about anything here; Tank attack the head, it's all good. If the tank loses aggro on the head, he attacks the legs. You have your behavior set to "Follow - *TankName*, right? The nearest target is the front leg. As the head goes down, the tank goes back to the head. Go ahead and test it if you don't believe me.

 

I can defeat every Tier 1 no armour Tier 2 armour Dragon's in realtime. Takes me between 5-10 minutes, simply by swapping between range to flank and barrier, leaving melee to get on with it.

 

Show me then. I am interested in seeing a level 11 Ferelden Frostback kill on Nightmare in 5 minutes, or a Hunter kill in 5 minutes (Not using full tier 2 gear).

I have showed you my slowest kill for educational purposed -- it's your turn now. 

 

This is a forum get over yourself. Posting a video which should have taken 10 minutes max, played in realtime, and done at level 11. No you are not God

 

Okay. Show me your kill with the same setup. 2x mages, varric + 1 tank. Before the Templar/Mage quest. No crafting but Tier 1 craft(with tier 1 materials). On nightmare. 

And the last one ... are you butthurt over something? 

 

Quite sad, having to speacilised using specific resistances, and gear, before each Tier 1 Dragon fight, quick must go back to Skyhold and re-equip and craft

 

Why would having resistance be bad? o.O 

Also, I don't got skyhold at this point. It's also the only dragon I do use resistance one; as I get resistance potions recipe at skyhold. 

 

Ranged damage is not the same as any direct Dragon breath of magic attack. Why would you specialize into particular resistances prior to any Dragon fight? Even once when playing in Nghtmare, and not in realtime? Agreed you cannot bring along a Fire Mage to a Fire Dragon. But fire resist instead of, magic resist? Cmon now most Dragon's are way too easy on NIghtmare

 

Magic resistance is limited. Pre-skyhold you can get about 10% or so, compared to the near 60% fire resistance. 

Why would you not be prepared for a fight? You're not a very tactical person I am getting. 

 

Now, can you get your troll-y fingers out of my ass? You are being super annoying. Like a child poking with a stick. The only thing you've done since you came here is talking bullshit and acting like a 5 year old. Can you stop it now? I am trying to help people here! 

 

Geez. This is getting annoying!

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

duck under corresponding cliff when urs on one.

[PocketDragon]

Matth85 I don't swing that way. Although understood, why you are so intent on constipatation..

 

I bring the same party to 95% of fights on Nightmare. I play almost every fight in realtime. My setup x2 Mages and x2 tanks. Any mage I bring is fully spirited with revive, dispel, etc, and barrier upgraded. Solas has the epic CD amulet making him insane. My Inquistor played is either Tank or a Mage.

 

I haven't gotten around to the rogue class, like when having to use in the Envy fight for those doors. I have on occasions used Varric or Sera. They are awful and sometimes wanna melee with a bow. Comparing to mages which seem too maximise their ranges better. When using Mages, all I need to so is swap between them, too flank, or to move. After sending my Warcry, Unbowed Tank in. I don't use K/E because it is just so tedious. I do however use the rogues to lock pick and any releated encounters, Iron bull is a closet Nazi, mostly rude. I won't use any other melee based class apart from my Tanks. Because they use way too many potions and are mostly stupid in realtime play.

 

I only use the broader Magic resistance, instead of the specific restances. Unless upon having those, epic belts, or etc, prior to any direct based encounter. Because there is nothing worse. Then Hey Men look over there it is a fuzzy Dragon, lets all run back to Skyhold. The templar sheild and armour had insane magic resistances, and was all I needed for the Hinterlands Dragon. Rather then crafting some estranged gear which would only fill my up inventory preventing me from further exploration.

 

I killed the Hinterlands Dragon at level 12, although it could have been Level 11, though hadn't I gone somewhere else. Taking all of 10 minutes.

 

Yes I craft my Masterwork Gear with Magic resistance

[Magma_Axis]

Pretty sure the patch did something to 1 damage armor, because now my tank get hits for 45+ damage with physical attack from the front, with 190 armor, Turn the bolt and turn the blade

[Sekou]

I miss when this thread was more about Deelite raging against his most hated companions, the "tactitians screen" (which was really a tac cam complaint) and in regards to his being wiped by, quote, "fire. fireballs fire. and more fire. my characters dancing in the fire after being hit, so on so forth."

[l3loodpimp]

Let's disagree,

 

   You do not need a full tier 2, or fire resistance gear, nor any of the Skyhold specialization to beat the Fereldan Frostback. The fireball can be deflected by shield wall, the adds can be avoided without glitching the dragon (just make sure to burn her leg before the 3rd flying phase and bring her down to 20k health as soon as possible). The only fire damage to watch-out is the fire-breath, even failing at deflecting 1 fireball isn't as deadly as 1 fire breath.

 

 

   For fun, I created a team of level 8 to try out some composition and spec. Out of a dozen attempt at level 8:

* 0% fire resist,

* Armor 216 rating, 165 from the front.

* Abandoned 4 to 5 times,

* Best attempt at level was a little less than 13min

* Worst attempt around 30min.

My tank died a couple time due to firebreath, my main dps was awefull, or just died so I had to deal with 4 wave of dragonling to get to the last flying phase, and at some point I had a terrible position on the cliff so the drake kept on spiting fireball on my team roasting them up...

   The right team, with the right spec can make all the difference. The gear help, but unless you're tackling her with the worst build ever, it can be done without it.

 

   Plus, I want to add that killing this dragon before reaching level 14 is useless since the staff she drop has a level 15 requirement... We have to thanks Bioware for making us working hard to get a staff we cannot use on the first drake, but shitty items on the others.

 

PS: My go to setup would be:

1 Tank (controlled by the character)

1 Support mage (Fade Step + Barrier + Lighting Cage + Improved Energy barrage)

1 DPS Mage (Fade Step + Improve Energy Barrage + Flashpoint and Flashfire + Winter's Grasp)

A 3rd dps mage for more improved energy barrage - or 1 Rogue (preferably DW, but archer can do the trick if you keep leaping shot for lighting cage) 

    Mage would have a better synergy overall and would add another fear for the add phase, but dual wielding rogue really shine below 50% HP.

[Matth85]

 For fun, I created a team of level 8 to try out some composition and spec. Out of a dozen attempt at level 8:

 

The difference between level 8 and level 12 is almost zero pre-skyhold. Given you can get the same armor rating at that point. 

The selling point of fire resistance is two fold:

1) It's easy to get. 15% on shield, 14% on helmet and 30% on belt. Easy to find, no tradeoff in terms of damage.

2) It allows you to fire and forget about your tank. The tank can stand in fire if s/he so desires. Obviously, with some micro management 0 fire resistance is easily done.

 

The only real requirement here is:

A) Be able to kill the adds fast enough. They are level 10, so this is easy.

B The tank must be able to survive. gear and build required.

 

Outside of that you could run in without any gear and build on the remaining party members. It would probably take an hour or two, but doable.

 

   Plus, I want to add that killing this dragon before reaching level 14 is useless since the staff she drop has a level 15 requirement... We have to thanks Bioware for making us working hard to get a staff we cannot use on the first drake, but shitty items on the others.

 

Indeed. It's also confusing the Northern Hunter drops level 11 gear, and he is level 13( I believe). I have no idea what the deal is with Ferelden Frostback! I wonder who their QnA team consist of... 'cause this isn't very well balanced/designed!

 

High Dragons are a fun bunch! Their damage can be avoided, except for the tank, by strategy alone. I'ts a little mini Monster Hunter within Dragon Age

[Rannik]

Your warrior isn't a tank if he's not sword and board. Try again with Cassandra or Blackwall.

 

You can easily tank the Hinterlands dragon (on nightmare) at lvl 15 with a two handed warrior.

[Sevitan7]

You can easily tank the Hinterlands dragon (on nightmare) at lvl 15 with a two handed warrior.

 

Level not important, gear important.

 

 

Pretty sure the patch did something to 1 damage armor, because now my tank get hits for 45+ damage with physical attack from the front, with 190 armor, Turn the bolt and turn the blade

 

You are correct! This does not work as efficient as before. Using the very same setup as before, I took 30 damage per fireball (This would be countered with just getting a Darkspawn alpha shield at 15% fire resistance!) and 60 per melee attack. In the long run it wasn't much of a difference. The tank needs to chug a potion, or two, instead of none. 

 

I knew it, thanks for verifying, I had a similar experience of taking about 50 to 60 per hit. If it's not too much trouble, and you still have that save file, could you check how much damage the dragon does to your back post patch? Seems to be about 100-150 fire damage and 200+ melee damage in the video. I'm just wondering what changed after the patch to see if the dragon is simply doing more damage or if mitigation works differently.

 

I suspect Turn the Bolt and Turn the Blade got ninja nerfd (or more likely ninja fixed) and now work first pre armor mitigation rather than post, this would explain why we are taking more than 1 damage per hit again. I doubt the Dragon got a ninja damage boost.

[Matth85]

I got hit between 200 by fire, and 360-400 with my back turned.

It got a feeling they changed when the passive is calculated (they were calculated before armor. Now it seem they might be after). I also think they changed how the shield mitigation worked. Going from 260 damage to 1 simply due to 30% shield seem weird -- not it went from 360 down to 60. That tells me they have simply changed it like that.

 

So, a balanced patch! I can still take out the dragon without much problems, though my tank needs a barrier from time to time, or chug a potion or two during the encounter.

[Sevitan7]

I got hit between 200 by fire, and 360-400 with my back turned.

 

That seems like a lot more back damage than you get hit in the video. I don't think you get hit for more than 200 fire damage in the back in that video. That kind of implies the dragon got a damage boost? As long as it's the same gear. I don't really expect any real balance changes until the next patch or the one after that, but I'll probably welcome then.

[Matth85]

Okay. Test time! Getting hit 10 times through 4 different tests. Aka: 40 hits. For melee the dragon bites and claws. Whether one is stronger than the other I do not know.

 

Blackwall. 

 

17% melee defense

8% ranged defense

44% Fire resistance

760 health

184 armor 

169 armor front

 

Spoiler

 

Vs fireball:

 

Front to dragon:

 

 1. 31

 2. 33

 3. 34

 4. 29

 5. 28

 6. 31

 7. 30

 8. 29

 9. 34

10. 34

 

Average: 31,3 damage.

 

Back to dragon: 

 

 1. 181

 2. 167

 3. 159

 4. 162

 5. 167

 6. 171

 7. 168

 8. 163

 9. 155

10. 150

 

Average: 164.3 damage.

Vs melee

 

Front to dragon: 

 

  1. 58

  2. 50

  3. 59

  4. 52

  5. 53

  6. 47

  7. 64

  8. 64

  9. 46

10. 54

 

Average: 54,7 damage.

 

Back to dragon:

 

  1. 265

  2. 342

  3. 320

  4. 305

  5. 265

  6. 272

  7. 288

  8. 265

  9. 296

10. 276

 

Average: 289,4 damage

---------------------------------------

 

I havnen't checked how much the damage does without armor/talents, so I got no base to judge from.

[Sevitan7]

Those number seem to coincide with the video on page 4. Turn the Bolt and Turn the Blade likely simply got fixed then. Thanks.

[rumination888]

Quite sad, having to speacilised using specific resistances, and gear, before each Tier 1 Dragon fight, quick must go back to Skyhold and re-equip and craft. Ranged damage is not the same as any direct Dragon breath of magic attack. Why would you specialize into particular resistances prior to any Dragon fight? Even once when playing in Nghtmare, and not in realtime? Agreed you cannot bring along a Fire Mage to a Fire Dragon. But fire resist instead of, magic resist? Cmon now most Dragon's are way too easy on NIghtmare

 

But then again they could be. If your Tank gets stuck in ground aoe running back and forth getting all nice and toasty, because they couldn't attack the Dragon's head prior to that specific time of flame attack.

 

What do you mean "why would you specialize into particular resistances prior to any Dragon fight?" Have you paid attention to the crafting system at all? You don't have a choice between fire resistance or magic resistance. You have a choice between fire resistance, cold resistance, physical ranged resistance, or a chance to cause bleed when you're hit. Magic and fire resistance do not overlap.

[PocketDragon]

That wasn't aimed at me, above? Being honest. No! I really haven't given much thought to this crafting system at all. Why? Because it is in the fracking Undercroft. A separate load from the castle, and it is already painful enough going to the War Table. Yes I know I can use a fort too. if I can be bothered, which I am not. I have crafted some masterworks for my tanks +3 guard on hit yadda yadda, but I normally get better drops....

 

But then again you are wrong. You can specialise, into any specific magic resistance be it Fire, Electric, Cold, Spirit, etc. As well as the broader magic resistance through crafting. I will let you work out how, seen as though your the expert from your above comment. So why I will repeat again. Would you not choose magic resistance over individual magic resistances? Like the Templar armour has in abundance, when having magic resistance. Not Fire, Cold, etc.

 

Yes you can obviously have ranged or melee resistances as well.

 

The reason for little crafting thought too, because the damn broken requistsions keep stealing all my metal. I haven't got enough, tier 4 mats yet, and decent legendary recipes. The recipes are so expensive 7k each the ones I have found, which hasn't been too many. The little dwarf doesn't make me any, she said she would, but still hasn't yet, the liar..

 

Does Varric get a better crossbow? Thinking I found one if i can be bothered going to the Undercroft.