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I can't defeat HInterlands Dragon


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#176
DeeLite808

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Tnanks, will watch the videos, but need to spec out the characters first, which is what I'm looking for right now.

How do you know when you buy shcematics from the merchant that they are tier 3 schematics? i don't see a way to examine them to see what the the tier level is.

 

what default abilities should I have cassandra have? (how do you determine what thei first/default ability is?)

what default abilities should my mage have?



#177
DeeLite808

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so no answer? suggestions?



#178
cJohnOne

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Hey SpaceV3gan do you have to be up close to use  thousand cuts?



#179
Thule99

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okay so can't use TAC camera (it doesn't work for me.  i gave up using it around level 10 since the characters didn't follow my command using it)

what abilities do I put in the slots for Cassandra. I re-specced he (how do I determine the default/first use ability for them?)

edit: found the three idiots. went for tempest. There was nothing on the map or journal to indicate specialization from these nutwipes

 

They won't follow your commands much at all, for as long as you have them to "follow controlled character" in the tactics menu. Did you change that? Set them to "defend (that character name)" that way they don't rush after each other.

Futhermore I advise to turn AI off for ranged characters. Don't worry the characters still function -- only difference is that in combat they will respect much more the hold position command, and you'll need to tell them what skills to use, so you'll need to use tac cam.



#180
cJohnOne

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DeeLite808 I think they want you to take some passive abilities in the Weapon and Shield thing. Bear Mauls the wolve, and turn the blade.  Also War Cry in Vanguard.  If you turn back to page 2 he shows you with little arrows but I guess that's hard to read for you.


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#181
cJohnOne

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Shield Bash does bonus damage against Guard.



#182
ruudg

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i agree that tactics is not what it should be.

 

it took me a lot of micromanaging (manualy controlling all characters in tactics)

to get them to do what i wanted, but it works if you just keep giving them orders.

 

your mage should have a ice staff (staff that does cold damage) and ice spells like winters grasp and ice mine, and the barrier spell.



#183
Capeo

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I still don't get this. You're saying this doesn't work:

Click touchpad: go into tac cam.
Use up and down on directional to choose character.
Move cursor to where you want that character to go and click X.
Now either hold R2 to advance time or simply click the touchpad again to leave tac cam. The characters you told to move will move to those spots.

That's all there is to it. There's no way that doesn't work. And I do not recommend using Defend. When set to Defend they will only attack if the character they are defending has aggro. That can lead to a ton of time with no DPS.

I'm level 16 on my NM run and for S and Gs I decided to try some dragons last night after reading this. I did the Hinterlands, Crestwood and Graves dragons with no issue with:
Tank: Follow themselves
Archer and two mages: Follow Controlled character.

With dragons you want to stay close to them so the vortex doesn't do anything. In fact during the vortex you can completely destroy them. It also helps to keep your three squishier characters grouped so one Dispel will get rid of ground effects. When the dragon rears back to do a breath attack run everyone towards its tail till its done then reposition your three DPS beside it again.

With the Hinterland Dragon the three ranged can still attack it while it's on its perch. When it shoots a fireball just run perpendicular to its path. Everyone will follow you.
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#184
Catastrophy

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Also got problems with the Dragon. I play a Mage and always get oneshot when the Dragon starts flapping wings. Cassandra and Blackwell do well until I start looking for the archer / mage and main character.



#185
PocketDragon

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The tactical cam did something ridiculous to me last night. The Ai insisted on not walking in a straight line to the set waypoint. Instead walked in a complete180 degree semi circle, instead of taking the direct 90 degree approach to set location. The tactical cam blanking every frustrating step. I tried reseting the waypoint upon notice of their approach, which was taking them into the dragon's frontal magic attack on my tank. There was no elavation or obstruction into this act of AI suicide. The waypoint was a predetermined route that could not be altered, defying all logic of their attempted route taken. This was by no means quick, or necessary.  I agree that, often the direct approach, can lead the AI into through ground aoe or into attack. but that waypoint can always be altered by setting another point. This was not the case here, I could not alter the Ai's path of approach, despite all the frustration of trying. There was no obstruction into something, which wasn't direct and couldn't be altered at that time. Admitedly by the time I caught them I had a few feet to move to avoid attack. But ample, time, and space, to clear the dragon attack. Had they chosen not to walk so absurdly, away, from their previous selected course set.

 

To clarify. There was no obstruction or elevation into the first selected path set. I switched to another member after setting their set course, quickly changing back to them for control of casting spells. However this Ai was walking, around, away from the direct route. I set the point again, they continued to walk in a complete flank instead of directly. I tried moving them, back, away to a different point, but they continued to that original selected destination indirectly. The dragon started turning with its frontal magic attacking my tank bringing this Ai directly into fire killing them. The tactical cam blanked every step that this controlled AI took. I had about 10 seconds to move them before the dragon attack, and it was ample time to alter routes, had they obeyed instruction.

 

I had to solo the dragon from 1/4 health with my tank. Because my barrier mage went kamikaze, causing other members to die off without their aid, as they quickly drained my previous unused flasks. Guardian spirit was on CD from the previous Dragon static cage attack, prior to this error. Funny how the dragon didn't even break my tank's guard upon their direct control. Although I could only auto attack as another tatical cam error occured. Where all my tank's abilites were locked, apart from aoe, rift, and taunt



#186
Capeo

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Also got problems with the Dragon. I play a Mage and always get oneshot when the Dragon starts flapping wings. Cassandra and Blackwell do well until I start looking for the archer / mage and main character.


Again, keep everyone close to the dragon. You take no damage and get a bunch of free attacks if you're within the circle of the vortex.

#187
Catastrophy

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Again, keep everyone close to the dragon. You take no damage and get a bunch of free attacks if you're within the circle of the vortex.

That is so counter intuitive, but I'll try it out.



#188
Capeo

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That is so counter intuitive, but I'll try it out.

 

Yup, you only take damage while outside the circle so the more you run from it the more damage you take,  I assume the thinking on the devs part was that this would force the players into the dragon's melee range but since it's so easy for the tank to hold aggro it doesn't matter how close your other party members are.  Just stay pretty close and you're fine.  As soon as you see the dragon start flapping its wings move everyone right up to it and lay into it with everything you got.  Conversely you can also use the break to pop some potions if need be.  Just never be right behind the dragon because of the tail swipe.  A good range when vortex is not taking place is to be about a yard or two from where the vortex circle would be.  Obviously don't be in front of it either unless you're a tank.  


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#189
Thule99

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I still don't get this. You're saying this doesn't work:

Click touchpad: go into tac cam.
Use up and down on directional to choose character.
Move cursor to where you want that character to go and click X.
Now either hold R2 to advance time or simply click the touchpad again to leave tac cam. The characters you told to move will move to those spots.

That's all there is to it. There's no way that doesn't work. And I do not recommend using Defend. When set to Defend they will only attack if the character they are defending has aggro. That can lead to a ton of time with no DPS.

I'm level 16 on my NM run and for S and Gs I decided to try some dragons last night after reading this. I did the Hinterlands, Crestwood and Graves dragons with no issue with:
Tank: Follow themselves
Archer and two mages: Follow Controlled character.

With dragons you want to stay close to them so the vortex doesn't do anything. In fact during the vortex you can completely destroy them. It also helps to keep your three squishier characters grouped so one Dispel will get rid of ground effects. When the dragon rears back to do a breath attack run everyone towards its tail till its done then reposition your three DPS beside it again.

With the Hinterland Dragon the three ranged can still attack it while it's on its perch. When it shoots a fireball just run perpendicular to its path. Everyone will follow you.

I don't know if you use tac cam all the time in combat (I do). I can confirm 100% that characters set to defend themselves readily attack whatever the party is attacking by themselves. Since I also have AI turned off for ranged characters, they only autoattack unless I set what skills to use.

I go like this all the time, and since I am always in tac cam, I see every little detail of what is going on, all characters attack whenever you initiate combat with one of them. Even if they aren't being attacked. (Only exceptions are when they cannot see the enemies, while you force hold)

Before I set it this way, was a nightmare trying to keep them from rushing to the enemies etc. Now, they hold position *almost* all the time. Not perfect, still isn't the Hold Mode of origins, but as close as we can get here.



#190
Capeo

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I don't know if you use tac cam all the time in combat (I do). I can confirm 100% that characters set to defend themselves readily attack whatever the party is attacking by themselves. Since I also have AI turned off for ranged characters, they only autoattack unless I set what skills to use.

I go like this all the time, and since I am always in tac cam, I see every little detail of what is going on, all characters attack whenever you initiate combat with one of them. Even if they aren't being attacked. (Only exceptions are when they cannot see the enemies, while you force hold)

Before I set it this way, was a nightmare trying to keep them from rushing to the enemies etc. Now, they hold position *almost* all the time. Not perfect, still isn't the Hold Mode of origins, but as close as we can get here.

 

I don't use tac cam much except to reposition during dragon fights.  And I play with AI on with Tank and 3 ranged.  I originally had characters set to defend and they would spend a ton of time standing there an not acquiring a new target and the tank wouldn't reacquire a new target unless something aggroed on it first.  I find it much easier to have the tank set to follow itself and my three ranged set to follow controlled character, which is always one of the ranged.  That way you attack something and the other two ranged focus on it too while the tank just does its thing.  That's been my experience with it anyway.  I never have an issue with my ranged charging into melee range.



#191
PocketDragon

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Dunno who keep saying to attack the dragon's head with the tank, but they are killing the dragon way too quickly, from being over leveled. Through gear or level?

 

That tactic is a sure fire way to get your party killed.

 

The dragon will raise on back legs at various times with its head well outside of melee reach, this will cause the tank to turn around ass first losing all targetting and can be one shot from the next dragon attack which is often a frontal magic attack. Attacking the front foot will never lose the tank's agro. Apart from in those aerial phases where you will have to move the party to avoid areial attack and then reacquire the tank's target.

 

By focusing attack with the party on a particular targetted foot, will cause the dragon to topple, where it struggles to get back up, and is killed much quicker than not.

 

This is of course if you don't get any frustrating tactical cam errors.


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#192
SpaceV3gan

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Hey SpaceV3gan do you have to be up close to use thousand cuts?


Not necessarily. Though I believe being in a Flanking position can increase damage.

#193
Matth85

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 Through geared or level?

 

Undergeared and level 10-11 vs level 12 Ferelden Frostback on Nightmare

Solas even had a fire staff. Which I didn't notice. 

Varric hadn't had any Upgrade to Bianca since the start of the game.

No specialization.

I have done this about 5 times. I have recorded it once, and I am doing another playthrough as we speak, ending with the same result.

 

No. The tank attacks the head. Otherwise the dragon spins, which means you must micromanage your ranged more than necessary to avoid being hit by melee attacks, or even worse: Tail swipe. If you take the lazy route and go ranged, you'll get decimated by wing flap. 

 

The rest of the team attacks 1 leg. In a fight I get 1, or 2, knockdowns on a dragon. It's a good breather during a long fight!



#194
Molohk

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Not necessarily. Though I believe being in a Flanking position can increase damage.

This is correct. Thousand Cuts, Hidden Blades and Mark of Doom are all long range attacks and they benefit from stealth and flanking bonuses.



#195
RavenousIron

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Maybe my video can help you?

 

 

I was level 13 at the time, and playing on Hard. Since you have two Mages in your party you should have a much easier time then I did. As you can see, the potions that recover health over time are very important since they help you stay alive when you get close to dying. Also, I'm a Knight Enchanter so I can keep Barrier on myself at all times and use the actual Barrier skill on my party. You can do this as well, since you get a Knight Enchanter yourself (unless you told her not to join you) Vivienne. Basically you can switch out one of your Mages for her, and since you're much higher level then I was you can spec her into a Barrier monster by putting her points into the Spirit Tree. Hopefully this helps. If you have any questions feel free to ask.



#196
BLOOD LORDS

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6 Steps To Beating Any Dragon

1. Get Viv (or another KE)
2. Max out left side of Knight Enchanter tree
3. Get Barrier and the cool downs and buffs for it
4. Get Fade Step from the cold tree
5. Don't stand in the fire/lightening etc (fade step is awesome for this)
6. Use Barrier on yourself if you have low or no Barrier, otherwise just smack it with spirt blade

It might take a while but you will take it down. I use a bunch of lightening spells and Sola's focus 'death shower' ability to speed things up, but the bare bones version will get you through. Sure the rest of your party will die but who cares? I play on hard and I let Solas and Iron Bull go down after I'm down to 6 potions (I save those for Blackwall). Most of my fights end up with me and Blackwall beating the dragon to a pulp as a dynamic duo, then walking over arms overflowing with loot to pick those two supine losers up.

#197
Sylvius the Mad

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This is a failure of the documentation (or lack thereof). You're having trouble learning what the abilities do because BioWare's made almost no effort to tell you.

#198
Matth85

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1. Get Viv (or another KE)

 

 

Di you say cheese?

Spoiler

This is a failure of the documentation (or lack thereof). You're having trouble learning what the abilities do because BioWare's made almost no effort to tell you.

They tell you enough. The only thing they could add is more accurate description, and some numbers here and there. 

It's not like you need to be a rocket scientist to understand what Barrier does.


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#199
BLOOD LORDS

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I've found the description for the spells and skills fine so far. Some of the stats are kind of confusing, but those are not the reason you pick skills- and they seem to do pretty much what they did in the last two games.

 

As far as cheese for KE goes, aren't most of the specializations cheese? Tempest makes you into a god, Assassin lets yourself and your party take the damage far past 11, Rift Mage is an insane AOE powerhouse/debuffer, Reaver does nuts damage and the faster attack speed makes guard on hit even more of a joy, and Champion is the tank of our dreams. I'm just loving playing melee mage, it's nice that 2h warrior is not the only way to play AOE melee. Plus I find range gets boring fast, I'd much rather be in the thick of it.



#200
Corto81

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I've found the description for the spells and skills fine so far. Some of the stats are kind of confusing, but those are not the reason you pick skills- and they seem to do pretty much what they did in the last two games.

 

As far as cheese for KE goes, aren't most of the specializations cheese? Tempest makes you into a god, Assassin lets yourself and your party take the damage far past 11, Rift Mage is an insane AOE powerhouse/debuffer, Reaver does nuts damage and the faster attack speed makes guard on hit even more of a joy, and Champion is the tank of our dreams. I'm just loving playing melee mage, it's nice that 2h warrior is not the only way to play AOE melee. Plus I find range gets boring fast, I'd much rather be in the thick of it.

 

I played NM on DD Tempest Rogue.

It was entirely too stupid. I very rarely used strats or tactics, even on the hardest fights.

Partly because the AI behavior is ridiculously dumb and the tactical cam is useless, you just cheese it.

 

Nightmare strats:

- take decked-out Cass (she'll basically always live)

- take KE Viv

- take your DD Tempest Rogue (control him always, he WILL die from AOEs)

- take one random companion who'll die a LOT

 

You'll kill absolutely everything relatively quickly and with ease.

Nothing Nightmarish about it.


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