284 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Di you say cheese?

Spoiler

They tell you enough. The only thing they could add is more accurate description, and some numbers here and there.

They should include enough numbers and formulae so that I could do all the in-combat calculations myself.

But my bigger concern is that the information is not all together. In a book or table we'd be able to see more at once. Learning about how much extra damage Static Cage does requires that you go looking for that specific knowledge, rather than just reading through it all (like a textbook).

[DeeLite808]

6 Steps To Beating Any Dragon

1. Get Viv (or another KE)
2. Max out left side of Knight Enchanter tree
3. Get Barrier and the cool downs and buffs for it
4. Get Fade Step from the cold tree
5. Don't stand in the fire/lightening etc (fade step is awesome for this)
6. Use Barrier on yourself if you have low or no Barrier, otherwise just smack it with spirt blade

It might take a while but you will take it down. I use a bunch of lightening spells and Sola's focus 'death shower' ability to speed things up, but the bare bones version will get you through. Sure the rest of your party will die but who cares? I play on hard and I let Solas and Iron Bull go down after I'm down to 6 potions (I save those for Blackwall). Most of my fights end up with me and Blackwall beating the dragon to a pulp as a dynamic duo, then walking over arms overflowing with loot to pick those two supine losers up.

how do I make it soe that my characters do this on their own. I hate micro managing my characters. I have to concentrate on keeping my ass alive to worry about them not doing their job. Im an archer, so I need to have my mages work their spells on their own.

[theruinerisin]

Blackwall is too weak right now, and Cassandra dies as soon as she attempts an attack on the dragon.

 

70+ hours into the game and I only have dragons to fight. 

 

i refuse to get involved in the dragon strategy because jesus christ, but you said you have wicked hearts and here lies the abyss - those are huge quests btw - and you'll get more story/companion quests after you finish both of those. you dont ONLY have dragons left, you actually have a good amount to do still if you want to go back and do the dragons later since you're struggling.

[BLOOD LORDS]

I don't think you understand what I'm telling you to do. Maybe I should have been more clear. You should play as Vivinne, not your archer. Your Inquisitor and other two party members are going to die. You can just solo the dragon with Vivinne*.

*I have done this in Hard before. All you need to do is keep your barrier up. How to do that is covered in steps 5 and 6 of my guide.

(Also how is you Blackwall bad? Does he just have bad gear? Because at the level you are at he should be powerful enough to withstand a dragon, with a decent build.)

[DeeLite808]

I don't think you understand what I'm telling you to do. Maybe I should have been more clear. You should play as Vivinne, not your archer. Your Inquisitor and other two party members are going to die. You can just solo the dragon with Vivinne*.

*I have done this in Hard before. All you need to do is keep your barrier up. How to do that is covered in steps 5 and 6 of my guide.

(Also how is you Blackwall bad? Does he just have bad gear? Because at the level you are at he should be powerful enough to withstand a dragon, with a decent build.)

dont have vivienne becuase I didn't know she was recruit-able

 

blackwell is bland so I never used him so never bothered to spec him or give him armor

Seriously, I only use 4 characters out of the party (because everyone else is just boring). Iron Bull, Dorian, Solas and from time to time Cassandra.

I also would like to try and defeat a dragon using my inquisitor, not a party member (seeing as if I wanted to play as a mage, I would have chosen a mage)

[Catastrophy]

Yup, you only take damage while outside the circle so the more you run from it the more damage you take,  I assume the thinking on the devs part was that this would force the players into the dragon's melee range but since it's so easy for the tank to hold aggro it doesn't matter how close your other party members are.  Just stay pretty close and you're fine.  As soon as you see the dragon start flapping its wings move everyone right up to it and lay into it with everything you got.  Conversely you can also use the break to pop some potions if need be.  Just never be right behind the dragon because of the tail swipe.  A good range when vortex is not taking place is to be about a yard or two from where the vortex circle would be.  Obviously don't be in front of it either unless you're a tank.  

it worked well - I even managed to do the fight despite hitting the friggin' console and tac cam keys occasionally.

[hwlrmnky]

dont have vivienne becuase I didn't know she was recruit-able
 
(Snip)
I also would like to try and defeat a dragon using my inquisitor, not a party member (seeing as if I wanted to play as a mage, I would have chosen a mage)

I am a strong proponent of the "play however pleases you" school of gaming but this means a lot of players won't have suggestions you will use. I, for example, control all four slots in a dragon fight; I honestly never considered playing with your preferences.

Anyway, I just am getting caught up with the thread and I appreciate the good information here. There are some tips for a dragon I haven't faced yet here.

[Matth85]

I also would like to try and defeat a dragon using my inquisitor, not a party member (seeing as if I wanted to play as a mage, I would have chosen a mage)

 

This would be fine if:

- You actually managed to kill the dragon.

- The AI wasn't stupid.

- The game was made for it.

 

You now have a 9-pages-thread on not being able to kill it. You are in no position to decide how you want to kill the dragon. You either do as you need to, to kill it, or you don't. Or you roll it down to casual. Whatever you want. Killing a dragon requires tactic(to a point) and being able to read the battlefield. It's a mini-version of my all time favorite PsP/Wii game: Monster Hunter! Bit I digress: If you want to kill it via a specific way, you firsdt need to be able to understand the fight. In the end, you can solo a dragon taking no damage. Is it easy? Not unless you are dedicated to understanding the game. 

 

So, stop this: "I want to kill it like this!". You are shooting yourself in the leg, and have been venting frustration for days now because of it. Just do as you are told. If you can't kill the dragon, you can't kill it. As Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result". 

 

- Set everybody to have reserved potions: all, but the tank who have 0. If somebody neds to be healed, you do it manually.

- Hold ranged out of melee, to her side, but close enough so you can get them all in, via tactical camera, as she starts wing flapping.

- Get the tank to hit her head. The tank wears a shield. 

- Keep positioning the ranged untill the dragon fly, at which you hid under one of the cliffs to avoid the fireballs.

- Get everybody out as she lands. There is a huge chance the next attack is Wing Flap, which can kill your whole team.

- Repeat until 50% at which dragonlings can spawn. All dps on them. They spawn on top of the cliffs on either side, and spawn in a group of 2-4.

- At 25% she lands on the platform above. If you are quick up you can avoid the incoming dragonlings. This area is not big, so send your tank in first and keep your dps at the entrance of the area. If she wing flaps or does anything that can harm your ranged, just move them down the slope

- Collect loot.

 

I'll render out my mage kill video, as it is the longest kill which shows the whole spectre of tactics. No potions upgrade, no tonics or regeneration potions(I think...). No specialization or cheesy tactics. Just showing how to deal with every mechanic. Tact Cam is a must. 

And before you start yelling at me again: No, I don't do this to show off or to be condescending. I want to help you, but you are making it rather hard. I am not proving I am good, or better than anybody, as you seem to think. I am doing it to show a tactic that works on the highest difficulty in lower gear, hence it should work for you. Okay? No rage-attack on me this time? Cool.

[PocketDragon]

Do not, repeat not! Get the the TANK to hit the Dragon's head.

 

Watch the Dragon raise on it's hind legs before wing bluff, or to cast any frontal magic blasts. Reseting all of the Tank's agro and targetting. Wing bluff isn't a good example, because all agro is drawn towards the dragon and the Tank easily reacquires a target, but the point is valid.

 

During this miliscecond, seconds. Watch the Tank turn ass first to the dragon. Either walking back to your controlled AI, if your options aren't defined, or simply not attacking the Dragon. Happens every time! Yes you can reacquire the Dragon's head target, hopefully in time to cast a barrier, preventing them from losing total guard, or from being one shot. The Dragon's head is often obscured by a wonky tactical cam requiring futher manual commands.

 

The Tank if losing targetting won't return to attack that head again, it will however attack the feet, after this time loss to regain that agro lost. After losing that agro and wasting tactical time. Also this targetting which will lose target, can create specific tactical cam errors, which we are blighted with. Where the AI get locked cannot be controlled, or their commands aren't available despite not be on CD, or they do nothing, apart from moonwalk.

 

In short it is absolutely futile to attack the Dragon head with the Tank. Because that head will go outside of the melee's targetting range, reseting their targetting, casters aren't affected by this. Although everyone is affected in the Dragon's aerial phases.

 

I play a lot in real time, due to way too many errors with the tactical cam. I would not even consider having to reset my targets, because I cannot quickly change between party members to re-postion them.

[Matth85]

Do not, repeat not! Get the the TANK to hit the Dragon's head.

 

Negative.

 

A tank with taunt does not lose aggro. The tank also doesn't change target randomly. My 9 Ferelden Frostback kill pre specialization, and about 30 overall High Dragon kills, disagrees with this.

[PocketDragon]

Negative.

 

A tank with taunt does not lose aggro. The tank also doesn't change target randomly. My 9 Ferelden Frostback kill pre specialization, and about 30 overall High Dragon kills, disagrees with this.

 

If a target cannot be attack after you have selected out the 5 targets available a specific target to attack upon input. What do you think will happen, when that target cannot be physically attacked? An error will obviously occur! The taunt is still on the Tank no dispute. The Dragon is still attacking the Tank as stated. But the Tank will break from the Dragon's agro, because it now has nothing to attack. turning its ass to the Dragon, or attacking nothing, before finally reacquiring a new target the Dragon's feet. In these milseconds, seconds it can be quite fatal for that Tank.

 

It is physic's, be it an error, but it happens more then it doesn't. Because you have chosen to attacking something that cannot be attacked by melee at that time.

[Matth85]

If a target cannot be attack after you have selected out the 5 targets available a specific target to attack upon input. What do you think will happen, when that target cannot be physically attacked? An error will obviously occur! The taunt is still on the Tank no dispute. The Dragon is still attacking the Tank as stated. But the Tank will break from the Dragon's agro, because it now has nothing to attack. turning its ass to the Dragon, or attacking nothing, before finally reacquiring a new target the Dragon's feet. In these milseconds, seconds it can be quite fatal for that Tank.

 

It is physic's, be it an error, but it happens more then it doesn't. Because you have chosen to attacking something that cannot be attacked by melee at that time.

Which doesn't matter too much. Even if the tank doesn't got aggro -- as long as s/he is in melee, the dragon will melee. No ranged will be targeted by fireball. So the whole aggro business isn't problemastic.

 

The tank will, obviously, be a moron an turn its back and get hit for half a million every once in a while. Not a problem though. A well-balanced tank can take about 4 direct back-hits before chugging a potions. 

 

Also, the tank does target the front leg if there are no possibilities to attack the head. Which means he/her will have his/her shield planted the right way. If not, you can manually control or manually choose target via tactical camera. It takes approximately 0.5 seconds to get in Tact cam and assign the tank to the head.

[PocketDragon]

Listen to yourself, have you even played any of the dragon fights?

 

Attacking the head with the Tank is pointless, because the head will go outside of melee range.

 

Do you agree that the Dragon's head will not be able to physically be connected with from a melee attack at various times?

 

Now consider what will happen when there is no target for your Tank to attack? The target that you have preselected upon input. How long does it takes for that Tank to rereact? It takes time. That Tank will now literally show the Dragon it's ass before reattacking a foot, when that target has reset, going out of range and cannot be attacked.

 

Sometimes it takes a lot longer then seconds. As an example. The Dragon is moving, jumping, it goes to a further part of the combat zone. The first attack upon the Dragon's repositioning, is to raise itself on it's hindlegs then blast out magic. The Tank assumed to be automatically attacking the Dragon, is now on the other side of the screen standing away from the target. The Tank is happily slashing away, then all of a sudden starts running back to other party members.

 

The error happens everytime when attacking the head, yes there are seconds milsceconds to react, when this occurs, often it is not enough to generate problems, but these problems happen. In realtime it can be ever more fatal. Sometimes agreed the tank reacquires a target instantly, but more often it will not.

 

Consider. When your Tank is fully flanked, then a magic attack happens. Their guard is now one shot broken, and if they haven't got much of a guard, so is Tank. This is basic gameplay mechanics, which is why there is a Rogue class and those flanking mechanics.

 

All of this because you have attacked a target, which will likely see errors, because it cannot be fully targetted by melee.

 

I am done with this circular argument..

[Matth85]

Listen to yourself, have you even played any of the dragon fights?

 

I ask the same....

 

tacking the head with the Tank is pointless, because the head will go outside of melee range.

 

Once in a while. What's the problem?

 

Do you agree that the head will not be able to physically be connected with from a melee attack at various times?

 

Why is that a problem? Your tank is not a dps. If the tank is not tanking, the dragon is not attacking. yey!

 

Now consider what will happen when there is no target for your tank to attack that you have preselected upon input. How long it takes for that tank to react? It takes time and that tank will literally show the Dragon it's ass before reattacking a foot.

 

The tank stands like an idiot, then attacks whatever is attacking him/her. Often that is a claw. At worse the guard, which is full, is dumped to about 10%. Then the tank reacts. yey!

 

Consider when your tank is fully flanked, then a magic attack happens, that guard is one shot broken, and if you haven't got much of a guard, so is your tank. This is basic  game mechanics, which is why there is a rogue class and flanking mechanics.

 

You do know there are a passive that nulifies flank? The only negative effect from showing your back is that you are not blocking -- but you get 20% more armor as well thanks to the passive in vanguard. At worse I got hit from 160 fireball, or 270 melee attack. My max health is generally 800. Guard is generally full. So, at worst I lose 60 health. At best I lose the majority of my guard. Oh no!

 

I am done with this circular argument..

 

Cool! So am I. 

[hwlrmnky]

All of which goes to show there's more than one way to kill a dragon. The more some of you argue, the more some of us learn.

[Matth85]

 

That's how I deal with him(or her?..).

 

Undergeared, no specialization, on nightmare, a level underneath the dragon, no cheesy tactics and using the worst class for this at this point. 

[MacroN0va]

I had far, far more trouble with Hinterlands dragon, than with Crestwood one. Her fireballs are just brutal. 

This! This is VERY accurate. I beat the Crestwood dragon my first try on hard. It took a few potions to figure out the mechanics, but then I got it and the fight felt fair. It was an epic fun battle and it felt glorious.

 

Then i went to the Hinterlands dragon. I also beat it my first try on hard, but it was just an exercise in frustration! The fireballs come to quickly too be avoided by moving. I probably used more potions getting to the fight than in the fight itself! Getting bombarded by them while fighting the dragonlings was not fun. Yeah, yeah, barrier, but with only one mage, the fireball damage outspams my barriers. It was so frustrating to know that a fireball was coming, telling everyone to move, and get hit anyway. 

[PocketDragon]

A 26 minute video, on how not too attack the noob dragon, from somebody who cannot use the edit function coherently.

 

The Tank's agro will reset. Because the Dragon's head will be outside of melee range, it is a rather simple mechanic. Just like when the melee are first to stop attacking when a Dragon flies up into the air. They run right over to the casters who are still firing unless you are in direct control of them.

 

When a Tank has not got any target to attack, this will reset the Tank's agro, they then have to reacquire a new target. They acquire a new target on a Dragon from other party members attacks, because they are set as a defensive class. Although obviously if you are in control of them. When a target has been reset, because it cannot be physically hit by melee, the tank will reacquire a new target the Dragon feet, not the head. This can be fatal, taking time, or manually have to be retargetted, as explained.

 

I am talking to somebody whose basic logic is flawed. Who is obviously constantly changing their Tank's targetting and never noticing that their Tank will not always attack the head, or that the Tank's agro had even been reset. Do a proper Dragon next time, that has no real phases, and a ton of guard like the Storm Coast.

 

I agree. The Tank will often choose their own targets, because their melee swings will undoubtely have a big hit box, hitting leg, body, head. Only after selecting the intial foot to attack. Because if you start with the head it will forcibly reset all of the Tank's agro. Every single time!

[cJohnOne]

Hmmm I've avoided using Tac cam.  I guess I'll have to press t and start learning it, ugh.

[Matth85]

A 26 minute video, on how not too attack the noob dragon, from somebody who cannot use the edit function coherently.

 

The Tank's agro will reset. Because the Dragon's head will be outside of melee range, it is a rather simple mechanic. Just like when the melee are first to stop attacking when a Dragon flies up into the air. They run right over to the casters who are still firing unless you are in direct control of them.

 

When a Tank has not got any target to attack, this will reset the Tank's agro, they then have to reacquire a new target. They acquire a new target from other party members attacks, because they are set as a defensive class. When a target has been reset, because it cannot be physically hit by melee, the tank will reacquire a new target the Dragon feet, not the head. This can be fatal, taking time, or manually have to be retargetted, as explained.

 

I am talking to somebody whose basic logic is flawed. Who is obviously constantly changing their Tank's targetting and never noticing that their Tank will not always attack the head, or that the Tank's agro had even been reset. Do a proper Dragon next time, that has no real phases, and a ton of guard like the Storm Coast.

 

I agree. The Tank will often choose their own targets, because their melee swings will undoubtely have a big hit box, hitting leg, body, head. Only after selecting the intial foot to attack. Because if you start with the head it will forcibly reset all of the Tank's agro. Every single time!

Yeah. No. 

[PocketDragon]

Oh yea un huh....... Great that you said yes, but sadly your mind is still confused, let me guess your error.

 

I can only imagine your No. Cannot coherently speak, giving yea/no answer. Or No. Cannot make another video taking 3x times that prolonged duration, on another Dragon, like, the Storm Coast Dragon. Or No. Cannot comprehensibly understand this game's mechanics?

 

Either way I will leave you befuddled

[Matth85]

Oh yea un huh....... Great that you said yes, but sadly your mind is still confused, let me guess your error.

 

I can only imagine your No. Cannot coherently speak, giving yea/no answer. Or No. Cannot make another video taking 3x times that prolonged duration, on another Dragon, like, the Storm Coast Dragon. Or No. Cannot comprehensibly understand this game's mechanics?

 

Either way I will leave you befuddled

I don't get why you are this hostile, and try to offend me? Have I wronged you in any way?

Either way, you are irrelevant. The video is what it is, and show what is required. It's not for you anyways. I will leave you to whatever dark cave you are sitting in, being angry upon the world. Have a nice day, angry stranger!

[PocketDragon]

No hostility from myself, yet you have openily shamed that word in abusive tones, from the start of dialogue. Later mismatching and rephrasing my conversation to your lack of comprehension.

 

I am not angry at the world, although you have just given me cause to be at your ignorance.

 

Your video proves it took you 26minutes to defeat the easiest dragon, that must make you important enough not to be polite, have a shiny gold star.....

[Sevitan7]

How so? The tankiness of a tank isn't based on their specialization. By level 8, non specialization tier 1 gear + tier 2 purple armor, any tank gets hit by a maximum of 1 damage, as seen here. 

Just get the bull a 1h + shield and get the passives. You're then good to go!

 

Was this before patch? I just killed that dragon again at 12, pretty sure had more armor and turn the blade but still took more than 1 from it's physical attacks. I had no fire resistance but that should not affect the physical attacks. Wondering if they changed something between patches.

 

Also, fighting that dragon without roll/evade/fade step sucks. Still feel those are a waste of a slot in most cases but they certainly help fighting dragons with crap gear.

[Matth85]

Your video proves it took you 26minutes to defeat the easiest dragon, that must make you important enough not to be polite, have a shiny gold star....

 

Level 11, Tier 1 gear, no specialization and no cheesing Ferelden Frostback is about 3 times as hard as any other dragon at relevant level. In case you didn't know.

And I implore you; Stop talking. You are not doing anybody a favor, and you are not helping anybody. 

 

Was this before patch? I just killed that dragon again at 12, pretty sure had more armor and turn the blade but still took more than 1 from it's physical attacks. I had no fire resistance but that should not affect the physical attacks. Wondering if they changed something between patches.

 

Also, fighting that dragon without roll/evade/fade step sucks. Still feel those are a waste of a slot in most cases but they certainly help fighting dragons with crap gear.

This was before the patch. I haven't tested it after, so I am unaware if there is any change there. I can test it out though!