Leliana only does that as a result of certain choices. She can just as easily not. So my character had no problems with that since she didn't do it.
I'm not saying that my inquisitor didn't send him to the wardens to atone, just that he found it unforgivable on a personal level. I don't expect all my inquisitors will feel the same.
I may be speaking out of turn here since I haven't QUITE experienced all the romances yet (28 people stopped reading here) but I don't see how Sera's romance could possibly top what I just witnessed with Blackwall's romance apex. This is....impressive. Seriously impressive. I am almost kind of sad that even Cassandra's romance pales in comparison to this man's. Let me elaborate on this.
For Cassandra, it's basically breaking her hard outer shell. Then you romance her in the most medieval, chivalrous manner possible-by reading her a love poem on one knee and then lying with her in an open field. That was great. But the problem with it is....you don't really get to steer the outcome of it apart from choosing whether she becomes divine or not. I mean, you can choose to break up with her but not in a meaningful way. (more on that later)
Also, after you do the deed with her, the romance just sort of comes to a screeching halt. Afterwards, you can walk up to her intermittently and ask to mack out in the blacksmith's but other than that....it just fizzles out. Whereas there's content after the apex in Blackwall's romance.
In addition, unlike some of the other romances, Blackwall's carries an intense amount of gravitas, emotion, and pathos. You find out Blackwall lied to you about his identity and can choose to be the jilted lover, the incredulous but still loving soul mate, or the "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" archetype. This plays out beautifully in the jail cell and the interaction I saw between my Qunari female and Blackwall was just....stunning. It tugged at the heart strings. I NOPE'd so hard at some of the conversation choices I could have picked in response to him and I doubt I will ever be able to do that but that's what's so great about it! The romance carried WEIGHT. It didn't just allow me to walk up to Blackwall while he was in the barn and say "let's break up."
It allowed me to discontinue the romance in a meaningful, RPG-style manner. By giving me choices through a narrative! I could either let him ROT in the jail cell, free him from the prison, shack back up with him, free him AND shack back up with him, or free him but reject his heartfelt plea! These are the kinds of options we need to be seeing more of BioWare!
Then we have....romances like Cassandra...where there is not much conflict or....scenes where she is in deep emotional distress (scene with her confronting Varric comes close but not quite) throughout said romance. You just flirt, have sex, and then she either becomes divine and dumps your sorry ass or doesn't become divine and....maybe...stays with you forever...perhaps?
I haven't done this romance, but yes, these choices are the kind of thing that made BioWare RPGs famous and loved.
And now we are reduced to
Otherwise, will not buy.
Blackwall did spout a lot of the typical "manpain" phrases (I don't deserve you, I'm not worthy of you, etc.), but Blackwall's "manpain" was pretty unique. With a lot of the "manpain" types, you get dudes who are victims of circumstance and who were powerless and that's why they brood. But with Blackwall, you instead find a man who hates himself intensely because he truly was a monster, not because he was like the above-mentioned victims of circumstance. He was the guy who made these victims of circumstance -- he was the villain.
But now, especially with the light of the Inquisitor (romanced or not) in his life, he truly wants to change his ways and do things right. The questions you are posed with: Is it too late for him to atone? Is his death satisfactory? Or can he be redeemed? It's a really awesome narrative to me.
What I also like the best about the Blackwall romance arc in light of his character....is that YOU are not the one fixing him/making him see the error of his ways....he's already trying to atone on his own for what he did, he's spent the last how long after adopting the mantle of Blackwall trying to live up to the 'protect the innocents at the cost of your own life' heroic ideal thath he thinks the Wardens embody.....He joins the Inquisition to further that atonement.....but thenstuff happens....and once called to the carpet, he's fully willing to own up to his crime and have a date with the hangman's noose. He's trying to make himself into a better man, and erase the man he was.
But then, as the Quizzy, you can come swopping in and do somethiong to him. You take that chance away from him to let him pay for his crimes under his own name in the way that is within the law, and the way he's okay with. You can make him pay and be petty/vengeful about it, make him pay by dictating what he's going to do with his future, or by setting him free and allowing him to atone/continue on in his name instead of under someone elses.
I just love all the twists to his character arc.
I haven't done this romance, but yes, these choices are the kind of thing that made BioWare RPGs famous and loved.
And now we are reduced to *spoiler removed* Really, BioWare? Even after you gave us the ability to stay with a possessed terrorist dude who blows up a chantry? Yes, I'm still furious, but I am holding out for a DLC that brings player choice back.
Otherwise, will not buy.
So, characters having their own agenda/decisions aren't valid?
So, characters having their own agenda/decisions aren't valid?
If a character's agenda is so counter to a romance, then that romance should not be included. Otherwise it is nothing but a movie, not an interactive game.
People don't generally play games for no win situations.
If a character's agenda is so counter to a romance, then that romance should not be included. Otherwise it is nothing but a movie, not an interactive game.
People don't generally play games for no win situations.
I woudn't call it lose/lose though, they might get back together! It's like in Origins, Morrigan leaves no matter what, but you got witch hunt, just wait for wolf hunt. 
I haven't done this romance, but yes, these choices are the kind of thing that made BioWare RPGs famous and loved.
And now we are reduced to
SpoilerReally, BioWare? Even after you gave us the ability to stay with a possessed terrorist dude who blows up a chantry? Yes, I'm still furious, but I am holding out for a DLC that brings player choice back.
Otherwise, will not buy.
This is clearly a plot point given
The story made you feel something and that means it worked. I can't watch Old Yeller because I can't deal with how it makes me feel. That doesn't mean that it souldn't exist for those who can
I woudn't call it lose/lose though, they might get back together! It's like in Origins, Morrigan leaves no matter what, but you got witch hunt, just wait for wolf hunt.
That's a big-ass *might*. I'm speaking of the way it stands now. Not good, and not a good practice, in my opinion. Closure to romances should not be cash-gated.
This is clearly a plot point given
Spoilerand I'm guessing that wouldn't work with a continuing romance other than to ignore it entirely, which wouldn't be a way they'd want to go. Besides, this isn't the first time hearts have been broken in DA because companions have their own strong beliefs and I doubt it will be the last. This makes for much more interesting story telling rather than having them be entirely malleable because the PC is so special.
The story made you feel something and that means it worked. I can't watch Old Yeller because I can't deal with how it makes me feel. That doesn't mean that it souldn't exist for those who can
Point, missing it. "Old Yeller" is a MOVIE.
If a character's agenda is so counter to a romance, then that romance should not be included. Otherwise it is nothing but a movie, not an interactive game.
People don't generally play games for no win situations.
Can you elaborate on your first point about how it's a movie and not an interactive game?
While I haven't seen all of the romance arcs in game, I did know about them and specifically built my character to romance Solas because it seemed fascinating within the scope of the entire game. I really enjoyed it and felt it made for an interesting narrative for the game. I don't get the feeling that it's like a movie any moreso than other stuff, however, so I need some help understanding your position.
While I haven't seen all of the romance arcs in game, I did know about them and specifically built my character to romance Solas because it seemed fascinating within the scope of the entire game. I really enjoyed it and felt it made for an interesting narrative for the game.
So you ended up romancing Solas, eh? I was wondering when I heard you talking about making a female Lavellan PC.
Did you build your character specifically to romance Solas based on what you'd heard about it?
So you ended up romancing Solas, eh? I was wondering when I heard you talking about making a female Lavellan PC.
Did you build your character specifically to romance Solas based on what you'd heard about it?
It was definitely to keep that option open, yes. I didn't rigidly go into it that way, but there was definitely a bias in his favour. In the end the characters my character found an attraction towards were Dorian and Solas.
It was definitely to keep that option open, yes. I didn't rigidly go into it that way, but there was definitely a bias in his favour. In the end the characters my character found an attraction towards were Dorian and Solas.
Wow, your character sounds a lot like mine. 
Solas was her LI and Dorian was her flirtbuddy/BFF. And even though it made no sense, I loved rolling a party of Dorian, Solas, and Vivienne while just wandering around. For four mages we did surprisingly well.
Not every romance has to end how you, the player, dictates. NPCs are allowed to have their own agendas too or else all they are is toys for your express pleasure. If you played ME, you know that Jacob dumped Shepard. There was no way to continue that romance. And of course the Quizzie can dump every single NPC, so why should the Quizzie be the only one with that option? Just because you control the Quizzie?
Sometimes, things don't end well and that's the natural progression and outcome of a story even if you get to have to some player agency to choose. Are you equally upset that you didn't get both the Templars AND the mages?
Blackwall did spout a lot of the typical "manpain" phrases (I don't deserve you, I'm not worthy of you, etc.), but Blackwall's "manpain" was pretty unique. With a lot of the "manpain" types, you get dudes who are victims of circumstance and who were powerless and that's why they brood. But with Blackwall, you instead find a man who hates himself intensely because he truly was a monster, not because he was like the above-mentioned victims of circumstance. He was the guy who made these victims of circumstance -- he was the villain.
But now, especially with the light of the Inquisitor (romanced or not) in his life, he truly wants to change his ways and do things right. The questions you are posed with: Is it too late for him to atone? Is his death satisfactory? Or can he be redeemed? It's a really awesome narrative to me.
Even though my inquisitor couldn't find it in himself to get past it, and was tempted for a moment to let him hang, He did believe that Blackwall's wish to atone was sincere. He didn't get how a man that could do those things could get to that point (and maybe I missed some dialogue, because I don't know either. People aren't usually capable of that degree of change) but he believed it was true. Thing is, even if he hadn't, he wouldn't really have let him hang in Orlais. The regret was sincere and he'd served the inquisition well, so regardless of personal feelings, he got that chance.
Note: Well...crap. I haven't played mass effect, but I was planning to. A friend insists. Didn't expect Mass effect spoilers here, lol.
Not every romance has to end how you, the player, dictates. NPCs are allowed to have their own agendas too or else all they are is toys for your express pleasure. If you played ME, you know that Jacob dumped Shepard. There was no way to continue that romance. And of course the Quizzie can dump every single NPC, so why should the Quizzie be the only one with that option? Just because you control the Quizzie?
Sometimes, things don't end well and that's the natural progression and outcome of a story even if you get to have to some player agency to choose. Are you equally upset that you didn't get both the Templars AND the mages?
I personally don't mind how it went, but I think that's based on my (possibly mistaken) assumption that we'll get some sort of closure for the relationship in the future. It was beautifully-done, probably my favourite Bioware romance ever after Garrus. However it definitely felt like it didn't have an ending. That stinger after the credits both puts the whole relationship in a new light and also waves a great big "Find out next time!" sign in your face. The biggest thing I was dissatisfied with was that I have more information than my Inquisitor does, and I have no idea how she'd ever find out unless we get some sort of follow-up.
On the complaints about the lack of choice, I think it's more a lack of information. You never actually get to find out what's up with Solas during the game, and thus you can't make a choice. He does his own thing, and you can't really control that. I can see us potentially having a choice related to the relationship in the future, provided we get to meet him again with our Inquisitor.
Can you elaborate on your first point about how it's a movie and not an interactive game?
While I haven't seen all of the romance arcs in game, I did know about them and specifically built my character to romance Solas because it seemed fascinating within the scope of the entire game. I really enjoyed it and felt it made for an interesting narrative for the game. I don't get the feeling that it's like a movie any moreso than other stuff, however, so I need some help understanding your position.
I really don't understand the question. Can you not see the difference between having a story play out in front of you as dictated by the writers and playing a game where every choice you make is your own? Really?
I'm not trying to be snarky here, but I really don't appreciate someone pretending to be clueless just to prove his point.
Take every other romance in the other DA games (except Morrigan, though players had their choices in Witch Hunt). Shall I write them out for you? I guess it's necessary.
Alistair (king) -- can become mistress or queen, if you don't like being his mistress, you can roll another race or leave him as a Warden
Zevran -- he will stay or attack, if you don't like him attacking, you can go back to a prior save and get his approval up
Leliana -- like Zevran, related to approval
Morrigan (with Witch Hunt) -- you can stay with her, attack her, or leave her
Anders -- even if you take out the friendmance or rivalmance options, which are not in the other games, you can choose to kill him or stay with him at the end
Fenris -- related to approval
Merrill -- related to approval
Isabela -- related to approval, though it is gated by how you treat her in the beginning of the game, still, if you don't like what you got you can roll back
I can't comment on the other romances, because I haven't done them, but I understand that some are simply approval-based, and some have crisis points. But there is always a choice!
And then there's Solas. Yes, I know he plays a big part in the game, and I know that his character is not simple by any means. However, the protag is doomed to just sit there and suck it up. Lavellan has no choice but to react. Reacting is not a choice!
Not every romance has to end how you, the player, dictates. NPCs are allowed to have their own agendas too or else all they are is toys for your express pleasure. If you played ME, you know that Jacob dumped Shepard. There was no way to continue that romance. And of course the Quizzie can dump every single NPC, so why should the Quizzie be the only one with that option? Just because you control the Quizzie?
Sometimes, things don't end well and that's the natural progression and outcome of a story even if you get to have to some player agency to choose. Are you equally upset that you didn't get both the Templars AND the mages?
And that was also horrible, and the fans hated it. Same for Thane.
And then there's Solas. Yes, I know he plays a big part in the game, and I know that his character is not simple by any means. However, the protag is doomed to just sit there and suck it up. Lavellan has no choice but to react. Reacting is not a choice!
But she does have the ability to respond to his actions. ...She just can't make him stay. But choosing to be angry or unflappable or heartbroken is a choice. You can't make someone continue with a relationship.
Way to get your points in front of the writers...be super snarky to Bioware folks asking about them.... That will achieve great things.
Personally, I like it that the companions have such well developed personalities and goals that they aren't your lapdog. If you could completely control their actions and feelings, there wouldn't be a whole lot of point talking to them.
But she does have the ability to respond to his actions. ...She just can't make him stay. But choosing to be angry or unflappable or heartbroken is a choice. You can't make someone continue with a relationship.
I'm sorry, I disagree. Compared to what every other romance in the game gets, it's a non-choice.
And yes, I can just go off and romance somebody else (yeah, I know that excuse is coming).
Is this what you want, people? What if some day BioWare decides that all romances must be predetermined and you are only allowed to react? Do you really want that?
I'm sorry, I disagree. Compared to what every other romance in the game gets, it's a non-choice.
But Solas's romance isn't "every other romance in the game". There are certain extenuating circumstances at play here. I mean, I'm hoping for a more satisfying conclusion myself, but I love the story that they told.
I think most of us really don't understand your complaint. What would be the point in playing is you could control everything? You might as well just write fan fiction instead of playing the game. The characters would have no unique goals that mattered to them, they'd be unwilling to make sacrifices or act on their beliefs, your character wouldn't even be plausible since you'd be able to break lore willy nilly. It would just be puppeteering.
I think most of us really don't understand your complaint. What would be the point in playing is you could control everything? You might as well just write fan fiction instead of playing the game. The characters would have no unique goals that mattered to them, they'd be unwilling to make sacrifices or act on their beliefs, your character wouldn't even be plausible since you'd be able to break lore willy nilly. It would just be puppeteering.
Then why are we allowed to "puppeteer" the other romances, hm?
But Solas's romance isn't "every other romance in the game". There are certain extenuating circumstances at play here. I mean, I'm hoping for a more satisfying conclusion myself, but I love the story that they told.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the story, and I love the character. If I didn't, I wouldn't be so worked up.
What I hate the most is that any conclusion to this romance is gated behind a big fat "maybe" and another purchase, just like with Morrigan. As it stands, I love what they did with "Witch Hunt" and Morrigan!
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