239 réponses à ce sujet

[mikeymoonshine]

I think the 3rd person POV conversation hurt the game, too. Think of Orzammar, and all the silly little things you had to do... but think of the people you met. The guy trying to set up a Chantry... Dagna... the poor woman in Dust Town begging for coin. I remember them because I spoke to them, saw their faces and expressions. We had a conversation.

 

That was lost in DAI, sadly. I don't remember any of the people except maybe the guy doing research in the desert, just b/c that's one of the last fetch quests I did.

 

It wasn't soo much of an issue for me but I get what you are saying, that probably would have made them stand out more. I think those characters are good examples of how side quests can be memorable when they are mostly just talking. The elf healer in the hinterlands could have been an example of this, persuading her to go to the crossroads was interesting. It fit into the context of the world displaying the pressures between humans and elves but the herb collecting part was pointless and made her less interesting as a character because she was giving you fetch quests. There was no need for it, a lot of the fetch quests givers could just have been there to talk to or could have given a lot more personal quests with less to do and more to learn about. 

[FiveThreeTen]

Adding more relevant NPC for each areas would have indeed improved things.

 

Like that Dragon researcher in the Western Approach, but more fleshed out.

[New Kid]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

They've got the right idea for Crestwood. Even though it is not the same as the E3 demo, there is clearly a story there, and you get to see the progression of the story through interactions with NPCs, and changes in landscape and weather. Not so for other areas, unfortunately. There is some stuff going on in Emprise du Lion, Exalted Plains, and Emerald Graves, but they are rather bare-bones, and frankly devoid of character, or tension.

 

I think there is no need for the over-abundance of open-world areas. Cut down on those, and shift the focus to the main narrative, and DAI would have been a much stronger game.

[TheLittleBird]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

 

That's a great point. However, what makes the boredom of most sidequests stand out a lot more in this game is the fact that there are whole areas with them, that have almost 0 ties to the main story itself. The Hissing Wastest would be a great example of that. In Origins, boring sidequests were... tolerated a lot more considering that they were present in an area with huge ties to the main story.

 

A boring sidequest in Orzammar? Well, that is perfectly fine, because there is an awesome questline about who's becoming the next King after Endrin Aeducan's tragic death. 

 

A boring sidequest in the Hissing Wastes? Ugh, this whole area is filled with broing sidequests. The only one I may like is the one related to Fairel's Tomb, and that's not much either.

[mikeymoonshine]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

 

Well no, a lot of them were not exciting but many of them were meaningful. A lot of them were just "go talk to that npc in that other area you are going to go to already" but the way they were written made them interesting. 

[TheLittleBird]

 

They've got the right idea for Crestwood. Even though it is not the same as the E3 demo, there is clearly a story there, and you get to see the progression of the story through interactions with NPCs, and changes in landscape and weather. Not so for other areas, unfortunately. There is some stuff going on in Emprise du Lion, Exalted Plains, and Emerald Graves, but they are rather bare-bones, and frankly devoid of character, or tension.

 

I think there is no need for the over-abundance of open-world areas. Cut down on those, and shift the focus to the main narrative, and DAI would have been a much stronger game.

 

I actually thought Emprise Du Lion was much better, even than Crestwood. Why? Because you spend a lot of the time in that area pushing the Red Templar forces back up the mountain, claiming their camps for the Inquisition, and in the end prepare for a final siege on Suledin Keep and the 'mastermind' behind the Templars in the area. It felt like you were actually achieving something there.

 

Crestwood had that as well, but it kind of fell flat a bit when the area turned to the daytime. Though calling judgement upon that Mayor was quite satisfying.

[mikeymoonshine]

 

 

 

I actually thought Emprise Du Lion was much better, even than Crestwood. Why? Because you spend a lot of the time in that area pushing the Red Templar forces back up the mountain, claiming their camps for the Inquisition, and in the end prepare for a final siege on Suledin Keep and the 'mastermind' behind the Templars in the area. It felt like you were actually achieving something there.

 

Crestwood had that as well, but it kind of fell flat a bit when the area turned to the daytime. Though calling judgement upon that Mayor was quite satisfying.

 

 

Meh, I was happy with the story for both of those areas. 

 

I still don't get the day/night thing though. Presumably they had both versions of every area but decided to tie them to story, why? Why not just do what they did in DA2 and have certain quests locked to a time of day whilst still allowing a choice? I am not saying I needed a day and night cycle but the reason for not adding it made no sense to me. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

 

Both the Blackstone Irregulars and Favors For Certain Interested Parties had a pay-off at the end of the quest chain. While most of the quests were nothing special, they contained amusing little side-stories.

[samuelkaine]

 

Easy, because that's what the industry want's to promote as "good game design" these days... open world games are easier to do then tightly written, content rich ones.

 

Really? Because the writers have done three novels in the time since the last game. I'm pretty sure reworking an engine designed for a shooter into an open-world RPG was harder than sticking the plot of Asunder into the Infinity Engine would have been.

 

Now you might take the view that the time and effort could have been better spent, but to allege that they took the easy route seems a bit conspiratorial.

[berrieh]

Both the Blackstone Irregulars and Favors For Certain Interested Parties had a pay-off at the end of the quest chain. While most of the quests were nothing special, they contained amusing little side-stories.

 

They did? I only remember those quests as annoying grinds I needed to do for EXP and often skipped in later runs. I know I finished them both at least once, but I remember little about them except my annoyance with them. (So just don't do them, right? Well....Unlike DA:I, you basically have to do all the extra stuff if you want the EXP - you don't outlevel stuff and stop getting EXP, like in DA:I where I feel much more comfortable skipping things because there is so much.)

 

Now Lothering I liked. (And I like the Hinterlands - they've been compared.) And I remember the side stuff there, like telling the little boy his mommy was dead or the guy wanting poison traps. Loved that stuff. Probably the best side stuff in the game, except Dagna. That area seemed a complete story, and I understood everything that was happening and got into the refugee's plight. 

 

And I did just play a completionist run of DA:O recently (replayed both DAs right before DA:I came out - Awakening too), so it's not the time that's passed. It's that I seriously didn't appreciate those quests. Now, I think the side stuff in Awakening is pretty good. DA2 is mixed (and while I think DA:O is an objectively better game, with better companions, I find a run of DA2 more fun). But after Lothering, aside from a few things in Redcliffe, the side stuff in DA:O just never interested me. Whereas in DA:I almost every area had some NPC I cared about or at least a general story I cared about (some of the people I cared about were already dead and only in notes, but I still cared). I guess this is the problem with releasing products - how do you make these smaller quests engaging for everyone? 

[samuelkaine]

Losing diversity is never good. Now I imagine a lot of people would love Call Effect 4. But I am sure a lot of people would be dissapointed( Which I would be). Well there's always Kickstarter for game like Original Sins. They obviously mainstream their IP more and more. But Origin sold more copies. A bit ironic.

 

That's not irony. If it were true it would be poetic justice. We won't know if it's true until after Christmas.

 

However, what's a bit closer to irony is that Origins' bulk was driven primarily not by the PC master race, but those console peons, particularly the Xbox 360. Indeed DA:O came out at a time when just about every RPG for consoles did rather well. In short the very people responsible for the success of DA:O are the people those who deify it blame for the supposed collapse of the series.

[Sister Goldring]

I've really enjoyed DAI. It wasn't the perfect Origins sequel of my imagination but the main plot line and cast of characters gave enough enjoyment to me that I was willing to change my keyboard for a controller and adapt to the new combat style.

However, I think that there is something almost overwhelming about the size of the world and the gating of story to power points. I had moments in my first game when I really felt that I couldn't take it anymore. I felt almost like I was at work, I'd make notes about what I needed to accomplish in this block of hours to move on to the next bit. At 170 something hours in, I actually said to my Husband that I couldn't do it anymore and wrapped up any outstanding companion quests and only played the final story chapters. There are about 3 areas that I didn't explore or close any rifts in, I blazed a path to find Cassandra's enemies, free Solas's buddy (it didn't end well) and blow up red lyrium. That was it. To my mind the game had to finish, as quickly as I could wrap it up.

The thing is, I've started another character and even though I really would like to explore other options I'm finding I'm procrastinating to avoid playing it. I never felt that way in Origins. I don't know if it's the time commitment that I'm weary of or if I just need a break for a while but I just have this sort of dread that that it's just too big for me to cope with.

Anyway, that's my kind of weird response to the video. I don't agree that it's boring, I enjoyed it very much. I think it's overwhelming.

[Darkly Tranquil]

They did? I only remember those quests as annoying grinds I needed to do for EXP and often skipped in later runs. I know I finished them both at least once, but I remember little about them except my annoyance with them. (So just don't do them, right? Well....Unlike DA:I, you basically have to do all the extra stuff if you want the EXP - you don't outlevel stuff and stop getting EXP, like in DA:I where I feel much more comfortable skipping things because there is so much.)

 

Yeah, if you complete the chain, there is final quest with a cut scene and some dialogue with the characters involved.

 

In the case of the Blackstone Irregulars, you are caught in a power struggle for control of the mercenary guild between a father and son. The father wants the guild to only take honorable jobs, while the son wants to just make money. You have to decide which side to support and kill the other.

 

In Favors for Certain Interested Parties, you are doing jobs for two rogues who are vying for control of a patch of turf. Eventually, you have to kill one to get paid by the other.

 

The stories and cutscenes are short, but they provide a little extra for going to the trouble of doing the entire quest chain.

 

Here is a video of the Blackstone Irregulars one -

Spoiler

[KaiserShep]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

 

Some were OK, and while there was a good amount of footwork for the PC to go through to see some of them through, a number of them did have some interesting resolutions. I didn't expect the end of the Asunder quest, where you picked up bloody parts in bags and then placed them on an altar, only to be confronted by a pride demon that gave you a choice. And of course, I pick the option that forces a fight with the pride demon and whatever. The most side quests in DA:O that I can ever really remember or care for were the ones you do in Denerim, like clearing out the Crimson Oars, clearing bandits from the streets and such. Of course, I gotta shout out to my favorite side quest, the Mad Hermit in the Brecilian Forest. DA:O did not have a lot of memorable side quests, but it did have some that really were.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I liked the hissing wastes.  It was a rare occasion when "exploration" actually felt like exploration to me.

 

I think Bioware should have divided their zones better.

 

As it is, most zones are a garbled melting pot of quests and exploration. I like this personally, many people don't. Maybe if they clearly decided that some zones (like Crestwood) were mostly quest-focused, being smaller, more linear, preferably with narrated quests and a settlement. Then you have the big zones like Hissing Wastes and Emerald Graves, huge, expansive, with less quests and more focus on puzzles, dungeons and exploration. 

 

It's also telling that TB argues that Bioware's writing is still top-notch and the cast of characters is the best in a Dragon Age game. I do feel that, in their experimentation, Bioware kinda lost focus of why people play their games; story and characters, especially the latter. Not that there is no story content, hell there's probably more main story and companion dialog than in Origins, but it's too gated and spread out to notice. 

[Bakgrind]

It's kind of funny that he brought up ravens since I thought the very same thing that If Assassins Creed can use pigeons I don't see why we can't use raven's to open up the War Room options while you are in the field would just be practical approach and would make for a really good role playing experience . Oh well maybe next time

[berrieh]

Yeah, if you complete the chain, there is final quest with a cut scene and some dialogue with the characters involved.

 

In the case of the Blackstone Irregulars, you are caught in a power struggle for control of the mercenary guild between a father and son. The father wants the guild to only take honorable jobs, while the son wants to just make money. You have to decide which side to support and kill the other.

 

In Favors for Certain Interested Parties, you are doing jobs for two rogues who are vying for control of a patch of turf. Eventually, you have to kill one to get paid by the other.

 

The stories and cutscenes are short, but they provide a little extra for going to the trouble of doing the entire quest chain.

 

 

Fair enough, and I did see that scene recently (now that I remember it) but probably got bored during and skipped through. That happened a fair amount in my recent playthrough of DA:O. Granted, I've played it more, but I never remember relishing those quests.Everything felt too random in Origins, and the stories were rarely compelling to me. I remember loving Lothering and being let down by the side stuff after that. A lot of the small sidequests in DA2 I remember and enjoy, though. 

[Morroian]

 They could have definitely done a better job on side quests , more meaningful ones would have made the game better for sure.

 

I think this would improve if they make the war table more relevant to the game. Its something they need to work on in the next game assuming they stay with the same format.

[Disco Overlord]

I definitely agree with this guy about the sidequesting and open world, but I don't think it was as bad as he claimed it to be.

 

He brings up bad sidequests such as monument finding, requisitions, and shards.  While monument finding was generally fun because it led to eye-candy scenery with some lore to back it up, I agree that the requisition gathering and shards were by far the most pointless quests in the game.  The shards in particular was infuriating to me in some parts (goddamn Forbidden Oasis shards) with an absolutely terrible end reward.

 

However, I do not agree that there were no memorable sidequests.  I felt that every area had at least one or two relatively major sidequests that were creative and memorable: the underwater town in Crestwood, the frozen-in-time dungeon in Western Approach, the haunted chateau in Emerald Graves, the undead horde in the Exalted Plains, and not to mention the assault on various keeps just to name a few.

 

But for some reason he never mentions these, and I assume then that he has never experienced these sidequests.  So then why is that?  It's because the zones are too large and open world just like he said.  Among lots of mediocrity that comes with the dilution of content thanks to expanding the zones there are still amazing experiences to be had.  I found that the Hinterlands, while big and pretty, isn't very deep and approaches Skyrim-level of (lack of) deepness.  And on the other side, places like Emprise du Lion, Crestwood, and Fallow Mire are perfectly sized, interesting, and don't overstay their welcome.

 

DA:I was pretty enjoyable and my favorite game this year, but I wish they would tone down on the 'open-worldness.'  Anyone who plays Bioware games would say they play for the story and characters, and Bioware should focus on those things while leaving the open-world sandbox games to Bethesda.

[Xionanx]

Yeah... his complaint is the side quests are how you get power and the story quests are gated behind the need for power.. then he states "30 power for the winter palace is a lot"..

 

I am currently sitting on 230+ UNUSED POWER...   30 power is a joke.

 

The real problem with the side quests are that there are too many of them that just aren't engaging at all.. simply..  hey, I found this dead body and now I'm telling you about it.. QUEST COMPLETE!!!  here.. have some power.

[Hazegurl]

I 100% agree with TB. I'll play DAI again but only after mods and console commands are available so I can feel like a real Inquisitor and not a miner/gardener. I just don't think I'll be able to get through it  third time with the game as is. I really love some of my companions, and I liked the main missions and my Inquisitor. But the "busywork" is mind numbing.

[Morroian]

Yeah... his complaint is the side quests are how you get power and the story quests are gated behind the need for power.. then he states "30 power for the winter palace is a lot"..

 

I am currently sitting on 230+ UNUSED POWER...   30 power is a joke.

 

That is one of the issues with the war table though, it renders the overarching strategic aspects moot and renders quests for increasing power irrelevant at a certain point which is not even half way through the game.  

[cljqnsnyc]

It's fair enough to call some of the side quests boring but sections like the darkspawn quest in the western approach and the fallow mire were excellent. Can we really say any DA:O sidequests were exciting?

For me they were. If I didn't help that guy save the hound, I wouldn't have had my dog. If I didn't speak to Dagna, she would never have had the chance to become The Arcanist. The difference isn't excitement, it's getting you to care, which is why you remember these npcs years later. Several other individuals tied into the story. If you didn't speak to them, you would have missed out. DAI doesn't have much on the same level as DAO when it comes to standout npcs worthy of being remembered. Of course, I'm not referring to the companions. Bioware does these characters better than anyone.