891 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

No offense, but there's no way you're serious right now. Lovers and priest don't act the same around each other. But it matters little in the end, the fact is they didn't want him to leave and go to the Maker. So they killed the one they thought was responsible. It had absolutely nothing to do with her sister. 

 

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the codex said "they held hands and kissed longingly". I also didn't realize all lovers act the same. It's not like people express their love differently, or in the case of a couple discussing marriage wouldn't talk about it seriously.

 

You say "they" killed the one they thought was responsible, but the fact is that it was Siona who did so. And she acted hastily.

 

And I'd argue the "it had nothing to do with her sister", in the sense that her mind was calling for vengeance prior so the waters can be muddied on her intentions. Honest mistake or "Ah a shem! Let me plug her with an arrow!"

 

But that's all it has to do with it.

[Evamitchelle]

Because she was going after her brother, and then killed his lover and then procedded to kill other humans.

Where did the sister come into this again?

You fail to see how the recent murder of Siona's sister by humans would influence her judgement when dealing with the settlement of these same humans ?
 
 

Umm, Red Crossing is something that both the the elves and human ack happened, but simply disagree on the nature of.

I will admit I am using words like butcher and such merely for the dramatics of it.

But events @ Red Crossing are both noted in "The Rise and Fall of the Dales," as told by Sarethia, hahren of the Highever alienage" and "Folklore and History, by Sister Petrine".

You may claims bias of course, so feel free to do so.

I'm not denying the attack on Red Crossing, I just want a source for the "whole town was massacred thing". Siona killed the human woman outside RC, the men of the village ran out to defend her, attacked the Dalish, were "no match" and got killed. If that's the extent of the attack on Red Crossing it's not even close to butchering the whole town.

[Xilizhra]

I'm not ignoring what some of the humans did, and I agree that Orlais' retaliation went to far. But everything humanity as a race did was merely a reaction to what the Dales did. If the Dalish want to generalize and blame all of humanity for the brutality of a few humans during that, then the same applies to the elves of the Dales.  

How many humans say "the destruction of the Dales was wrong and Orlais went too far?"

[TheLastArchivist]

Holy **** the argument started all over again

 

Where's the popcorn? 

[myahele]

Blame Orlais. They did something similar to Ferelden and Kirkwal

[LOLandStuff]

No offense, but there's no way you're serious right now. Lovers and priest don't act the same around each other. But it matters little in the end, the fact is they didn't want him to leave and go to the Maker. So they killed the one they thought was responsible. It had absolutely nothing to do with her sister. 

 

Maybe they should've explained how he put his thingy into her you-know-what. Go all ikea erotica.

[Roamingmachine]

So an internal investigation of one their members by the emerald knights goes fubar, a human gets accidentally shot leading to a whole bunch of humans attacking the knights and getting killed in turn and its somehow turned in to 'evil elves attack and wipe out a town without cause'? The operation was a charlie foxtrot which the knights fully acknowledge, but it was no attack on the humans and certainly no massacre of innocents. There was one innocent killed there and that was the human woman, lover of the knight under investigation.   But hey, don't let that get in the way of spreading disinformation, adb folks....

[Shadow Fox]

Holy **** the argument started all over again

 

Where's the popcorn? 

*gives popcorn*

[TEWR]

All nations have an obligation to help each other during a Blight. They only endangered themselves by sitting it out, either by losing an ally to combat the Blight or by breaking relations, the latter being what happened.

 

 

True but bear in mind we still only have recent accounts of what happened back then, which we could still look at in a suspect fashion. The truth could be more then we know. Or the Elves could've been isolationist. Or they could've viewed Montsimmard as a lost battle and felt that they shouldn't send troops to their deaths where they could do nothing.

 

The truth is that it wasn't a lost battle, but what is the case isn't always what we perceive at that point in time.

 

I'm not saying they couldn't have been isolationist dicks. Just that theoretically, the accounts we have come from relatively recent times rather then from back then. As was the case with Red Crossing. All we had to go off of were things from recently rather then from back then, until now.

[TheLastArchivist]

If this goes on, we'll have a Red Crossing happening live right in this thread. 

[Steelcan]

So an internal investigation of one their members by the emerald knights goes fubar, a human gets accidentally shot leading to a whole bunch of humans attacking the knights and getting killed in turn and its somehow turned in to 'evil elves attack and wipe out a town without cause'? The operation was a charlie foxtrot which the knights fully acknowledge, but it was no attack on the humans and certainly no massacre of innocents. There was one innocent killed there and that was the human woman, lover of the knight under investigation.   But hey, don't let that get in the way of spreading disinformation, adb folks....

right which part of burning a town isn't their fault?

[Adanu]

Maybe not, but can you honestly blame human society for perceiving it as an act of war? While the Orlesians might have been in the right, they sure as hell probably didn't know that it was an accident and screw up by the Dalish. All they see is that the Dalish murdered pretty much an entire town. And further, it definitely doesn't appear that the Dalish responsible went to the Orlesians to explain what happened either.

You're just as bad emphasizing the bad only and holding up humans as paragons of virtue.

 

Both humans and elves need to learn how to forge new friendships. Holding onto 800 year old grudges helps no one and only keeps tensions between the clans and the nations.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How many humans say "the destruction of the Dales was wrong and Orlais went too far?"

The destruction of the nation of the Dales wasn't wrong. The nation proved itself a threat, so eliminating a threat is only logical. 

 

However the treatment of the elves went to far, and a lot of humans think so. 

[Xilizhra]

The destruction of the nation of the Dales wasn't wrong. The nation proved itself a threat, so eliminating a threat is only logical. 

 

However the treatment of the elves went to far, and a lot of humans think so. 

Quote me, plz.

[Steelcan]

If this goes on, we'll have a Red Crossing happening live right in this thread. 

 

 

well its red......and the Dalish sure haven't forgotten

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

[ArvinDulku]

You fail to see how the recent murder of Siona's sister by humans would influence her judgement when dealing with the settlement of these same humans ?
 
 

I'm not denying the attack on Red Crossing, I just want a source for the "whole town was massacred thing". Siona killed the human woman outside RC, the men of the village ran out to defend her, attacked the Dalish, were "no match" and got killed. If that's the extent of the attack on Red Crossing it's not even close to butchering the whole town.

 

....Good sir, as mentioned a few post ago, and i believe this applies to most that take the same stand on this matter as me, we were simply words like butcher and such for the dramatic effect of the word rather than any claim of validity.

 

This however foes not change the fact, nor does her state of mind btw, that they invaded a foreign nation (to which they had bad relations with already), attacked a town of villagers and killed people in cold blood.

 

The point still stands.

[TheLastArchivist]

*gives popcorn*

Thanks, buddy. o/

 

I think I'll have some halla meat to accompany this. Yummy yummy.

[LobselVith8]

You're just as bad emphasizing the bad only and holding up humans as paragons of virtue.

 

Both humans and elves need to learn how to forge new friendships. Holding onto 800 year old grudges helps no one and only keeps tensions between the clans and the nations.

 

The elven Inquisitor, Skyhold under the rule of a Dalish, and Clan Lavellan in Wycome take steps in that direction.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The elven Inquisitor, Skyhold under the rule of a Dalish, and Clan Lavellan in Wycome take steps in that direction.

Seems rather one-sided to consider as support to "forge new friendships". 

[LobselVith8]

Seems rather one-sided to consider as support to "forge new friendships". 

 

I think Clan Lavellan saving the humans of Wycome from red lyrium, refusing to leave the Andrastian elves in Wycome to die when the nobles turn the other Marcher states against them, and taking residence to become an active part of the Wycome community as one of the leaders of Wycome would fall under the category of "forging new friendships".

 

The same can be said for Lavellan building friendships with humans, elves, dwarves... and establishing Skyhold as a place where Dalish can freely roam with humans and Andrastian elves without fear of persecution.

[Evamitchelle]

....Good sir, as mentioned a few post ago, and i believe this applies to most that take the same stand on this matter as me, we were simply words like butcher and such for the dramatic effect of the word rather than any claim of validity.
 
This however foes not change the fact, nor does her state of mind btw, that they invaded a foreign nation (to which they had bad relations with already), attacked a town of villagers and killed people in cold blood.
 
The point still stands.

Except people are still bringing up burning the town/slaughtering the entire village etc. as proof that the Dalish were 100% at fault for the Fall of the Dales, when all we know for certain is that the Dalish killed the humans of RC who attacked them because Siona killed the human woman. That's more of a "everyone should have chilled" situation than "the Dalish declared war on Orlais". 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think Clan Lavellan saving the humans of Wycome from red lyrium, refusing to leave the Andrastian elves in Wycome to die when the nobles turn the other Marcher states against them, and taking residence to become an active part of the Wycome community as one of the leaders of Wycome would fall under the category of "forging new friendships".

 

The same can be said for Lavellan building friendships with humans, elves, dwarves... and establishing Skyhold as a place where Dalish can freely roam with humans and Andrastian elves.

I was referring to you calling the Inquisitor a ruler rather than something like leader, actually. Being led by an elf sounds more friendly than being ruled by an elf, which sounds more one-sided due to the nature of the term rule. 

 

Though I'm surprised your elf is still Dalish considering everything we learn in DAI about the religion. 

[ArvinDulku]

So an internal investigation of one their members by the emerald knights goes fubar, a human gets accidentally shot leading to a whole bunch of humans attacking the knights and getting killed in turn and its somehow turned in to 'evil elves attack and wipe out a town without cause'? The operation was a charlie foxtrot which the knights fully acknowledge, but it was no attack on the humans and certainly no massacre of innocents. There was one innocent killed there and that was the human woman, lover of the knight under investigation.   But hey, don't let that get in the way of spreading disinformation, adb folks....

 

My good man, the only one twisting fact here is you.

 

They invaded a nation, attacked a village (yes, entering the village and killing even one person there is an attack) and then ended killing a bunch of people.

 

You conviently ignored:

 

a - Humans attacked because they came across a bunch of armed Emerald Knight, who had killed one of their own. Their "attack" was obviously an attempt to defend their village and themselves from what was, to their mind, an invading force. They did NOTHING wrong.

b - The Elves were Emerald Knight, considered the finest of Elven warriors and armed. And you''re trying to tell me they could not have retreated? Instead no, they killed villagers of the town they invaded who had the temerity to defend themselves.

 

I love how you'll are trying to shift blame unto the villagers though.

 

#dalishlogic

[Steelcan]

Except people are still bringing up burning the town/slaughtering the entire village etc. as proof that the Dalish were 100% at fault for the Fall of the Dales, when all we know for certain is that the Dalish killed the humans of RC who attacked them because Siona killed the human woman. That's more of a "everyone should have chilled" situation than "the Dalish declared war on Orlais". 

everyone should have chilled before Red Crossing was turned into a wreck

 

there's no going back after that

[RobRam10]