891 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

The Orlesians provoked that by murdering the Elven leader's family.

which was provoked by elves killing a Chantry sister iirc

[Bowie Hawkins]

which was provoked by elves killing a Chantry sister iirc

 

You keep ignoring how false rumors spread by the humans were why the leader's sister was murdered, and that this happened before that incident. And, for that matter, how there was not enough light or time to tell whether the Chantry sister was trying to kill her until it was tragically too late.

[Steelcan]

You keep ignoring how false rumors spread by the humans were why the leader's sister was murdered, and that this happened before that incident. And, for that matter, how there was not enough light or time to tell whether the Chantry sister was trying to kill her until it was tragically too late.

yeah, false rumors, according to... an unbiased and impartial source?  lol

 

right, its better to shoot first and ask questions later.....then invade when it becomes apparent you were in the wrong

[herkles]

The whole thing about the exalted march of the dales is that NEITHER side was in the right. at least that is my take on it.

[LOLandStuff]

Leader? I remember no leader. And what was that sister doing alone by the borders anyway?

You'd think she'd have an escort of sort. After all, the elves did sit it out during the Blight, so tension was to be expected. 

[Bowie Hawkins]

yeah, false rumors, according to... an unbiased and impartial source?  lol

 

right, its better to shoot first and ask questions later.....then invade when it becomes apparent you were in the wrong

 

Humans shooting first and not asking any questions at all was what started the entire chain of events that led to war, no matter how much you dislike that there's a canonical source to back that up, and that you have yet to provide any source at all to back up your claims of them massacring the entire settlement.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Orlesians murdering an Elf for wandering too close to a group of them - which is what started the whole chain of events that sparked the war - was provocation.

The event that sparked the war was Red Crossing. Period. There had been hostility and general cool relations between the two nations before, but the event that sparked the war was: the massacre of Red Crossing.

[Steelcan]

Humans shooting first and not asking any questions at all was what started the entire chain of events that led to war, no matter how much you dislike that there's a canonical source to back that up, and that you have yet to provide any source at all to back up your claims of them massacring the entire settlement.

the chain of events extends to the founding of the Dales

 

but the war was started when elves attacked Red Crossing and continued into Orlais.

 

 

Everything before that falls under "border tensions".

 

 

Now, the question is, where the elves justified in attacking Red Crossing, and the answer is no

[Bowie Hawkins]

The event that sparked the war was Red Crossing. Period. 

 

The Red Crossing was sparked by the humans murdering Siona's sister. If the humans hadn't murdered her, things might have turned out differently, so you don't get to discount that act of human aggression.

[Steelcan]

The Red Crossing was sparked by the humans murdering Siona's sister. If the humans hadn't murdered her, things might have turned out differently, so you don't get to discount that act of human aggression.

which was in turn the result of animosity on both sides

 

the Dales freakin let Monstimmard get sacked by Darkspawn

 

 

 

 

bu the war between Orlais and the Dales was started when elves attacked Red Crossing, that would be the official date of the start of the war

[Bowie Hawkins]

Now, the question is, where the elves justified in attacking Red Crossing, and the answer is no

 

If you want to claim that Siona killing the chantry sister because she didn't have enough time or light to tell that she wasn't being attacked justifies what happened to the Elves, then you need to also argue that the murder of Siona's sister by the humans justifies everything Siona did.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Red Crossing was sparked by the humans murdering Siona's sister. If the humans hadn't murdered her, things might have turned out differently, so you don't get to discount that act of human aggression.

Which was sparked by Elves killing a Chantry sister and the people trying to defend her.

 

And ALL the animosity between the two nations started when the ELVES abbandoned Orlais to the Darkspawn.

[Steelcan]

If you want to claim that Siona killing the chantry sister because she didn't have enough time or light to tell that she wasn't being attacked justifies what happened to the Elves, then you need to also argue that the murder of Siona's sister by the humans justifies everything Siona did.

what justifies what happened to the elves was their invasion of Red Crossing and further into Orlais, and the losing

 

Their attack on Red Crossing was not justified, they had no cause to attack the town as a whole that I can recognize.  "Heavily armed and well trained knights slaughtered a bunch of humans" is not a justification for continuing the attack

[Bowie Hawkins]

Which was sparked by Elves killing a Chantry sister and the people trying to defend her.

 

You're wrong, because what you're referring to was the humans killing Siona's brother in retaliation for Siona panicking and killing the Chantry sister. But if Siona's sister hadn't been murdered by humans because of lies spread by humans, then Siona might not have panicked when the Chantry sister was running toward her. 

[Bowie Hawkins]

Their attack on Red Crossing was not justified, they had no cause to attack the town as a whole that I can recognize. 

 

Cite the codex entry that can back up your claim that they attacked the town as a whole.

[herkles]

so basically the elves deserve to have been pushed into alianages and all their oppression? If only they didn't do the massacere of red crossing, which is indeed horrible, but they did and because that we can oprress the elves without guilt.

[Mr.House]

DAI shattering dalish beliefs was my high point of the game.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You're wrong, because what you're referring to was the humans killing Siona's brother in retaliation for Siona panicking and killing the Chantry sister. But if Siona's sister hadn't been murdered by humans because of lies spread by humans, then Siona might not have panicked when the Chantry sister was running toward her. 

"What is that I see with my Elven eyes? GASP! It is a sexy human female priestess running towards me, clearly unarmored and unarmed... Better put her down..... Damn sexy humans".......

 

Yes, I was mistaken about which occurence you were referring to. But since you are so keen to keep pointing the finger backwards. Then I'd point out, again, that ALL the animosity between the two nations, is a result of the Elves abbandoning Orlais to the Darkspawn.

[Steelcan]

Cite the codex entry that can back up your claim that they attacked the town as a whole.

I don't need a direct codex entry, its a reasonable assumption given that the elves then continued into Orlais and sacked Monstimmard

[EmperorSahlertz]

Cite the codex entry that can back up your claim that they attacked the town as a whole.

Codex Entry: The Dales pretty much flat out states that the Elves attacked Red Crossing... Have you ever seen what happens when military attacks civilians? It isn't pretty.

[Steelcan]

so basically the elves deserve to have been pushed into alianages and all their oppression? If only they didn't do the massacere of red crossing, which is indeed horrible, but they did and because that we can oprress the elves without guilt.

they then continued into Orlais and sacked several large cities, including Monstimmard and Val Royeaux, before being pushed out, and given a chance to surrender which they turned down

[Bowie Hawkins]

"What is that I see with my Elven eyes? GASP! It is a sexy human female priestess running towards me, clearly unarmored and unarmed... Better put her down..... Damn sexy humans".......

 

Yes, I was mistaken about which occurence you were referring to. 

 

There was enough light to see that the priestess was holding something as she ran toward her, but not enough light to tell what it was. So since her sister had already been murdered by humans (something you still refuse to admit happened, btw), Siona had reason to fear that this was an attack. 

 

I don't need a direct codex entry

 

So you can't back up your claim; duly noted.

[Steelcan]

Do I need a codex entry to confirm that the Orlesians burned elven cities after they turned the tide?

 

No, its a reasonable assumption given the nature of the conflict and the events that followed it

[EmperorSahlertz]

There was enough light to see that the priestess was holding something as she ran toward her, but not enough light to tell what it was. So since her sister had already been murdered by humans (something you still refuse to admit happened, btw), Siona had reason to fear that this was an attack. 

 

 

So you can't back up your claim; duly noted.

There is nothing to admit to, because no one has ever denied it. We KNOW that Siona had lost a sister. Big whoop. Both humans AND elves had died previously in the border skirmishes. And there was enough light for them to spot eachother, and for the Siona to recognize her as the Chantry Sister Elandrin had spoken to. Siona knowingly shot down a priestess, then proceeded to massacre a civilian mob trying to defend their priestess.

 

And I JUST cited a codex entry which tells you Red Corssing was attacked by the Elves.. So what we can conclude is, that you refuse to consider evidence that goes against you. Duly noted.

[Bowie Hawkins]

Do I need a codex entry to confirm that the Orlesians burned elven cities after they turned the tide?

 

No, its a reasonable assumption given the nature of the conflict and the events that followed it

 

As assumption is not the same thing as the incontrovertible fact you keep trying to claim the massacre of the entire settlement was, so if you want to keep making that claim, then provide some proof of it.