891 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

For coming too close to their camp. And if you let them go, they bring armed men to drive the Dalish off. So, you were saying...?

[Br3admax]

I'm talking about the kind of bigotry that leads to the kind of behavior such as Orlesian nobles hunting the Dalish for sport, as Morrigan mentions in this game.

 "The evil good that men elves do lives after them; the good evil is oft interred with their bones."

 

I mean Dalish do the exact same thing. Haven't seen you condemn that yet. Never see a Dalish supporter actually criticize their side's stupidity.

 

For coming too close to their camp. And if you let them go, they bring armed men to drive the Dalish off. So, you were saying...?

 

Maybe because they threatened to kill them? Was it right to judge the entire clan for that, nope. Too bad that same clan does the exact same thing regardless just a year later, threatening a human that comes near their camp.

[herkles]

For coming too close to their camp. And if you let them go, they bring armed men to drive the Dalish off. So, you were saying...?

humans=good but flawed

dalish=evil racist pyscho monsters

[Colonelkillabee]

For coming too close to their camp. And if you let them go, they bring armed men to drive the Dalish off. So, you were saying...?

Unless the Dalish have psychics, all they proved there is that they're just as dickish as the humans and neither of them can trust either of them.

[Colonelkillabee]

Also, if I had people threatening my life nearby where I was going, I'd run them off too.

[Addai]

Also, if I had people threatening my life nearby where I was going, I'd run them off too.

It wasn't near a settlement- the two dippy guys were dungeon delving in elven ruins. How does that threaten anyone?

[Colonelkillabee]

It wasn't near a settlement- they were dungeon delving in elven ruins. How does that threaten anyone?

Arrows pointing at me. How do I know they won't decide to come kill me later "just in case"? Screw that. Dalish are good hunters and trackers.

[Steelcan]

"Hey these guys are walking around, let's go kill them because they are humans and walking around"


Yeah the humans are totally in the wrong for wanting them gone

[Addai]

Arrows pointing at me. How do I know they won't decide to come kill me later "just in case"? Screw that.

So you gather the pitchforks and go back into a spirit-haunted forest full of bears and darkspawn. Right.

 

Since we're doing the ****** for tat thing, let's recall that the setup for Nature of the Beast is an attack on Zathrian's clan where the humans murdered and raped children. Just to set some perspective for Red Crossing.

 

I'm not really interested in what other Dalish supporters have said or done in the forum the past few years. Maybe people just need to get a different hobby.

[phaonica]

Kind of in that it's not similar in anyway except someone died. 

 

Do you separate the *start* of a war and the *cause* of a war at all?

[Colonelkillabee]

So you gather the pitchforks and go back into a spirit-haunted forest full of bears and darkspawn. Right.

 

Since we're doing the ****** for tat thing, let's recall that the setup for Nature of the Beast is an attack on Zathrian's clan where the humans murdered and raped children. Just to set some perspective for Red Crossing.

 

I'm not really interested in what other Dalish supporters have said or done in the forum the past few years. Maybe people just need to get a different hobby.

They were already there from the start. Evidently none of that mattered. They made it very clear they wanted to kill me and only barely decided not to.

 

The setup doesn't matter, as again, the Red Crossing was still an attack on human land, and thus they acted accordingly. Morality doesn't matter.

[Evamitchelle]

Kind of in that it's not similar in anyway except someone died. 

 

Similar in the way that you have a tense situation between countries that goes on to full-scale war because of one extreme event. 

 

I knew about that actually, and for the most part the Dalish like to ignore this. Hence why you barely ever hear about it and why the game now makes a big deal out of it.

 

Their credo is more like "We'll never submit to the humans who did this to us". Now it's "We'll never submit. Or admit". Like I said, they're not wrong that the humans would likely dick them over, but that's largely because of the Dale's attitude in turn.

 

You can't just settle in places and be hostile to everyone around you. Just because you open some trade doesn't mean you can treat neighbors however you wish, hence why humans keep them moving.

 

If you give what you find in the Emerald Graves to Keeper Hawen he asks you for help to give a halla to Red Crossing as reparation/sign of friendship. That's not exactly what I'd call never admitting it. 

 

they were still forced out, and regardless, the war was turning against them by that point anyways.  They'd have lost it one way or another

 

Not really. "The war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew." Codex entry DA2: The Llomerryn Accords

[Colonelkillabee]

 

If you give what you find in the Emerald Graves to Keeper Hawen he asks you for help to give a halla to Red Crossing as reparation/sign of friendship. That's not exactly what I'd call never admitting it.

I'm speaking in general, here. There's a few nice dalish as well that would rather leave the past in the past. Unfortunately they don't speak for the majority of the various dalish clans.

[herkles]

Br3admax could you list positive things about the Dalish

[phaonica]

Arrows pointing at me. How do I know they won't decide to come kill me later "just in case"? Screw that. Dalish are good hunters and trackers.

 

That's like saying you happened upon a mage in the woods, you startled each other and the mage may have cast a spell. Now you should alert the templars "just in case" s/he's dangerous. Is that okay?

[Br3admax]

Do you separate the *start* of a war and the *cause* of a war at all?

The start of the war wasn't Red Crossing, it was Dalish invading Orlais. If I need one singular cause that doesn't include, "We kill everything that crosses each other's borders," it's Red Crossing. It's the accepted cause. That's like saying oil isn't the cause of the war in the Middle East because tension. 

[Br3admax]

Br3admax could you list positive things about the Dalish

Make a thread about it, and I will. 

[Colonelkillabee]

That's like saying you happened upon a mage in the woods, you startled each other and the mage may have cast a spell. Now you should alert the templars "just in case" s/he's dangerous. Is that okay?

It is if the mage was this close to ending my life just because I was close to him. That would certainly warrant an investigation from Templars.

[phaonica]

The setup doesn't matter, as again, the Red Crossing was still an attack on human land, and thus they acted accordingly. Morality doesn't matter.

 

The setup does matter though. Would you say that the mages are solely responsible for the mage-templar war because of the Kirkwall Chantry bombing?

[Colonelkillabee]

The setup does matter though. Would you say that the mages are solely responsible for the mage-templar war because of the Kirkwall Chantry bombing?

This is a bad comparison, because the mages weren't a collective force or rebel group at that time.

 

The setup doesn't matter because it's irrelevant to what actually started the wars. The setup could be erased and it wouldn't change the fact that the Dales attacked humans and bit off more than they could chew. Not talking about morality.

[phaonica]

This is a bad comparison, because the mages weren't a collective force or rebel group at that time.

 

 

Why is it a bad comparison? It's the event that is generally said to have started the war, even if neither side was properly militarized yet.

[TEWR]

It doesn't really matter why they went to RC. They shouldn't have gone at all.

 

On this, I agree. Proper diplomatic protocol would've been to talk to the leaders of Red Crossing and say they wish to talk to Elandrin about something, yet cannot because he is not in their territory. And go from there.

 

Granted, proper diplomatic protocol between neighboring countries is hard as hell to observe when people are engaging in border skirmishes. So while I understand the intentions of the Emerald Knights (really I prefer just calling them mounties with attitude. It's catchy) for why they did what they did, it was objectively a dumb-ass decision.

 

Understandable, but dumb-ass.

[phaonica]

The setup doesn't matter because it's irrelevant to what actually started the wars. The setup could be erased and it wouldn't change the fact that the Dales attacked humans and bit off more than they could chew. Not talking about morality.

 

I don't know. Is that to say that Tevinter in no way had ever provoked the war that Andraste and her followers waged against them, because she's the one who pressed first?

[TEWR]

they were still forced out, and regardless, the war was turning against them by that point anyways.  They'd have lost it one way or another

 

Not really. The Qunari don't have to live by the constraints of an economy, which the people of Thedas do. As was pointed out, Thedas nearly went bankrupt and all they were able to really do was push the Qunari into a stalemate, though this came at a heavy cost to the people living in conquered areas.

 

Eventually the Qunari would've won the war by attrition, because Thedas would've collapsed.

[Colonelkillabee]

On this, I agree. Proper diplomatic protocol would've been to talk to the leaders of Red Crossing and say they wish to talk to Elandrin about something, yet cannot because he is not in their territory.

 

Granted, proper diplomatic protocol between neighboring countries is hard as hell to observe when people are engaging in border skirmishes. So while I understand the intentions of the Emerald Knights (really I prefer just calling them mounties with attitude. It's catchy) for why they did what they did, it was objectively a dumb-ass decision.

 

Understandable, but dumb-ass.

Indeed, and that is the main reason why I keep morality and right and wrong out of it. Because from that standpoint, I understand why both acted the way that they did.

 

In fact, I couldn't even say I'd react differently. Why should I care about these ***** ass humans and their dick borders? They didn't give a **** about our space and our people before. Supposedly, going solely off of the word of the elves.

 

If true, then yea, I'd definitely say "**** these humans, we're getting our traitor and that's that."

 

But, it'd be my fault when we were killed. And it'd be my people's fault when we decided to push further in their territory.