891 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

1. Say something extreme about the elves.
2. Someone brings up a comparable situation among humans.
3. Point out the nuance and mitigating circumstances that led the humans to do what they did.
4. Insist that there is no nuance or mitigating circumstance for the elves.

Have I got this about right? Oh, maybe 3.5 would be "demand proof of the existence of said mitigating circumstance and reject hearsay if it contravenes your assumption."

ok what were the mitigating circumstances behind the elves completely abandoning Orlais during a Blight?

 

We have no evidence of any that I am aware of

[Br3admax]

And who justified Loghain? How is trying to stop a horde by the most loose of definition for a year comparable to ignoring a Blight for decades and watching people be slaughtered?

[Colonelkillabee]

Why is this even a point? The elves not helping their enemy that they were slaughtering has to be the worst point I've seen brought up so far. So the **** what? That's about on par with people saying why didn't Ulfric Stormcloak help to save his enemy from Alduin in Helgen. Enemies don't help enemies.

 

Newsflash 2014.

[Addai]

ok what were the mitigating circumstances behind the elves completely abandoning Orlais during a Blight?
 
We have no evidence of any that I am aware of

They're mortal enemies- how is that not obvious?

Forget it, I'm not engaging in these pointless exchanges which aren't meant to be real discussions, rather sparring matches that you all have obviously had way too many times.

[Steelcan]

Why is this even a point? The elves not helping their enemy that they were slaughtering has to be the worst point I've seen brought up so far. So the **** what? That's about on par with people saying why didn't Ulfric Stormcloak help to save his enemy from Alduin. Enemies don't help enemies.

 

Newsflash 2014.

this is the literal end of the world going on, the Blight can destroy landscapes rendering them uninhabitable, and they won't discriminate.  Not helping is tantamount to suicide.

 

Even Ulfric Stormcloak agrees to a ceasefire to stop Alduin

[Steelcan]

They're mortal enemies- how is that not obvious?
 

yes, better to let Orlais fall and face off against the darkspawn alone, they can totally take them on

[CrazyRah]

They're mortal enemies- how is that not obvious?

Forget it, I'm not engaging in these pointless exchanges which aren't meant to be real discussions, rather sparring matches that you all have obviously had way too many times.

 

It's admirable that you tried to start with but it seems at best futile at least here

[Dave of Canada]

Why is this even a point? The elves not helping their enemy that they were slaughtering has to be the worst point I've seen brought up so far. So the **** what? That's about on par with people saying why didn't Ulfric Stormcloak help to save his enemy from Alduin in Helgen. Enemies don't help enemies.

 

Newsflash 2014.

 

I'd say it's difference primarily being the time span. Using Ulfric as your point, they're in open conflict and don't help each other until you come along and request the ceasefire for both of them to work together against Alduin. When it comes to Loghain, he didn't believe it to be the blight and he wants to prevent Orlais from invading by "helping" like they've been known to do throughout history.

 

In this particular case with the Dalish, it was a good decade of sitting back and drinking elfroot-flavored tea and watching those shems get slaughtered by darkspawn.

[Br3admax]

Why is this even a point? The elves not helping their enemy that they were slaughtering has to be the worst point I've seen brought up so far. So the **** what? That's about on par with people saying why didn't Ulfric Stormcloak help to save his enemy from Alduin in Helgen. Enemies don't help enemies.

 

Newsflash 2014.

Season Unending, much?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why is this even a point? The elves not helping their enemy that they were slaughtering has to be the worst point I've seen brought up so far. So the **** what? That's about on par with people saying why didn't Ulfric Stormcloak help to save his enemy from Alduin in Helgen. Enemies don't help enemies.

 

Newsflash 2014.

Ulfric agrees to a ceasefire to stop Alduin, the end of the world. The Blights are of comparable threat. Furthermore Orlais and the Dales were NOT enemies yet. The entire animosity between the two states originates from this point, when the Elves abandoned Orlais to the Darkspawn.

[Colonelkillabee]

this is the literal end of the world going on, the Blight can destroy landscapes rendering them uninhabitable, and they won't discriminate.  Not helping is tantamount to suicide.

 

Even Ulfric Stormcloak agrees to a ceasefire to stop Alduin

He agrees to a ceasefire when his enemy does as well. The war here was still going on.

 

I'm sorry, but as much as the dales annoy me, this point is ****** stupid, and just goes to show that people here are too dead set on hating them. I'm not on board with that. I don't like the smell of bullshit in the morning.

[Colonelkillabee]

Season Unending, much?

Like I said, that happened AFTER both parties came to a cease fire. Don't even try to get me on elder scrolls lore. You'll lose.

 

 

Ulfric agrees to a ceasefire to stop Alduin, the end of the world. The Blights are of comparable threat. Furthermore Orlais and the Dales were NOT enemies yet. The entire animosity between the two states originates from this point, when the Elves abandoned Orlais to the Darkspawn.

See above.

 

The humans never asked for any help, there was no communication made. They were still fighting enemies during the blight.

 

You people are grasping at the shortest of straws, and I don't even like the Dales. Move on, please. This is embarrassing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

He agrees to a ceasefire when his enemy does as well. The war here was still going on.

 

I'm sorry, but as much as the dales annoy me, this point is ****** stupid, and just goes to show that people here are too dead set on hating them. I'm not on board with that. I don't like the smell of bullshit in the morning.

The only thing stupid here is your grasp of the timeline... Orlais and the Dales were NOT yet enemies at the time of the Second Blight.

[Br3admax]

Right, because when the darkspawn threaten the entire world, and when Orlais and the Dales are definitely not at open conflict, it's okay to sit by when literally everyone else fought, especially considering the fact that literally everyone is bound by treaty to combat the Blight. Okay. Don't think I can compete with that much legit. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Please do not go through my post inch for inch, the format is annoying. And anyway you haven't said anything that changes the fact that the humans were being dicks as well, and thus the morality issue is moot. Both were dicks, there is NO black hat.

 

If you bring morality into this, you're instantly wrong for claiming the Dales are worse, period. No wiggle room there.

 

Stay away from that or you expose yourself as biased and bullheaded.

 

On the contrary, the humans managed to keep it in their pants apart from the skirmishes. 

 

As I said before; it is not just Inquisition.

 

They are consistently shown to point the finger at humans when the folly belongs to them. If they aren't doing that, they are consulting with demons trying to learn about a past that is best forgotten. If they aren't doing that, they're plaguing the descendants of humans with a curse because of something their long dead ancestors did. If not that, they posture around claiming to restore something they know nothing about and bringing about technology that endangers their entire clan if not the world around them. Some of which played a hand in Corypheus' rise to power.

 

You'll have to forgive me for seeing nothing but black.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The humans never asked for any help, there was no communication made. They were still fighting enemies during the blight.

 

You people are grasping at the shortest of straws, and I don't even like the Dales. Move on, please. This is embarrassing.

As a BSNer veteran I have seen my share of stupid... But this... This has got to be up there in the top ten....

 

What you are saying is equal to saying, that if the fire department shows up to watch a burning building with people trapped inside, it is completely okay for them to just go "Meh, they didn't call 911"... Stupid.... Incredibly stupid... be ashamed.

[Colonelkillabee]

The only thing stupid here is your grasp of the timeline... Orlais and the Dales were NOT yet enemies at the time of the Second Blight.

The Dales had a policy of seclusion and didn't want anything to do with the humans. They may have not been actively killing eachother but they were indeed enemies.

 

So try again. Do you know what a policy of seclusion is?

[Dave of Canada]

He agrees to a ceasefire when his enemy does as well. The war here was still going on.

 

I'm sorry, but as much as the dales annoy me, this point is ****** stupid, and just goes to show that people here are too dead set on hating them. I'm not on board with that. I don't like the smell of bullshit in the morning.

Except the Dalish weren't at war with the humans, they just bitterly hated each other. They're spiteful cousins sitting at the opposite sides of the dinner table staring bitterly at one-another and hoping the other chokes.

 

The difference being that if one choked, the other would choke soon after because the thing would crawl out of the throat and lodge in the other so it's in the best interest of everyone to stop each other from choking.

 

I'm bad at analogies.

[Colonelkillabee]

As a BSNer veteran I have seen my share of stupid... But this... This has got to be up there in the top ten....

 

What you are saying is equal to saying, that if the fire department shows up to watch a burning building with people trapped inside, it is completely okay for them to just go "Meh, they didn't call 911"... Stupid.... Incredibly stupid... be ashamed.

Hello dumb ass, last time I checked, the fire department isn't allowed to take up policies of seclusion, and the dales don't go around saving humans either. That's not their job, lol.

 

You want stupid, look in the mirror.

[Colonelkillabee]

Except the Dalish weren't at war with the humans, they just bitterly hated each other.

That sounds exactly like enemies to me....

[Steelcan]

Ulfric agrees to stop fighting if Tullius does to end the Dragon threat, he doesn't sit back and let the Imperials do all the work fighting dragons

[Colonelkillabee]

You can get into semantics all you want, but it does you no favors. If you really expect elves then to jump to their rescue, you're biased idiotic ****** morons, and that's all there is to it. No wonder people were complaining about the Dales haters, you idiots take it to extreme levels.

 

I'll leave you kiddies be until a new point crops up.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Dales had a policy of seclusion and didn't want anything to do with the humans. They may have not been actively killing eachother but they were indeed enemies.

 

So try again. Do you know what a policy of seclusion is?

If, and now I am only humoring you, they were so deadset on absolute isolationism (which they weren't), then why exactly would they march AN ARMY to the very doorstep of Montsimmard, and just watch it struggle agaisnt the Darkspawn (which they did)? And Orlais was still in its infancy, they had barely had any dealigns with the elves yet, they were NOT enemies. Actually I'd imagine most of the humans were actually in reverence of the Elves for the help they had provided Andraste.

 

The only one grasping at straws, is you and your failure to grasp the lore is staggering...

[Colonelkillabee]

Ulfric agrees to stop fighting if Tullius does to end the Dragon threat, he doesn't sit back and let the Imperials do all the work fighting dragons

If Tullius agrees to work together, yes. THERE. WAS. NO. SUCH. COMMUNICATION. WITH. THE DALES. Ulfric and Tullius ONLY worked together because of you, the Dragonborn. And that's all I've gotta say on that point as well. See ya later.

[Steelcan]

If Tullius agrees to work together, yes. THERE. WAS. NO. SUCH. COMMUNICATION. WITH. THE DALES. Ulfric and Tullius ONLY worked together because of you, the Dragonborn. And that's all I've gotta say on that point as well. See ya later.

because the Dalish refused to help at all

 

they literally sat back and let the Orlesians die to darkspawn when they could have intervened, and that decision could have won them brownie points with Orlais, but instead they cemented a relationship of animosity