3049 réponses à ce sujet

[Colonelkillabee]

That right there is my big problem with a lot of the thread discourse. My point, and my response, was that a lot of other threads do this, too. So it's not just Abelas as hot elf waifu. (But now I want a pillow).

 

I like marginal characters. But that is my preference. 

 

Also, I get peeved when the conversation is all romance all the time. Or don't say bad things. You can dislike Babelas, ok. But there is a lot to dislike about the discourse in the other character threads. Or at least recognize that fact. Yes, critique the character! Do that! Not everything is rainbows.

Oh we know, lol. Everyone that's been into the Solas thread knows.

 

The difference is it happens a lot more with the minor characters. It's sort of like what the guys do with the qunari inquisitors. Fetishize them because there's not a lot to them, and not much else to say about them. You really couldn't compare the two to be honest.

 

 

I have no issues with people disliking the character. I have issues with people coming in and saying to a thread of fandom creators that they don't like what they're doing. There are many, many more tactful ways to phrase it. 

How much more tactful would one need to be. It was to the point, and honest. No flaming, no insulting. For these boards, that's the most you can hope for.

[Kestrel]

Oh we know, lol. Everyone that's been into the Solas thread knows.

 

The difference is it happens a lot more with the minor characters. It's sort of like what the guys do with the qunari inquisitors. Fetishize them because there's not a lot to them, and not much else to say about them. You really couldn't compare the two to be honest.

 

 

How much more tactful would one need to be. It was to the point, and honest. No flaming, no insulting. For these boards, that's the most you can hope for.

 

I'm pretty sure Giton already phrased it perfectly tactfully when she said her preference was for non romantic Abelas material. 

[Giton]

Oh we know, lol. Everyone that's been into the Solas thread knows.

 

 

 

(You will appreciate the 5 seconds I took to search for this .gif.)

[Colonelkillabee]

Oh yes and Colonel your right... it isn't Abelas's story that does it for me. It's his body and his Tolkienesque attitude. I'm shallow that way but so? 

Well at least you admit it. Just like a lot of Solasmancers should admit banging a god is a big part of their appeal as well. I agree with that, though only to an extent considering he had a following well before this was common knowledge.

 

As for you being shallow as you put it. So indeed. Someone simply didn't like this. Stated it, and then the disagreement was taken personally.

 

You say you like him for his body and tolkeinesque attitude. Someone else didn't. I ask also, so? It isn't rude to tell someone you don't like their art if they state why. It's rude to do so with no criticism, just say "This sucks", or too harshly. "Look at your ****** lines! No symmetry! You blow!" That, would have been rude.

 

This was not rude.

[Colonelkillabee]

I'm pretty sure Giton already phrased it perfectly tactfully when she said her preference was for non romantic Abelas material. 

I'm sorry honey but like I said, you should be thankful that it didn't come with flame. If people can't take criticism like that, then they are too delicate.

[legbamel]

I could see a City Elf being interested in learning about it, but in a way that's really disconnected. Like "Oh hey, that Mythal figure sounds cool. I wonder how they made her up?" And Abelas would just choke. 

 

If I write the thing, I"ll have to stick at least one city elf in there, because they may as well be humans, as far as Abelas is concerned. Though I'm sure that if he actually saw the conditions they're forced to live in, his heart might not be quite as hard. Maybe. 

Abelas would calmly say, "No one made her up.  I met her many times," and then sip his tea, because he likes tea.  He's like this cool, collected Solas in my mind, angry when you threaten his duty but otherwise pretty much unruffled.  Now that his duty is over he's implacable about the pantheon but he's seen elves treated badly by one another his whole life.  I don't know how much seeing the humans do it is going to bother him.

 

Edited to add that Part Four of Mythal's Sorrow is posted if anyone wants to read it.

[Addai]

The only thing I will argue now is that Kestrel is right and Giton always makes good points. I don't care that people want to eff a god. Go for it! It's the fact that very few will admit it as a reason. Kudos to Giton for saying it. 
 
But what I will get peeved about is when someone basically comes in and messes with my fellow artists, writers etc... That's not cool.

Now you're just dramatizing it. Me saying I don't like a lot of what fandom does to the character in terms of romanticizing Abelas is no different than people on the Solas thread saying they don't like dom!Solas fanfiction, or people on the Cassandra thread banning Cass x Varric ship discussion. People like what they like and other people get to post their cavalcade of eyerolling GIFs in response. The fact is you made critical comments about the Solas fandom, I responded that you were being disingenuous about not admitting the appeal is much the same for Abelas, and you disagreed. All this is fine and fair.

At this point I'll bow out, however, and leave you all in peace.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

.

[nikki-tikki]

I don't really know what the point of this was tbh. Sort of saying Abelas is a fantasy, but so is Solas, and then saying that shipping him is weird, but Solas is a fade nerd...

 

Spoiler

 

[legbamel]

I'm not entirely sure to understand what's the problem about people enjoying and fantasizing about a character, no matter how much ingame screen time said character has. Is there a secret contest of who's more entitled to fantasize, or anything else of that sort that still does sound petty to me, that I'm unaware of? Do we really have to make this a competition?

If anyone doubts the power of fandom to blow a character completely out of proportion and express so much love for him that he becomes a major player in the series, the Cullen thread would like a word with you.  He had less screen time than Abelas in Origins and yet he's an LI and an adviser in Inquisition--because something about his character spoke to people.  Why is that somehow a bad thing?

 

Thank you Legbamel. I finished part 3 earlier was looking for the 4th. I loved how you described Mythal and I adored her reaction to Abelas. I think it was very fitting. 

Thanks.  I've got one more part, though all of this discussion of wandering makes me want to write more.  I really don't want to take on another AU novel yet, though.  Not until I've finished with Cullen and Hawke at least...and Shepard.

[Kestrel]

If anyone doubts the power of fandom to blow a character completely out of proportion and express so much love for him that he becomes a major player in the series, the Cullen thread would like a word with you.  He had less screen time than Abelas in Origins and yet he's an LI and an adviser in Inquisition--because something about his character spoke to people.  Why is that somehow a bad thing?

 

And he had all that despite his terrible Justin Timberlake ramen hair. 

[MoonDrummer]

[Colonelkillabee]

The difference between a character like Solas and ones like Cullen and Abelas is that the latter two got so much love with barely any screen time to speak of. It seems to be for the male characters that this happens the most and I'm not entirely sure why, but it is odd. As for what's wrong with it, you can ask the ones who put Cullen in yourself, they didn't even want to, called Cullen a "good haircut", lol, and it was obviously something forced on them for popularity. I'm all for fleshing out characters people think deserve it, but that's not what happened. He was rather dull and little was explained, if anything about why he was even there.

 

I wouldn't want that to happen to Abelas, personally. Guy was cool for the five minutes of screentime he got. But seriously, lets not pretend what goes on with these sort of characters is the same as ones like Solas. Solas gets projected on because people think too much about what they want, and not what the character is. Solas is Solas regardless of what they want to see, and not everyone can handle that.

 

Abelas gets projected on because he has so much missing from him due to the little amount of time on screen he's had. That is truth.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

 

Escape while you can, Moon Drummer! Glamour Toad June will hold you safe.

[Colonelkillabee]

That is incredibly patronizing. They are too delicate?

Uh, yea. If you're posting art on the internet, one should develop thick skin, especially when someone is giving simple criticism.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

The difference between a character like Solas and ones like Cullen and Abelas is that the latter two got so much love with barely any screen time to speak of. It seems to be for the male characters that this happens the most and I'm not entirely sure why, but it is odd. As for what's wrong with it, you can ask the ones who put Cullen in yourself, they didn't even want to, called Cullen a "good haircut", lol, and it was obviously something forced on them for popularity. I'm all for fleshing out characters people think deserve it, but that's not what happened. He was rather dull and little was explained, if anything about why he was even there.

 

I wouldn't want that to happen to Abelas, personally. Guy was cool for the five minutes of screentime he got. But seriously, lets not pretend what goes on with these sort of characters is the same as ones like Solas. Solas gets projected on because people think too much about what they want, and not what the character is. Solas is Solas regardless of what they want to see, and not everyone can handle that.

 

Abelas gets projected on because he has so much missing from him due to the little amount of time on screen he's had. That is truth.

 

Totally true. In both cases, the characters are projections and nothing but wish fulfillment. Solas is twisted into what the players wishes them to be and ohhh yeah is Abelas projected upon because of the mystery. 

Definitely get why you don't want to have more of him. I think he could be a fascinating foil for Solas if done correctly, but if just put in for fan service? Ugh. I'd be pissed and wish he wasn't there. Hell, I'd have taken Samson as my general/ commander over Cullen any day. His tale of addiction, reasons for leaving the templars, his struggle to BE good and DO good in the face of addiction and an order that sought control over those he respected.. fascinating. Multifaceted.
 

Cullen... somehow washed off the PTSD of Origins, escaped the criticism that should have risen with his being the overall supportive second in command to Meredith, and... gets a keratin treatment to fix the ramen hair, a new lip scar, and a disney romance. That's not exciting. What WOULD have been exciting to me is if they had made his flaws SUPER clear. Not hide from them.

And that's my jam, really. I like people for their qualities (i.e. golden thighs or silken welsh accents). But I LOVE them for their failings. And that's what I want for Abelas. And Solas. And any other future romance. 

[legbamel]

The difference between a character like Solas and ones like Cullen and Abelas is that the latter two got so much love with barely any screen time to speak of. It seems to be for the male characters that this happens the most and I'm not entirely sure why, but it is odd. As for what's wrong with it, you can ask the ones who put Cullen in yourself, they didn't even want to, called Cullen a "good haircut", lol, and it was obviously something forced on them for popularity. I'm all for fleshing out characters people think deserve it, but that's not what happened. He was rather dull and little was explained, if anything about why he was even there.

 

I wouldn't want that to happen to Abelas, personally. Guy was cool for the five minutes of screentime he got. But seriously, lets not pretend what goes on with these sort of characters is the same as ones like Solas. Solas gets projected on because people think too much about what they want, and not what the character is. Solas is Solas regardless of what they want to see, and not everyone can handle that.

 

Abelas gets projected on because he has so much missing from him due to the little amount of time on screen he's had. That is truth.

But that's what's so great about these characters to me.  I have a huge head canon built up for Cullen, a lengthy consideration of his personality and background.  He may not have a huge backstory written for the game, though his presence makes as much sense as Varric's.

 

With so little in game I can make him who I think fits in that role, as I can for Abelas at this moment.  I'm thrilled that almost none of my head canon for Cullen conflicts with what he says or does in the game and that his story now has an end to its arc so I can stop deciding when to finish the story.  It's the side characters that give you room to stretch your imagination, whether you prefer to imagine fluff or sex or derring do.

 

So I'm not sure why people feel the need to come into a thread that's for precisely that and tell other people that they're wrong for doing so...repeatedly.  If you're not interested in Abelas then that's fine but why can't I be?  I don't tell others what to write about more-established characters, how to draw them, or how to think about them.  Why is that a good idea in this case?

[KarateKats]

 

Abelas.

Spoiler

Do you guys like him better with his cloak OPEN or CLOSED?!

[legbamel]

[snip]

 

Abelas.

Spoiler

Do you guys like him better with his cloak OPEN or CLOSED?!

Open, mostly because I'm tired of gowns and full-on robes.  I do think it looks better with the cloak, though multi-player has led me to believe he's wearing a thong which would entertain me a great deal.  I can picture it fine after driving my Arcane Warrior around, though, so I'll go with his actual in-game appearance.

[Kestrel]

 

Abelas.

Spoiler

Do you guys like him better with his cloak OPEN or CLOSED?!

 

I like the left one, because it's the only one where it doesn't look like a Hot Topic mall Goth circa 2007. 

[KarateKats]

Open, mostly because I'm tired of gowns and full-on robes.  I do think it looks better with the cloak, though multi-player has led me to believe he's wearing a thong which would entertain me a great deal.  I can picture it fine after driving my Arcane Warrior around, though, so I'll go with his actual in-game appearance.

That image was tiny, my bad. It seems like he can tie it back with the ropes or bungee cords in the first illustration. That's sort of convenient for traveling purposes I would assume. So you're thinking he's wearing a metal thong? Not a codpiece?

[MoonDrummer]

Escape while you can, Moon Drummer! Glamour Toad June will hold you safe.

I tried.