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[Abelas Forever!]

Babelas cheer up b*tch!

 

I think it's funny that Abelas is less hostile to other races than to elven Inky That's why I have very hard time seeing him as racist and I didn't think that he could ever be racist before you brought that subject up. After thinking it I don't see Abelas as being racist. He is hostile. That's true but who wouldn't be if strangers would invade their house.

 

Hopefully nobody is being punished. But I trust the devs. If they want to bring him back they will. Probably there would be people who wouldn't like that but then again there is always people who don't like feature X or story Y. I think the majority of the people don't have strong opinion whether he should be brought back or they wouldn't care if they would see him even if they killed him in DA:I. I think it's very easy to forget that people who come here on the forums are the minority of the players. If one suggestion gets a lot of support it doesn't mean that majority of players support it and if another suggestion gets a lot of oppostion it doesn't mean that majority of the players will oppose it. Only the devs can decide whether some suggestion is worth implementing and if somebody has made an suggestion and devs implement it, it doesn't mean that they did it because of that suggestion. The devs might have implement because they had planned on implementing it before that particular suggestion.

[Tielis]

Yes, Babelas, cheer up.  You do seem to be down in the dumps today.  

 

It's just one person writing that awful stuff.  Feel free to disregard them.  As my husband always reminds me about the horrible things my mother says to me, "Consider the source."

 

(And this is why I read very few fan written stories.  I have to be sure that they are happy and/or smutty first.    )  Where is yours?  You keep talking about it and I really want to read it now.  

[Babelas]

Thank you. *hugs* I am. 

 

As my husband always reminds me about the horrible things my mother says to me, "Consider the source."

 

I understand that perfectly. Mine was never happy. I usually apply that thought process to my mother-in-law now. Some times women are their own worst enemies. We can be too hard on each other

 

Ah let the flaming begin hehehe. My story is here: http://archiveofouro...hapters/7521503

 

I really don't know why I hide it. My pen name is the same as my name on here. But it's like SS said. The people who come on the forums are the minority of players. I don't think most of the people who read my story come here. I do mention it from time to time but BSN has a bad reputation for trolls. I go on about my story because I'm something like 8 months in to writing it. It has become a great way to explore Abelas, Solas, Mythal, Cullen etc... I mention it because it is a labor of love at this point. I'm close to the end and it gets harder and harder to write. Some days I want to burn it. I think what I was trying to say about writing Abelas is that there is more than one interpretation out there. It's all head cannon. There is no right or wrong when it comes to this character. But again, I don't have to like what has been written. It's an opinion. 

 

So I went away and wrote this mess below. It's not edited. It's just a way to work things out in my head. Thought I'd share.

 

Spoiler

 

I went away and wrote this to say what I am unable to say without making it into a story.

 

Let’s pretend we could play as a human commoner for a moment. Inquisitor Arling is an elven blooded female born in Kirkwall. She was raised in the slums and her mother was a prostitute. Yay for cheery stories Abelas has joined the Inquisition.

 

Inky Arling: Abelas, may I ask you a question?

 

Abelas: If you must.

 

Inky: When you look at me what do you see?

 

Abelas: A leader, a rogue, a shemlen... a survivor.

 

Inky: What if I told you that I was born from an elven mother. Now what do you see?

 

Abelas: The Dread Wolf’s mistake.

 

Inky: You think I am a mistake?

 

Abelas: Those were not my words. You are a product of this world. Who but the gods can judge what is right and wrong? It is not for me to say.

 

Inky: But what do you think? I know two things about you Abelas: you always have an opinion and you never lie. So what do you truly see when you look at me?

 

Abelas: A leader, a rogue, a shemlen, a survivor... my friend. Now that you have your answer, may I finish polishing my armour in peace?

 

Inky: You may. 

 

Abelas: Ma serannas.

 

[Abelas Forever!]

I agree women can be very harsh if they want to.

That was nice little story Babelas!

oh dear. I have strange urge to start writing fanfiction about Abelas again. This time I was thinking that what if Abelas went to teach Dalish after he left the Temple and there would be a certain female elf who wouldn't be his student but just some random elf.

[maia0407]

I also don't think that Abelas is racist. He doesn't like Dalish but I think that is understandable because it seems that Dalish have tried to invade his temple. Dalish haven't respected the sacred ground and they have tried to invade the temple and fetch the riches from it and maybe drink from the well. I think he is also right when he says that Dalish are shadows wearing vallaslin. They are shadows of the ancient elves because ancient elves where immortal beings who lived in an amazing world build by magic. The Dalish are mortal beings who live in a forest and try to survive.

Abelas is also quite angry at Tevinter but I think that is also understandable because people in Tevinter think that they conquered Elvhen empire and that was a huge victory when in reality there weren't much left from the Elvhen empire. No wonder that Abelas is angry. Besides I don't see him showing disrespect towards any particular race. To me it seems that the world has changed into something very different than he had used to but because he had to protect the well he has been forced to see the change while he couldn't have changed with the world because he was trapped in that temple.

Been reading this thread off and on for awhile now and just wanted to pipe in to show my support for Abelas. I really liked his character design and his personality during the brief moments we had with him. He was very mysterious and showed a sense of quiet duty and honor along with deep sadness. I really wanted to know more about him and hope that he returns. With all that being said, I do think he comes off as being racist.

 

From what we've learned about the ancient elves, they see themselves as above other races of their time and definitely above the modern races. The ancient elves had some undefined quality to them as a result of their connection to the fade that modern people don't have. This, more than anything, seems to be why Abelas doesn't consider modern elves to be his people. They lack that quality and the ancient elves don't seem to be able to see value in people that lack that connection to the fade.

 

It seems to me that some of you have become very invested in your head cannon of what Abelas is like; I'm guessing that's understandably due to spending so much time thinking about and even writing fiction about him. But, you've got to understand that your idea of what he is like is just as valid as another person's interpretation, especially due to the limited amount of time we had with him. He comes off as racist; but, he can be reasoned with as evidenced at the temple and I think his views could be changed.

[Gooseberry]

*stumbles to the clearing* is...am I in the right place? Been wandering for ages now.People in camp Solas were too....um angry and frankly camp Cullen residents with their make-up addiction seem rather ridiculous or...

 

*looks around nervously* this is the place to support Abelas,yes? I....hope you do not mind if I stay? Have been looking this place for a while now from shadows and would love to just listen to your stories if you do not mind

 

*erects her little tent and starts silently to prepare tea on campfire*

[Babelas]

Been reading this thread off and on for awhile now and just wanted to pipe in to show my support for Abelas. I really liked his character design and his personality during the brief moments we had with him. He was very mysterious and showed a sense of quiet duty and honor along with deep sadness. I really wanted to know more about him and hope that he returns. With all that being said, I do think he comes off as being racist.

 

From what we've learned about the ancient elves, they see themselves as above other races of their time and definitely above the modern races. The ancient elves had some undefined quality to them as a result of their connection to the fade that modern people don't have. This, more than anything, seems to be why Abelas doesn't consider modern elves to be his people. They lack that quality and the ancient elves don't seem to be able to see value in people that lack that connection to the fade.

 

It seems to me that some of you have become very invested in your head cannon of what Abelas is like; I'm guessing that's understandably due to spending so much time thinking about and even writing fiction about him. But, you've got to understand that your idea of what he is like is just as valid as another person's interpretation, especially due to the limited amount of time we had with him. He comes off as racist; but, he can be reasoned with as evidenced at the temple and I think his views could be changed.

I understand where you are coming from. I appreciate that you support the character. 

 

But I disagree and not because of my head cannon. I think it is a mixture of Solas and Abelas head cannons that leads to this conclusion more often than not. Solas hardly ever gets named racist. I often wonder why that is considering his future plans. But I digress. So let's go on what is said in the game.

 

Abelas proclaims to a Dalish Inquisitor (not any other) that you are not his people. Dalish Inky invades his temple as readily as the others. Lack of respect. Abelas is pissed. 

 

Dalish Inky then tries to find some common bond with a person who has just woken up from a thousand year nap. Abelas is having none of it. He's heard it all before. He assumes you are after the well because that is the only reason people come to the temple. And you are after the well even if you believe you have a choice. Morrigan takes that choice from you. 

 

Genetically and historically, the Dalish and the Elvhen became two different people due to the veil, due to circumstance, due to many factors plus inbreeding with humans. They are not the same. Abelas is stating a fact. Dalish Inky has not suffered the way Abelas and the sentinels have. They do not understand the sacrifice, the duty or the actual culture the sentinel's have endured. How does this make him racist? He's saying you are not the people I have grown up with, the people who have fought and died, the people who have continued to endure the DW's choices nor does the Inky have any idea what Abelas personally feels. You are talking about relationships formed over thousands of years. How can anyone even begin to understand that? If anything it is completely arrogant to assume we have a clue what Abelas thinks and feels. And yet, Abelas is willing to ally with the Inky if you are respectful. He's willing to warn the Inky about the well. He departs with it peacefully. Some part of him finds the Inky righteous and that is what matters. Not whether you are related or going to best buddies after. He looks beyond his initial reaction and prejudices to the person. 

 

If anything the Dalish Inky is being presumptuous and prejudice by assuming a lot!

 

No one is discounting anyone's own idea of how they view the character. I don't give a flying moo cow how people see Abelas. That's their choice but I will state my opinion when I think someone is trying to preach the Abelas gossip to me. That is what I saw on tumblr. I expressed my dismay with it. But don't come here and tell me you believe my head cannon is interfering with fact. I can take this second by second in game and say with certainty that nothing he said came off as racist. It came off as defensive. 

[Babelas]

*stumbles to the clearing* is...am I in the right place? Been wandering for ages now.People in camp Solas were too....um angry and frankly camp Cullen residents with their make-up addiction seem rather ridiculous or...

 

*looks around nervously* this is the place to support Abelas,yes? I....hope you do not mind if I stay? Have been looking this place for a while now from shadows and would love to just listen to your stories if you do not mind

 

*erects her little tent and starts silently to prepare tea on campfire*

You are more than welcome. Ignore my rant above. It's directed at Solasmancers on the prowl unless they come back and tell me they believe he is also racist and then I will apologize. 

[maia0407]

 

 But don't come here and tell me you believe my head cannon is interfering with fact. I can take this second by second in game and say with certainty that nothing he said came off as racist. It came off as defensive. 

But, again, your head cannon is not fact. It's an interpretation of his views and, to be honest, you appear to be too invested in your own interpretation to gracefully accept others. I'm sorry, but no one owns this thread and I will come in here with my opinions just as you do. Please, don't tell me not to come in here. I honestly hope you didn't mean that to come off like it sounded.

[Gooseberry]

I read it through and I agree with you Babelas

 

*adds another branch to fire for more light*

 

Solas and Abelas give me totally different vibes. I am very new to Thedas and have managed to read a lot of lore(and fanfic) and still have tons of tomes to poke through. But those 2 ancient elves seem very very different to me

[Babelas]

But, again, your head cannon is not fact. It's an interpretation of his views and, to be honest, you appear to be too invested in your own interpretation to gracefully accept others. I'm sorry, but no one owns this thread and I will come in here with my opinions just as you do. Please, don't tell me not to come in here. I honestly hope you didn't mean that to come off like it sounded.

I'm not going on my head cannon. I have millions of them so it would be extremely difficult to wade through them. What I meant is that it sounds like you assume we are saying Abelas is not racist because of head cannon. It's an assumption I do not want attributed to me without being asked if that is how I am forming my opinion. It is not. I am aware that no one owns the thread. I am aware that you are entitled to your opinion. But when it starts to sound like reasons are being attributed to me and those who frequent here without first being asked, then yes, I will defend them and myself. So I will calm the hell down and ask reasonably: why do you think Abelas is racist? Do you think all Elvhen are racist or just him? I am very... defensive and passionate about this topic. Being attacked over months does that to a person. I apologize for that. But I will defend my friends.

[Babelas]

I read it through and I agree with you Babelas

 

*adds another branch to fire for more light*

 

Solas and Abelas give me totally different vibes. I am very new to Thedas and have managed to read a lot of lore(and fanfic) and still have tons of tomes to poke through. But those 2 ancient elves seem very very different to me

Thank you. Was DAI your first DA game? Well... I've always seen them as different. I am uncertain that they share the same beliefs to be honest. Abelas seems to have accepted that Elvhenan is gone and will never come again. He has kind of moved on in some respects. I also wonder if he would want to restore it because without Mythal I am uncertain it would ever be the same for him. Any thoughts? I'd be curious to know your opinions on the elves. It's always nice when we get a fresh voice around here.

[maia0407]

I'm not going on my head cannon. I have millions of them so it would be extremely difficult to wade through them. What I meant is that it sounds like you assume we are saying Abelas is not racist because of head cannon. It's an assumption I do not want attributed to me without being asked if that is how I am forming my opinion. It is not. I am aware that no one owns the thread. I am aware that you are entitled to your opinion. But when it starts to sound like reasons are being attributed to me and those who frequent here without first being asked, then yes, I will defend them and myself. So I will calm the hell down and ask reasonably: why do you think Abelas is racist? Do you think all Elvhen are racist or just him? I am very... defensive and passionate about this topic. Being attacked over months does that to a person. I apologize for that. But I will defend my friends.

When I mention head cannon, I'm saying that you've taken information from the DA universe and applied it to Abelas to make a determination of how he feels about other races. The information you cite about ancient elves and the events in the temple are correct, but, again, you're using that to apply an interpretation of how Abelas feels about other races. That interpretation is head cannon as we don't really know much about how Abelas feels. I'm not saying my interpretation or head cannon is any more valid than yours. I am saying that his manner came across as disdainful of modern elves and that he appeared racist. And, yes, from what I've seen so far the other elves, including Solas, and races are racist for the most part.

 

I'm curious, who are you referring to as your friends? Are you talking about the people on the forum or the characters? I understand how being attacked can make you defensive but expressing a different opinion is not attacking you. I don't get upset when people attack Solas even though my Lavellan romanced him. It just strikes me as odd that people dismiss other people as lowly 'Solasmancers' in defense of their hostile attitude towards differing opinions.

[Babelas]

When I mention head cannon, I'm saying that you've taken information from the DA universe and applied them to Abelas to make a determination of how he feels about other races. The information you cite about ancient elves and the events in the temple are correct, but, again, you're using that to apply an interpretation of how Abelas feels about other races. That interpretation is head cannon as we don't really know much about how Abelas feels. I'm not saying my interpretation or head cannon is any more valid than yours. I am saying that his manner came across as disdainful of modern elves and that he appeared racist. And, yes, from what I've seen so far the other elves, including Solas, and races are racist for the most part.

 

I'm curious, who are you referring to as your friends? Are you talking about the people on the forum or the characters? I understand how being attacked can make you defensive but expressing a different opinion is not attacking you. I don't get upset when people attack Solas even though my Lavellan romanced him. It just strikes me as odd that people dismiss other people as lowly 'Solasmancers' in defense of their hostile attitude towards differing opinions.

Isn't that what we all do? We make educated guesses when not staring at gorgeous thighs. It's what I do any way. But that's not head cannon. It's perception. 

 

 

I did not say I know how he feels about other races. I know what he says to a Dalish elf in particular. Sure... any interpretation outside of the exact statement is not fact. It is feeling and educated guessing. I listen very carefully to what he says at the end in particular. We know that the well and Mythal was everything to him. It has been his existence for a very long time. For him to gracefully hand it over in the end is a big deal. He could have fought to the end. He declares there is a righteousness in the Inquisitor. He expresses a warning about the well because the Inquisitor is mortal. He gives away more than he had to. At least that is how I interpreted it. But who knows... I'm probably reading it all wrong. For all I know he had a pool party scheduled for later and is annoyed the well will no longer be the venue of choice.

 

I found his manner to be defensive and annoyed. I believe there was eluding to the possibility others have come in claiming kinship only to try and deceive him. Regardless, Inky is an invader. That is a fact. I wouldn't be welcoming to someone coming into my home either. I can't decide if it is racism or if it is simply anger at being invaded... again. No one will ever know. We could go back and forth about this all day. 

 

I come here to have fun with the people who frequent this thread. When I speak of friends, I mean those who chat with me on this thread. Errr... uhhh unless you want to get into my personal life. I have a group of friends who like to embarrass the crap out of me for being such a DA nerd and my elf fetish. But that is another story.

 

I apologize then. What I have had in the past is people come in here from the Solas thread and have a go at me because I stated an opinion about Solas that they do not like. That is unfortunately what I am accustomed to happening around here. I stay to support the character and to mostly have a laugh with SS, Tielis, Vorthrad, BB when BB is around and new people who pop in. I became defensive when it felt assumption were being made about how I formed my opinion. It felt personal.

 

The people in this thread. You know... actual people. As far as I am aware the game consists of pixels, meshes and some awesome voice actors. It's how you say it. 

 

Pfffft nope. I had three Lavellan's who fell into the Solas trap several times over. It's not because it is a solasmancer, it's because it wouldn't be the first time that hostility has found me. Again, it's the way that opinion was related. It felt personal and patronizing. 

[Abelas Forever!]

Welcome Gooseberry!

[maia0407]

I guess we'll just have to disagree about what head cannon is. I think interpretation and perspective are what makes up head cannon but in the end the actual words used don't really matter as long as the intent of what is being said is understood. I'm guessing that calling something head cannon comes off as dismissive to you? I don't really intend it to be although thinking back I can think of instances where I've seen 'head cannon' used to dismiss another person's ideas as invalid. At any rate, I can't really control whether you take my opinion personally as I didn't direct anything at you. In the end, it's a disagreement over video game characters; differing opinions aren't personal.

 

I will say that racism is defined as a belief that your own race is superior to others. In regards to the elves, I'd argue that Abelas' opinion that modern elves are mere 'shadows' came across as him feeling that the ancient elves are superior. Again, that superiority is the essence of racism and it's exactly why the word fits Solas, in particular, perfectly. Racism is a very loaded term and people easily become defensive when the term is applied to them or characters they love. Studies have shown that racism may be an almost inborn survival trait. We all express it to some extent although some are worse than others. It's one of those things we need to be aware of and try to overcome. I certainly think Abelas will be able to overcome racism if he has the chance to get to know modern elves and other races.

[Babelas]

I forgot my favorite kitchen ginger. Serelir  

[Gooseberry]

Thank you. Was DAI your first DA game? Well... I've always seen them as different. I am uncertain that they share the same beliefs to be honest. Abelas seems to have accepted that Elvhenan is gone and will never come again. He has kind of moved on in some respects. I also wonder if he would want to restore it because without Mythal I am uncertain it would ever be the same for him. Any thoughts? I'd be curious to know your opinions on the elves. It's always nice when we get a fresh voice around here.

 

Yes DAI  was my first. You can imagine my incompetent stumbling for hours until I started to read lore and grasp what and who and... *sigh* Have tried the others in series but couldnt get the hang of controls. I like to explore and find things, not so much to combat. And yes i like the shards,sorry I know a lot of people are not so fond of finding shards.

 

Hmm....closest if I could describe those 2 elves to you would be Solas as a flame,bright and red,pure,lusty and dangerous,protective,fierce. The kind that tends to start slowly and warm you but given enough food burns everything down with 30 seconds. Abelas...feels to me like almost veilfire,slow but methodic,secure,blue/green,nurturing,warm in the core. Its like when you are 16 you are drawn to Solas and when you get older and mature more you look for the likes of Abelas.

 

Elves in temple of Mythal must be very dedicated to stay for so long. When dedication and religion turns to cult? I cannot offer you very deep view of my thoughts and I am not good at debates but...I can try. For us as humans it is very difficult to grasp the immortality.I think that is the base where we can go wrong. We just cannot see it, not really. As to the ancient elves I just feel the society currently on different corners of Thedas is still same as it was in ancient Arlathan- pride and lust for power,frames and lines and bounds is running rampart in the ranks of humans,qunari and even elves. Feels like Indian cast system. Mythal,Andraste-pillars of light. History doesnt mention tho the small ripples and characters that made small differences and it feels like same play played over and over again with different actors. What makes it interesting for me is different costumes and makeup that is used. Ancient elves should not be so proud. They had wonders in their lives but all that was based to their immortality. Humans cannot reach those hights with the short lifetime. Within ancient elves there were elves that were cruel, smart, angry, dark, kind. I have to dig into lore more deeply when I have possibility to buy Trespasser(and ps4 lol) and I probably made total fool of myself now trying to explain my rambling thoughts in a language that is not my first. I just strongly believe that Abelas would be capable to adjust and adapt in the current world while Dread Wolf is dreaming of past and glory totally discarding the rest of the world. It almost feels like Solas is a construct, a wrong that cannot fit.

[Babelas]

I guess we'll just have to disagree about what head cannon is. I think interpretation and perspective are what makes up head cannon but in the end the actual words used don't really matter as long as the intent of what is being said is understood. I'm guessing that calling something head cannon comes off as dismissive to you? I don't really intend it to be although thinking back I can think of instances where I've seen 'head cannon' used to dismiss another person's ideas as invalid. At any rate, I can't really control whether you take my opinion personally as I didn't direct anything at you. In the end, it's a disagreement on video game characters and differing opinions aren't personal.

 

I will say that racism is defined as a belief that your own race is superior to others. In regards to the elves, I'd argue that Abelas' opinion that modern elves are mere 'shadows' came across as him feeling that the ancient elves are superior. Again, that superiority is the essence of racism and it's exactly why the word fits Solas, in particular, perfectly. Racism is a very loaded term and people easily become defensive when the term is applied to them or characters they love. Studies have shown that racism may be an almost inborn survival trait. We all express it to some extent although some are worse than others. It's one of those things we need to be aware of and try to overcome. I certainly think Abelas will be able to overcome racism if he has the chance to get to know modern elves and other races

Considering the Elvhen are on the brink of extinction I'd say a healthy dose of racism is justified in this case. I have had head cannon used in an extremely ugly way against me, yes. I apologize.You seem like a very reasonable person. I've just had too much of the unreasonable aimed at me.

 

I have stopped expressing my opinions of Solas for the most part. Really, I enjoy coming here more for the amusement and a laugh than anything. It is doubtful Abelas will return in any major role in the next game. I know SS keeps holding out hope. She is stubborn that way I think Abelas does have the potential to overcome many of the issues that seem to linger with Solas. But whether BW will allow us to explore that... I have no idea. Perhaps, if we are lucky.

[Abelas Forever!]

Been reading this thread off and on for awhile now and just wanted to pipe in to show my support for Abelas. I really liked his character design and his personality during the brief moments we had with him. He was very mysterious and showed a sense of quiet duty and honor along with deep sadness. I really wanted to know more about him and hope that he returns. With all that being said, I do think he comes off as being racist.

 

From what we've learned about the ancient elves, they see themselves as above other races of their time and definitely above the modern races. The ancient elves had some undefined quality to them as a result of their connection to the fade that modern people don't have. This, more than anything, seems to be why Abelas doesn't consider modern elves to be his people. They lack that quality and the ancient elves don't seem to be able to see value in people that lack that connection to the fade.

 

It seems to me that some of you have become very invested in your head cannon of what Abelas is like; I'm guessing that's understandably due to spending so much time thinking about and even writing fiction about him. But, you've got to understand that your idea of what he is like is just as valid as another person's interpretation, especially due to the limited amount of time we had with him. He comes off as racist; but, he can be reasoned with as evidenced at the temple and I think his views could be changed.

When I said that Abelas isn't racist it wasn't my head canon. It's how I saw the situation. When this racist discussion started I tried to see the situation in a way that he would be racist but I didn't see it. I don't see any proof that he would consider his race superior than other races. He is angry at Dalish but there isn't anything that would prove me that he said that because of their race. Also the thing that Abelas doesn't consider modern elves as his people doesn't prove that he is racist. Do we even know what he means by his people? Sentinels? Ancient elves? Anyway modern elves are not his people because they are different. There is nothing racist in saying that.

 

I think there are different kinds of ancient elves. But if some of them are racists it doesn't prove that Abelas is racist. Also if some of the modern elves are racists, it doesn't mean that Abelas is racist.

 

However I can see why people might think that he is racist but there is no evidence that he actually is racist.

[maia0407]

Considering the Elvhen are on the brink of extinction I'd say a healthy dose of racism is justified in this case. I have had head cannon used in an extremely ugly way against me, yes. I apologize.You seem like a very reasonable person. I've just had too much of the unreasonable aimed at me.

 

I have stopped expressing my opinions of Solas for the most part. Really, I enjoy coming here more for the amusement and a laugh than anything. It is doubtful Abelas will return in any major role in the next game. I know SS keeps holding out hope. She is stubborn that way I think Abelas does have the potential to overcome many of the issues that seem to linger with Solas. But whether BW will allow us to explore that... I have no idea. Perhaps, if we are lucky.

Aw, thanks! You seem very reasonable as well. It's always nice to converse with someone that you might disagree with and not go over the ledge into ugliness. See, sometimes women can be awesome to each other as well!

[Tielis]

I'll catch up with this thread later, as at the moment I am entranced by Babelas' "Stolen Dance" story.  I have just read the chapter that Zevran hijacked, and I am grinning from ear to ear.  It is so easy to read the dialogue in the character's voices!

 

You're doing the Maker's work, dear.  Please keep writing it.  

[Babelas]

Yes DAI  was my first. You can imagine my incompetent stumbling for hours until I started to read lore and grasp what and who and... *sigh* Have tried the others in series but couldnt get the hang of controls. I like to explore and find things, not so much to combat. And yes i like the shards,sorry I know a lot of people are not so fond of finding shards.

 

Hmm....closest if I could describe those 2 elves to you would be Solas as a flame,bright and red,pure,lusty and dangerous,protective,fierce. The kind that tends to start slowly and warm you but given enough food burns everything down with 30 seconds. Abelas...feels to me like almost veilfire,slow but methodic,secure,blue/green,nurturing,warm in the core. Its like when you are 16 you are drawn to Solas and when you get older and mature more you look for the likes of Abelas.

 

Elves in temple of Mythal must be very dedicated to stay for so long. When dedication and religion turns to cult? I cannot offer you very deep view of my thoughts and I am not good at debates but...I can try. For us as humans it is very difficult to grasp the immortality.I think that is the base where we can go wrong. We just cannot see it, not really. As to the ancient elves I just feel the society currently on different corners of Thedas is still same as it was in ancient Arlathan- pride and lust for power,frames and lines and bounds is running rampart in the ranks of humans,qunari and even elves. Feels like Indian cast system. Mythal,Andraste-pillars of light. History doesnt mention tho the small ripples and characters that made small differences and it feels like same play played over and over again with different actors. What makes it interesting for me is different costumes and makeup that is used. Ancient elves should not be so proud. They had wonders in their lives but all that was based to their immortality. Humans cannot reach those hights with the short lifetime. Within ancient elves there were elves that were cruel, smart, angry, dark, kind. I have to dig into lore more deeply when I have possibility to buy Trespasser(and ps4 lol) and I probably made total fool of myself now trying to explain my rambling thoughts in a language that is not my first. I just strongly believe that Abelas would be capable to adjust and adapt in the current world while Dread Wolf is dreaming of past and glory totally discarding the rest of the world. It almost feels like Solas is a construct, a wrong that cannot fit.

Oh hey I understand completely. Ah well you are in good company. My DA adventures started with DA2. It was the first Bioware game I had ever played and I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I fell in love with my Hawke. DA2 isn't the best of the series. I will be first admit it. But I did love how it was a self contained rags to riches story. Then I fell in love with Fenris once I understood him. LOL. Long after I played DA2 I found the forum. People continued to hound me to play DAO until I finally did. That was when I truly fell in love with the franchise and began my insane lore quest. But at that point, I wasn't a huge DA elf fan. I did enjoy city elf to be fair. The elf love came with DAI mostly because I'd always loved Tolkien's elves. Abelas is the nearest thing I have seen to a Tolkien elf in DAI and I think it's why he means so much to me.

 

I'm the same. I like the scenery in DAI and I loved my house in DA2 and the camp in DAO. I loved just chatting to my companions and learning about them. I did the shard quest twice. LOL.I could not do it again after that.

 

Hmm....closest if I could describe those 2 elves to you would be Solas as a flame,bright and red,pure,lusty and dangerous,protective,fierce. The kind that tends to start slowly and warm you but given enough food burns everything down with 30 seconds. Abelas...feels to me like almost veilfire,slow but methodic,secure,blue/green,nurturing,warm in the core. Its like when you are 16 you are drawn to Solas and when you get older and mature more you look for the likes of Abelas.

 

I adore how you described them! Same. Solas is like the appetizer hehehe. Sorry Solasmancers. Abelas mmmmmmmm so much potential.

 

I enjoyed your thoughts on the ancient elves. I hadn't considered it as a caste system before. But you know I think it comes down to what you were saying

 

History doesnt mention tho the small ripples and characters that made small differences 

 

Those are the people who are forgotten. Those are the Abelas's and others who did the dirty work. See... I would love for Abelas to be taken out of his current situation and we get a chance to see him experience freedom. He is a slave with a slave's views of the world. At least that is how I feel about him. It's quite possible he had to scheme and murder to reach the top to becoming high priest. I'm not sure. But I like to imagine what it would be like for him to truly discover freedom and to understand how incredibly awful it is to have a society built on the blood of slaves. Maybe he does understand. I don't know. It still bothers me he sees mythal as a god.

 

What I think it comes down to is what it always comes down to: people all want the same things. This is a commonality that even Solas can't ignore and I think it is what catches him out with Lavellan or whatever Inky wins his respect.  

 

 just strongly believe that Abelas would be capable to adjust and adapt in the current world while Dread Wolf is dreaming of past and glory totally discarding the rest of the world. It almost feels like Solas is a construct, a wrong that cannot fit.

 

I agree though I know people hate it. I think Abelas has accepted his people are gone. I think he is bitter about it but I think from what he said at the temple that he just accept Elvhenan is gone. Solas believes that Abelas would change it if he had the power. I'm not so certain. Solas believes he knows what is best for the world. He believes he can make up for his mistake but he doesn't seem to care that it is going to hurt so many people. It's tragic. 

 

I enjoyed your post! Don't worry about it not being your first language. I think you did a wonderful job of expressing how you feel. I feel bad I can't speak two languages so never worry about it.

[Vorathrad]

Welcome Gooseberry and maia!!

 

I will try to find the middle ground in the racist-not racist debate (because I love finding middle grounds) It really comes down to how wide or narrow one's cathegory for racist is, and how much you think Abelas situation justifies his views on the rest of the world (at least the little we learn) It's the same with people seeing Anders as terrorist or Solas as mass murderer (or even genocidal) To what degree you include each of those characters on those cathegories I think it depends largely on your personal background, your relationship with the character and your understanding of their motives. To me Abelas is not racist because I understand that his situation doesn't allow him to have better views on other races. In fact, for someone who has spent the waking hours of the last centuries fighting trespassers in the temple (he calls you exactly that word, interesting...), I was surprised that he was willing to do anything with you other than killing you on the spot. Maia, it's very interesting what you said about racism being adaptative; in Abelas case, I'd say a degree of racism and despise for the modern world is needed for him to fulfill his mission.

 

Also, today I watched again conversations with Abelas and he says that the sentinels duty is over now that the well is gone, and that by drinking from the Well you will be bound as they are bound. So it seems that the geas passes from the sentinels to whoever drank from the well. I think it's curious that Mythal chose to enslave the sentinels so long as the well remained untouched, as they would be useful for her revenge. Maybe she knew that once someone would be able to drink from the well, her plans would be well on their way? It's always so difficult to say with this elf 

 

I also tried to translate what Solas says to Abelas with the elven translations on the wiki, and I think it's something like "Your sorrows are over/finished now" So Abelas is now free to do whatever he wants, which I think possibly is finding and joining other ancient elves. I'm thinking now, what if not all remaining ancient elves agree with Solas plan? I mean, some of them might have lost all hope or reclaiming their world or may find that this world doesn't deserve to disappear and their time has passed.

 

The Masked Empire spoilers ahead

Spoiler

As far as I know from reading the Solas thread because I didn't read TME, Felassan is an ancient elf and he ends up refusing to help who seems to be Fen'Harel, because he thinks modern Thedas deserves a chance.

 

Re: dead characters coming back, I completely understand that it's not somewhere devs want to go. It invalidates the choices of some people. But I also think Abelas dead is not so important that they can dismiss it somehow. I think it was Silent who said that it's more of a game mechanics to let you drink from the well even if Abelas doesn't allow you to. Bringing him back wouldn't be so dramatic as, say,

Spoiler

a qunarified Iron Bull.

 

Btw we are not tagging Trespasser spoilers anymore, are we?

 

[Serelir]

I'll catch up with this thread later, as at the moment I am entranced by Babelas' "Stolen Dance" story.  I have just read the chapter that Zevran hijacked, and I am grinning from ear to ear.  It is so easy to read the dialogue in the character's voices!

 

You're doing the Maker's work, dear.  Please keep writing it.  

Yes, I am, too! And I second Tielis' remarks. Also, I can't stand to argue with people. As my son learned in nursery school: we each have our opinions. I despise Sera, for instance, yet I manage to be friends with people who adore her (do I think they suffer from masochistic delusions? Yes, yes, I do, but I still like them, and they like me, despite my preference for cruel, sneering elven men with mighty thighs). The beauty of stories and even historical documents is that they can have multiple interpretations. Each of us here is fascinated with Abelas, yet we can see him very differently. 

 

Welcome to Maia and Gooseberry! How do you like your coffee?