106 réponses à ce sujet

[wowitschris]

...and needs to be nerfed.

 

My level 16 party appears on Dragon Island and sees the level 19 dragon there (this is on Hard difficulty).  Everyone other than Vivienne ends up insta-killed, but then Vivienne goes on to solo the rest of the fight.

 

In addition to insane survivability (Clean Burn + Spirit Blade spam + Fade Shield + Fade Cloak), prior to this fight I had never seen such huge damage numbers appear so often (Spirit Blade's massive bonus against guard meant thousands of damage every other second against this dragon whenever it had its guard up).

 

I mean, I can kinda understand how these things make it out of playtest; it reminds me of when Skullclamp appeared on the scene (and was quickly banned) in Magic: The Gathering (http://magic.wizards...w-ye-2004-06-04). But man, Bioware, if you want to be taken credibly for well-though game design, you need to bring the nerfhammer down on the Knight-Enchanter, hard.

[Zachriel]

I'm playing a KE now, and it's ridiculous.  Nothing can hurt me.  I can literally win every single fight in the game by myself by casting barrier and then placing a heavy object on my number 2 key (that's my current spirit blade key).  I don't even have to pay attention to the fight most times.

 

Dragons are a pathetic joke for this character.  They can't hit me with breath attacks because I'm standing right under them the whole time.  Their wing vortex does nothing for the same reason.  Their bite, claw, and tail swipe attacks hit hard, but not nearly hard enough to break my uber barrier.  Those attacks are also slow, so by the time the dragon is ready to do another one my barrier is back up to full.  Sometimes they jump/fly away, but big deal.  Fade Step and I'm right back in spirit blade range.  And yeah, spirit blade damage against Guard is INSANE.

 

What I find F-ING HILARIOUS about it is that in one of the game play live streams, Mike Laidlaw described the KE play style as "high risk, high reward."   Seriously, he said that.  WTF was he smoking?  It's more like no risk, all reward.

[sunnydxmen]

no it needs upgrades even further nerf rift mage  in necromancer lol.

[Zachriel]

You're at the point where just being an inquisitor or party member is overpowered. It's not really knight enchanter specifically. Look at a tempest spamming flask of fire + 1000 cuts and then say KE is overpowered.

 

I haven't seen that combo yet.  Are you talking over powered just in terms of pure damage or can a rogue with that combo be as unstoppable as the KE as well?  In terms of damage, the KE is not the most impressive.  My Rift Mage did more DPS by far.  

 

What makes the KE overpowered is that it is invincible.  A KE gains barrier very time he does damage to an enemy with anything - spirit blade, basic attack, spell, grenade, whatever.  The spirit blade hits everything in a very wide, nearly 360 arc.  Enemies behind me have taken damage from it, and barrier regenerates for every hit.  The spirit blade upgrade allows it to deflect projectiles back to their source, so I don't have to worry about enemy archers.  I kill them with their own arrows without even trying while beating on melee enemies in close range.  As stated before, the spirit blade also does massive damage to Guard, so even enemies that should be tougher than usual are not.  

 

It does take mana to use spirit blade, but with Combat Clarity you gain a bonus 50% mana regen for each nearby enemy so you never run out and always have enough to use the blade.  With Veiled Riposte, enemies take damage every time they hit me while barrier is up, which is literally ALWAYS.  Fade cloak grants invulnerability for two seconds, but that's not its true power.  With Decloak, I also detonate when it wears off if I'm standing close enough to an enemy.  The detonation does spirit damage in a small AOE and knocks enemies down.  

 

My KE doesn't need any party members or potions.  So far, nothing in the game has been able to kill me or even do any real damage to me.  All I have to do is cast Barrier, then hold down my Spirit Blade button and watch everything die.  No strategy or skill required, no focus required, just cast one spell then hold down a button until everything's dead.  Whenever its available, I'll stop swinging my spirit blade just long enough to use Fade Cloak for a little extra dps burst.

[juliet_capulet]

Shhhh!

[Spectre Impersonator]

 Everyone other than Vivienne ends up insta-killed, but then Vivienne goes on to solo the rest of the fight.

I've been able to do the same with sword and shield warrior Inquisitor. My whole team dies early and it ends up with me blocking blows to build up unlimited guard while I take tiny bits of health away from the dragon in between claw swipes.

[In Exile]

KE is a good "safe" class in that it's hard to screw up the build but once you become familiar with DA:I other classes are more fun. 

[Shahadem]

It isn't so much that KE are so good, it's that mages are so bleh.

[thanotos omega]

Don't forget that it's also the easiest of the mage specs to unlock, you could have all the wisp essence you need before reaching skyhold, and the main drops for it are in fallow mire rather then western approach/exalted planes or some other high level zone,

 

And no one really dislikes it,

 

And finally it has the best synergy with the damage boost based on your missing mana passive from storm tree, since it's the only class with a sub 50 mana damage spell,

 

It really needs to be toned way down, as it stands it's almost a freaking Marry Sue.........AND I'S NOT EVEN A CHARACTER!

[Cid Revolution]

This is a single player game where you make choices on how to play. If it's too easy, turn up the difficulty and handicap yourself. I don't see why your preferences should be made standard for everyone.

[thanotos omega]

This is a single player game where you make choices on how to play. If it's too easy, turn up the difficulty and handicap yourself. I don't see why your preferences should be made standard for everyone.

Because all new content is balanced around all known options, so some classes will get screwed over so that KE isn't able to curb stomp a new boss, kind of like the Harvester was borderline impossible without a mage,

[Realyn]

This is a single player game where you make choices on how to play. If it's too easy, turn up the difficulty and handicap yourself. I don't see why your preferences should be made standard for everyone.

Normally I agree with this in single player games, but the problem is that even on Nightmare difficulty, it trivializes the entire game the moment you get it and respec into it. While I find the KE spec very interesting, the fact that it turns even the hardest difficulty into a glorified interactive story instead of something of a challenge is just stupid.

 

Because I like to have at least a semblance of challenge in a game and not play an interactive movie, I'm basically excluded from speccing into KE. At least with the Tempest spec, you can choose not to exploit the Flask of Fire bug. I'm not saying it shouldn't be powerful, I'm just saying it shouldn't have survivability  this high. Unlimited health + unlimited mana + ultra short cooldowns = bad class design imho.

 

I'd much rather see the KE spec have rogue- and/or 2H warrior-like squishiness and comparable damage for high risk/reward gameplay instead of the no risk/high reward gameplay it has now.

[Plouton]

In my opinion, the only thing that makes KE truly overpowered in some battles is it's damage against Guard. In fights were opponents use Guard often it allows KE to maintain huge barrier indefinitely. But overall, KE have poor mobility and mediocre damage output for melee class. Yes, you can easily solo Pride demon, but try to fight a couple of Terrors with same one-button tactics - you will be stunlocked and killed pretty fast (at least on NM difficulty).

 

And, btw, if dragons can't land their abilities on character due to positioning issues, it's problem with dragons, not KE. KE is not only class who can use various game exploits.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think it's silly to demand nerfs for single player classes. So what if Knight-Enchanters are powerful? Have you tried playing a Reaver yet? Take Iron Bull for a spin. Sera is another insane damage dealer. Compared to those two, KEs are just about right.

 

And really, why shouldn't you be powerful? After all your adventures, all your battles... shouldn't you be strong?

 

My first Warden-Commander was an Arcane Warrior, Spirit Healer and Battlemage. He was completely unstoppable, near invincible and killed everything just by standing next to it (more or less). My Inquisitor KE isn't even close to that.

 

Class balancing is something best left to the MP side of the game.

[Proteus7]

Cassandra can also solo dragons easily if built correctly. I think the single player aspect of this game is fine.

[ent1]

KE is insanely durable with mediocre damage. The same can be said of Champion. I suppose you expect a warrior to be durable and a mage not so much, but they're both basically support classes. If anything is truly overpowered right now it is Tempest.

[Adrianna]

Its not so much tempest is OP.. its just bugged.. once they fix the bug with flask of fire tempest wont be OP anymore.

[Lebannen]

 

But overall, KE have poor mobility and mediocre damage output for melee class. Yes, you can easily solo Pride demon, but try to fight a couple of Terrors with same one-button tactics - you will be stunlocked and killed pretty fast (at least on NM difficulty).
.

You must be playing some other NM difficulty than what I am playing.... My KE has died ONCE to the lvl 23 dragon when I tried to kill him at 17.

A group of mobs? It isnt fair they can keep me stun locked but with +6 to guard per hit they still cant kill me. The class is overpowered and needs to be nerfed HARD.

[Plouton]

You must be playing some other NM difficulty than what I am playing.... My KE has died ONCE to the lvl 23 dragon when I tried to kill him at 17.

A group of mobs? It isnt fair they can keep me stun locked but with +6 to guard per hit they still cant kill me. The class is overpowered and needs to be nerfed HARD.

 

Re-read parts of my post regarding dragons and mobs with guard please. :/

[BLOOD LORDS]

If you don't like the barrier/melee play-style either don't take the spec, or don't take the damage to barrier passive. I'm playing on hard and even being often over-leveled most of the time I'm not insta-gibbing anything. The specialization has to have really good barrier generation, as it's in melee and the goal is to take no health damage. Blackwall rarely ever loses guard, and if I'm playing Iron Bull his guard will never hit zero either. If the only barrier generation was the spell then you would get killed all the time, you have no guard, no blocks, and only one mobility spell.

 

Anyhow, I thought I was supposed to be the badass Qunari mage everyone called to get things done? I sure feel like that woman when playing KE.

[JaegerBane]

I think it's silly to demand nerfs for single player classes. So what if Knight-Enchanters are powerful? Have you tried playing a Reaver yet? Take Iron Bull for a spin. Sera is another insane damage dealer. Compared to those two, KEs are just about right.
 
And really, why shouldn't you be powerful? After all your adventures, all your battles... shouldn't you be strong?
 
My first Warden-Commander was an Arcane Warrior, Spirit Healer and Battlemage. He was completely unstoppable, near invincible and killed everything just by standing next to it (more or less). My Inquisitor KE isn't even close to that.
 
Class balancing is something best left to the MP side of the game.

+1. While I'd prefer balance amongst classes in any game, this is easier said than done and I've yet to hear a single idea for nerfing the KE that wouldn't render it completely useless or completely boring. In a single player game balance comes after the rule of cool.

And yeah, my warden commander was the same. Complete juggernaut and I loved it. Back then, we also had a thousand million people screeching about how OP it was and we also had zero ideas as to how to fix it without wrecking the spec altogether... So fortunately, it was left alone for the most part.

The KE is unfortunate that it's an all or nothing spec. Take away its fade shield and it's basically an underpowered rogue that cast spells. Make it charge barrier only on melee hits and you've forced it into the melee-exclusive button spammer that all the 15-min spec experts claim it is now. Fiddle with its powers to be less defensive and you remove the use of spirit blade, more defensive and it makes an OP spec even stronger.

I just kind of wish that every time we hear yet another 'OMFG DIS SPEC IS TOO OP HIT TEH NERF BUTTON NERF NERF NERF' we also get a reasonable idea of how to nerf it without wrecking it. So sick of people bringing a MP mentality into a single player game.

[Lebannen]

Simple, reduce if not eliminate the barrier generation and remove on hit guard. Make it into a glass cannon if need be, but the defensive skills are over the top.  I am wearing cloth I should not be able to lollerskate a lvl 20 dragon on nightmare solo with 3-4 adds and not have to worry about popping potions or kiting.

 

But this is not the most overpowered class in the game, I still stand by 1h/shield reaver.  That class can have the +6 to guard all the defensive ability and stupid offense.

[LoudAngryJerk]

personally i'd rather the other 2 specs get buffed than knight enchanter getting nerfed...