106 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Don't like, then don't play it. Asking for nerfs in single player is just... wrong.

[Krim]

Don't like, then don't play it. Asking for nerfs in single player is just... wrong.

 

I like KE so i play it. Still one can suggest something in a forum that is called "Feedback & Suggestion" when you think something can improve your gaming experience even more. That is the whole idea of this forum. I don't run around in this game and like everything like a fanboy. So there is absolutely nothing wrong about talking about and suggesting a nerf for the KE.

[Anaeme]

I do not want the KE to get nerfed...the other classess especially the rogue should get buffed

[Anaeme]

we really should focus on what buffs the other classes need

[Krim]

Then open a topic about it. This is about the KE.

[Tensai]

KE does the least damage compared to the other two specs. And it doesn't even play in the same league than rogues and warriors.

it deals enough damage, outclasses warriors in tanking and damage

[Realyn]

Don't like, then don't play it. Asking for nerfs in single player is just... wrong.

 

That's the whole problem; I really like the class, but the fact that it's pretty much invincible kills every ounce of fun I can have with it.

 

If it were only invincible on casual/normal, I'd have no problem with it. But the difficulties 'hard' and 'nightmare' are called that for a reason. The KE ignores that reason, strolls into a zone, farts and everything either dies or runs away because they can't do **** against the infinite shields the KE has. When you play on nightmare, where other classes can and will be one shotted by certain abilties, and the KE just goes 'lolnope' and refreshes it's full shields in no time, it's just beyond retardedly powerful (defensively speaking).

 

Also, for the people claiming the KE isn't a powerful spec DPS-wise... lawl... Thats only true if you only spam Spirit Blade. If you spec into the +damage by sacrificing shields with the Chaotic Focus skill and no cooldown from the fire tree, you can pretty much easily set up double 20+k damage fire mines while still not even losing a sliver of health. And it adds to every fire spell in your arsenal. Considering you have infinite shields and can couple it with +50% shield strength from the spirit tree, it's basically a permanent and huge increase in damage,

 

Add to that the retardedly low cooldowns you can get from the fire tree as well, I can spam Fire Mine about every 5-7 seconds.

 

People thinking 'KE = Spirit Blade spam' have no idea how powerful KE can really be.

 

Normally I'm against balancing SP games, but this class is beyond rediculous.

[DaemionMoadrin]

That's the whole problem; I really like the class, but the fact that it's pretty much invincible kills every ounce of fun I can have with it.

 

If it were only invincible on casual/normal, I'd have no problem with it. But the difficulties 'hard' and 'nightmare' are called that for a reason. The KE ignores that reason, strolls into a zone, farts and everything either dies or runs away because they can't do **** against the infinite shields the KE has. When you play on nightmare, where other classes can and will be one shotted by certain abilties, and the KE just goes 'lolnope' and refreshes it's full shields in no time, it's just beyond retardedly powerful (defensively speaking).

 

Also, for the people claiming the KE isn't a powerful spec DPS-wise... lawl... Thats only true if you only spam Spirit Blade. If you spec into the +damage by sacrificing shields with the Chaotic Focus skill and no cooldown from the fire tree, you can pretty much easily set up double 20+k damage fire mines while still not even losing a sliver of health. And it adds to every fire spell in your arsenal. Considering you have infinite shields and can couple it with +50% shield strength from the spirit tree, it's basically a permanent and huge increase in damage,

 

Add to that the retardedly low cooldowns you can get from the fire tree as well, I can spam Fire Mine about every 5-7 seconds.

 

People thinking 'KE = Spirit Blade spam' have no idea how powerful KE can really be.

 

Normally I'm against balancing SP games, but this class is beyond rediculous.

 

That's not the KE spec then, it's Fire. Somewhere in this thread I already pointed out that a mage specced for range can out-dps a KE and while the KE spec enables you to do so more often, it still has nothing to do with the Knight-Enchanter itself.

[Realyn]

That's not the KE spec then, it's Fire. Somewhere in this thread I already pointed out that a mage specced for range can out-dps a KE and while the KE spec enables you to do so more often, it still has nothing to do with the Knight-Enchanter itself.

 

If thats the case, specializations don't exist in your world unless you spend 0 points outside your chosen spec. If a Rift mage suddenly an Ice spec because it can solo shatter frozen mobs? Is an Assassin rogue suddenly a Dual Wield/Subterfuge hybrid because it takes advantage of the passives in those trees? Is a Templar warrior a Vanguard spec because it specs into the Vanguard tree for Guard? 

 

KE is so powerful because it synergizes so extremely well with other trees while even without it, you're still completely and utterly invincible by using one or two skills and a single passive ability.

[DaemionMoadrin]

When I fight against a target without barrier or guard I do ~450dmg with each Spirit Blade attack. I get 30% of that damage back for my barrier. That's 135 barrier every 1.5sec or so? On a barrier that constantly drains away and is beaten on.

Next ability is Fade Cloak, which does 1000% weapon damage on de-cloak. Let's say that adds 1000 dmg each time I used it.

 

Doesn't sound that op yet, right? Definitely not completely and utterly invincible. I may not have died yet but I did get hurt on occasion.

 

Now I add spells available to every mage, like Fire Mine and suddendly the damage and the barrier go way up. Could be considered op.

 

The question now is... what happens if you nerf the KE spec to balance its synergy with Inferno? Answer: You -force- KEs to spec into fire because that will be the only spec that remains viable. Storm or Winter don't have a high damage spell that can keep up.

 

Although... you may have a point...

 

Hmm. Okay. Thinking about it I got a few ideas for nerfing/balancing that might work.

1. Change the way recharging the barrier works, for example have it increase 100 points every second for as long as you do damage. Any damage.

or

2. Limit the max amount of barrier you can get back through doing damage to... I don't know, 500? per attack/spell.

 

Guess you were right after all. There are ways to balance the KE without making it obsolete.

[fireproof_boots]

That's not the KE spec then, it's Fire. Somewhere in this thread I already pointed out that a mage specced for range can out-dps a KE and while the KE spec enables you to do so more often, it still has nothing to do with the Knight-Enchanter itself.

 

Yes, it is KE.  Its the synergy between KE and the inferno tree.  You get the massive damage of fire mine + chaotic focus, except its never not buffed by barrier because you always have full barrier.  On top of that the cooldown is reset crazy fast because of spirit blade + clean burn.  This makes KE capable of insane survivability with great burst damage output.  This is whats OP about them.

 

Sure you can spec out of inferno, focus on spirit and winter and have a purely defensive KE build, but that is a bad KE build.

 

Here's the thing: the entire point of a "nightmare" difficulty should be that it is a place for min/maxers to find the best possible builds, get the most out of them gear wise, and still find a challenge.  That is its purpose.  If, on the highest difficulty a min/maxed build is trivial to play, its too good.

 

So that being said, you don't want to nerf the damage output of the inferno tree because its important for mages to have a high damage tree.  A few ways you could reduce the KEs power:

 

1) spirit blade cannot proc clean burn

2) I really like your idea of capping barrier returns from fade shield.  Cap it to like 1/3 of your maximum or something.

3) reduce decloaking blast damage

4) Add something to chaotic focus like: barriers cannot be recharged for 5 seconds.  This won't effect range mages much since they aren't constantly living off barrier like KEs but will make inferno+chaotic focus at least feel like a trade-off between doing awesome damage and survivability for a KE.

[squidney2k1]

Set Vivienne to have the preferred abilities Spirit Blade and Barrier. Set everything else to disabled.

Watch her never die, like Blackwall

[StrayChild83]

Set Vivienne to have the preferred abilities Spirit Blade and Barrier. Set everything else to disabled.

Watch her never die, like Blackwall

 

Not true, AI doesn't even know how to spam spirit blade fast enough and just walks to melee range to take more hits.

[squidney2k1]

Not true, AI doesn't even know how to spam spirit blade fast enough and just walks to melee range to take more hits.

Very true. Set power useage to 10% and she spams it a lot. If thise are the only 2 abilities available, she will always use it. I've been using that setup for her on Hard the entire time and she hardly ever goes down....and that's with the AI control. I never jave to tell her to use Spirit Blade.

[Thibax]

Please, no nerf.

Go and play with another class or specialization.

If you like Knight Enchanter and don't want an easy game, so just use the abilities that you don't feel overpower. It's an option.

[fireproof_boots]

Please, no nerf.

Go and play with another class or specialization.

If you like Knight Enchanter and don't want an easy game, so just use the abilities that you don't feel overpower. It's an option.

 

Or they could nerf it and you could turn down the difficulty.  A class shouldn't have to play gimped in order to avoid trivializing the game on nightmare mode.

[Thibax]

Or they could nerf it and you could turn down the difficulty.  A class shouldn't have to play gimped in order to avoid trivializing the game on nightmare mode.

 

And if you like real challenges, go and play with the other classes, since with KE is easy

It's not necessary nerf.

 

Don't change the concept of the class because the others aren't strong enough.

It's the same thing to tell someone to study less because the others students don't follow with same performance.

[Spirit Keeper]

While I dislike nerfs in the Singleplayer experience and I find that generally most people calling for nerfs to be whiny babies who do nothing but moan...I will say Knight-Enchanter is a tad to powerful, so if Bioware feels it 'has' to nerf it I would suggest decreasing how much barrier it gets from doing damage to enemies and making it so KE only gets barriers back by using Spirit Blade. I feel like that would 'fix' the issues people have without completely ruining the specialisation.

 

As a side note, Necromancer's spirit pet needs to be made super aggressive to it will actually attack enemies instead of doing absolutely nothing.

[fireproof_boots]

And if you like real challenges, go and play with the other classes, since with KE is easy

It's not necessary nerf.

 

Don't change the concept of the class because the others aren't strong enough.

It's the same thing to tell someone to study less because the others students don't follow with same performance.

 

I don't want to change the concept of the class - just tone down its synergies.  The entire point of having multiple difficulty modes is so that someone can play any class and still have a challenge.  They don't need to be balanced against each other, but no class should trivialize nightmare difficulty.  Why should I not be able to play the class I want because I want a challenge.  And a nerf wouldn't effect you, you could turn down the difficulty and still stomp through everything.  How is that a bad thing?

[Sergwynn]

I don't want to change the concept of the class - just tone down its synergies.  The entire point of having multiple difficulty modes is so that someone can play any class and still have a challenge.  They don't need to be balanced against each other, but no class should trivialize nightmare difficulty.  Why should I not be able to play the class I want because I want a challenge.  And a nerf wouldn't effect you, you could turn down the difficulty and still stomp through everything.  How is that a bad thing?

 

It works both ways, maybe people like playing the KE on nightmare and stomping stuff. Why should they have to reduce the difficulty just because you want it nerfed so you can play it on nightmare. You're no more special then they are.

 

Don't pick the KE cleanburn/firemine combo there's other synergies "No! I wanna play it that way!" but it's really strong, it will make the game kinda easy "Don't care, nerf it!" how about not putting +5 guard on hit on your weapon? "No! I need it!" but on the KE that's another really good synergy "So! Then nerf it!".  

 

Pretty much everyone's argument is, they wanna be OP, but not TOO OP.  They wanna pick all the OP stuff by default, but then complain it makes the game too easy just because the KE can generate barrier on damage.

 

Enough people crying in that vocal minority group and the devs will cave.  Unfortunately, it's already working.  They already removed the detonator ability on the Spirit Blade skill. 

 

For me personally, I switched from a KE to a Rift Mage because I saw the videos of how strong they were. I didn't clench my butt and cry for a nerf because i'm a special snowflake, I just switched specializations and called it a day.  And if I wanted to play the KE and still not trivialize the game, I wouldn't take +5 guard on hit or cleanburn/firemine combo. 

 

This is no different from when the Arcane Warrior in DA:O was crazy good.  Even some of the rogue builds were too. 

[Siegdarth]

Big deal, soloed most part of the game with a 2handed champion, only thing that makes KE too good is because all the skills to play the class effective can be aquired early and are all inside the Specilization, so you don't need to worry about how to mix the passives from other trees.

Archer + assassin = Can solo the NM

Dagger + tempest = can solo the nm

Shield + reaver = can solo the NM

2handed + Champion = Can solo the nm 

Champion can solo any **** with To the Death  and Walking fortress =P. Yay for 2k hits from normal attacks. 

[Dee-Jay]

Yeah I agree,

 

the combat got pretty dull once I specced KE because of my immortality and cheapened the whole experience. The game isn't really hard and it's easy to outlevel much of the content. Yet Dragons at least should remain a challenge. They don't to a KE.

 

Fade-Shield could use a nerf to maybe 20% of damage added to Barrier and Spirit Blade could use a higher mana cost. It wouldn't break the class but maybe make it slightly less ezy-mode.

 

I know it's a single-player game but it does cheapen the entire experience.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yeah I agree,

 

the combat got pretty dull once I specced KE because of my immortality and cheapened the whole experience. The game isn't really hard and it's easy to outlevel much of the content. Yet Dragons at least should remain a challenge. They don't to a KE.

 

Fade-Shield could use a nerf to maybe 20% of damage added to Barrier and Spirit Blade could use a higher mana cost. It wouldn't break the class but maybe make it slightly less ezy-mode.

 

I know it's a single-player game but it does cheapen the entire experience.

 

My idea:

 

1. Change the way recharging the barrier works, for example have it increase 100 points every second for as long as you do damage. Any damage.

or

2. Limit the max amount of barrier you can get back through doing damage to... I don't know, 500? per attack/spell.

[Plouton]

Set Vivienne to have the preferred abilities Spirit Blade and Barrier. Set everything else to disabled.

Watch her never die, like Blackwall

 

 

Can you please show us video, where you fight like that on NM difficulty with some decent target? And please without exploiting "guard on hit" trick - it requires a lot of farming or just luck, and affects KE not more than any other class. Because my experience is completely different. Yesterday I was fighting giants all evening. My Vivienne should be perfect for pure Spirit blade spam - she has all talents put in Spirit and KE trees. Still, I ended up with completely disabling Spirit blade and just let her autoattack from range - first, Spirit blade generates VERY small amount of Barrier when fighting targets with high HP such as giants and dragons (btw, for reasons unknown to me Barrier generation seems to be considerably higher when fighting low-HP mobs), and giants in my game use AOE knockback attacks all the time, thus making KE even more inefficient in melee range. Even if I babysit her, I can survive (with lot of maneuvering, timely used Fade cloak, etc) but her damage output still complete crap.I don't see how it is "overpowered".

 

Of course, maybe i'm doing something wrong, but it's impossible to do something wrong with AI controlled spam of Spirit blade, isn't it?

[Voragoras]

tbh, Blackwall is far more endurant than Vivienne, and he has the added benefit of being able to draw nearly all the aggro with his taunting abilities. In fact, I don't think I've seen him die once, but I've seen Vivienne go down a few times if I'm not micromanaging her AI so she doesn't stand in the middle of every single enemy spamming Spirit Blade but not hitting anything. KE is far from the most OP spec.