1329 réponses à ce sujet

[StingingVelvet]

actually... it's interesting, what will happen with the franchise, because we don't have the figures to know for sure. they tried to attract more mainstram crowd and it seems they've succeeded (reviews, awards), it was all done on their base's expense. fans forgive, right? for the third time? huh... i wonder how many gamers turned away from BW's "rpgs" after DAI

 

i'm talking about misleading promotional materials, the gameplay/bugs/etc, lack of communication, not just the mmorpgish/terrible-hollywood-movie style

 

That's why the final sales will be interesting to see. Bethesda did a great job of attracting a more mainstream audience after Morrowind, even if it cost them some hardcore fans. Dragon Age on the other hand... 2 sold less than the original, and now this one seems to be at the very least not a runaway success. If it ends up selling about the same as Origins then surely it's a failure in the sense that it tried to be a mainstream game and didn't really succeed.

 

I'll definitely be paying attention to see what the overall message here ends up being.

[keyip]

I should point out that Call of Duty Advanced Warfare is rated 4.4 by PC users and 5.7 by PS4 users on Metacritic. It just shows how many people pay attention to the users on Metacritic...

[Cyonan]

I should point out that Call of Duty Advanced Warfare is rated 4.4 by PC users and 5.7 by PS4 users on Metacritic. It just shows how many people pay attention to the users on Metacritic...

 

User reviews on Meta Critic are about as useful as trying to get an intelligent political debate out of YouTube comments.

[Vox Draco]

So a majority of the posts here concerning Dragon Age, Bioware and all the rest is summed up like this?:

 

[Aurok]

You think EA was expecting to move 20 million units?

 

You think EA brass are looking at their competitors' similar flagship studios putting out games selling 15-20m copies and being content with Bioware games consistently selling ~30% of that?

 

To be fair, I do think that is the sort of company Bioware should be keeping in terms of sales. They have the talent to do it and they have created games in the past which are plenty good enough to warrant it (eg. I think ME2 cruises past 10m if not for the baggage of ME1).

 

For me the problem is that they always look at those more successful games and have an incredible knack of learning all the wrong lessons from them. They take the incidental stuff (oh it's open world? let's make ours open world too!) while never truly understanding the factors which really made those games resonate with people. That's a bad habit EA has in general - it's like they're in a permanent state of copying the smart kid's homework while never truly understanding it.

[dlux]

 

5-6 million is never going to be enough for a game with 6 years of development.

DA:O was in preproduction with a very small team for about 2-3 years.

[brzoz]

That's why the final sales will be interesting to see. Bethesda did a great job of attracting a more mainstream audience after Morrowind, even if it cost them some hardcore fans. Dragon Age on the other hand... 2 sold less than the original, and now this one seems to be at the very least not a runaway success. If it ends up selling about the same as Origins then surely it's a failure in the sense that it tried to be a mainstream game and didn't really succeed.

 

I'll definitely be paying attention to see what the overall message here ends up being.

i don't think Bethesda lost that many fans. i think they've adapted (transition from one open world to another is not that difficult, they had that bloody open world of theirs since TES:A) and/or used the modding tool to adjust the game

BW is experimenting with DA, it shows. i'm just not sure if they still enjoy playing games or just are too focused on what stakeholders (EA) have to say

[Aurok]

DA:O was in preproduction with a very small team for about 2-3 years.

 

And let's face it, Origins was just a messy and sloppily managed development. Now that they know what they're doing, if they wanted to make another similar game (let's call it Origins 2) they'd do it start to finish in a regular 2-3 year cycle and still achieve the same ~5m sales.

[keyip]

i don't think Bethesda lost that many fans. 

 

They shed many of their old fans. While both Morrowind and Skyrim are open-world games, Skyrim is far more action oriented than their early works. Their lore took a hit in Oblivion also.

[Vox Draco]

For me the problem is that they always look at those more successful games and have an incredible knack of learning all the wrong lessons from them. They take the incidental stuff (oh it's open world? let's make ours open world too!) while never truly understanding the factors which really made those games resonate with people. That's a bad habit EA has in general - it's like they're in a permanent state of copying the smart kid's homework while never truly understanding it.

I don't get it though ... if they make the levels like tunnels with no more than two forks with one a dead end (DAO) people complain, if they use the same enviroments shamefully over and over again its bad as well, DA2...

 

And when they finally create a beautiful world with a shiteload of stuff to see, explore and go to, with a minimum of reused assets it also leads to complaints...Bioware, give it up already, you'll never win this game

[AlanC9]

Well, they don't know their audience very well if they thought people wanted an "arty" ending. People play RPGs to save the world and get the girl (or guy). If there's some interesting, thought provoking plot twists in there? All the better. But there better be an opportunity for things to end well. Especially in a developer who is known for characters, and character development, to not have those characters that people grew attached to live happily ever after?

The writers basically had no conception of what and who their fan base was to think people would've been satisfied with that ending.

I can never tell if the problem with Bio is supposed to be that they pander to the audience too much, or that they don't pander enough.

[AlanC9]

actually... it's interesting, what will happen with the franchise, because we don't have the figures to know for sure. they tried to attract more mainstram crowd and it seems they've succeeded (reviews, awards), it was all done on their base's expense.

Could I have working definitions of "mainstream" and "base" here? Which tastes determine which group you go into?

[X Equestris]

That's why the final sales will be interesting to see. Bethesda did a great job of attracting a more mainstream audience after Morrowind, even if it cost them some hardcore fans. Dragon Age on the other hand... 2 sold less than the original, and now this one seems to be at the very least not a runaway success. If it ends up selling about the same as Origins then surely it's a failure in the sense that it tried to be a mainstream game and didn't really succeed.
 
I'll definitely be paying attention to see what the overall message here ends up being.

Let's wait until after the holiday shopping season is over before we start saying how successful the game is or is not.

[Rip504]

I also bought FC4, GTAV, and DA:I on the same day.
I had planned on picking up The Master Collection as well.

[StingingVelvet]

I don't get it though ... if they make the levels like tunnels with no more than two forks with one a dead end (DAO) people complain, if they use the same enviroments shamefully over and over again its bad as well, DA2...

 

And when they finally create a beautiful world with a shiteload of stuff to see, explore and go to, with a minimum of reused assets it also leads to complaints...Bioware, give it up already, you'll never win this game

 

The people who complained about Origins just don't like that style of game. It had nothing to do with how well it was made, which was pretty damn well. DA2 was a more poorly made game in the same style, so of course people complained about it being less well done.

 

Inquisition has large open areas but there's nothing interesting to do in them. It completely misses the point of what makes games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Witcher so interesting and fun to play. Instead it plays more like an offline MMO, which for a lot of people is not fun or satisfying. This isn't hard to figure out, honestly. No one gets a pass on effort alone.

[brzoz]

They shed many of their old fans. While both Morrowind and Skyrim are open-world games, Skyrim is far more action oriented than their early works. Their lore took a hit in Oblivion also.

i'm not sure about the lore, but Oblivion was the weakest of them imho - boring, chore-doing, Morrowind had something in it (i'm not being nostalgic because i'm not a fan, simply that game had a soul, from quests, exotic atmosphere/lore to spell crafting), Skyrim was fun, but it was a one time experience for me, just to see what the fuss is about. but basically the only big difference i've noticed is setting, gameplay didn't change that much across the series (never played Daggerfall or Arena tho)

 

 

Could I have working definitions of "mainstream" and "base" here? Which tastes determine which group you go into?

neither. i'm just an observer. "mainstream" means what publishers think will sell, by "fanbase" i mean people who stumbled upon BW's creations long before DA:O (no, i'm not one of those people, i don't think BG is best rpg ever, so don't even go there)

[metalfenix]

Gotta love BSN. 11 pages of thread even though a dev already answered in page 3.

 

That's why I hang around here

[dlux]

And let's face it, Origins was just a messy and sloppily managed development. Now that they know what they're doing, if they wanted to make another similar game (let's call it Origins 2) they'd do it start to finish in a regular 2-3 year cycle and still achieve the same ~5m sales.

Yep, Bioware built the framework during the production of DA:O and could have reused improved versions for sequels. A theoretical DA:O 2 and DA:O 3 could have easily sold 5+ million copies each in the 5 years since DA:O was released.

 

Bioware has been trying to reinvent the wheel and fix what isn't broken since DA:O was released, which doesn't really make much sense from a financial perspective when you look at how well DA:O sold. EA honestly and truly thinks that Dragon Age: Skyrim Inquisition will be substantially more profitable than DA:O. 

[Vox Draco]

Inquisition has large open areas but there's nothing interesting to do in them. It completely misses the point of what makes games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Witcher so interesting and fun to play. Instead it plays more like an offline MMO, which for a lot of people is not fun or satisfying. This isn't hard to figure out, honestly. No one gets a pass on effort alone.

 

What exactly IS the point of the games you metioned? The interesting stuff? I played them ALL...and you pick a lot of herbs in Witcher, there is mostly NOTHING of real interest to explore in Fallout except the same old ruins you see everywhere, and Skyrim, which I love with all my heart, feels rather empty itself most of the time, and had filler-quests before DAI ...

 

But then ... I always kinda liked MMORPGs .. except for two things: You need to be online always ... and all the other people were annoying. Hey, none of that here, maybe that's indeed why I love DAI so much ... and all the other games mentioned as well...always these comparisons with other totally different stuff and franchises, I don't get this as well...maybe it's too late today to get anything at all ...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

That's a pretty heavy duty list. With four games coming out on the same day. People see Bioware stuff as "long term games," and COD, Halo as multiplayer and those are hot out the gate.

 

Plus whatever audience Bioware garnered with ME3 launch was squandered with the ME3 ending. Rule - don't try to get artsy and deep with a video game ending because it will fall flat and disappoint.

[pdusen]

There's a difference between being a fan and being a slavish devotee who doesn't care about quality.

 

There's also a difference between things you personally don't like and poor quality.

[kkleven]

DA:I is a great game from a point of view of a rp gamer who played TES II and all way to Skyrim. Opend world games are solution and nice to see Bioware go into that direction as well. Some games do sell more than other games and fps games may sell more than rp games. Most players may like instant action than spending time collecting stuffs and build a character who are able to take down bosses.

 

Bethesda did something that few other did, they released a game editor so everyone who are able can either make mods by themselves or download stuffs - new weapons, clothes, houses, quests and add more landmass. With the game editor and console commands you are also able to fix bugs and be able to unstuck yourself.

 

DA:I have alot of things to do and they who don't like to spend hours collecting things and do boring quests, they may not like the game. Look at real life... do we have instant action everyday... rather not. Sometimes we need to do some very boring tasks at work. The same goes for rp games. Some may like to do only the main quest and skip other things - but that is not role playing. The way rp games are meant to be played is; Do much things as possible the game offers - even do boring quests and you will have a long gametime.

 

Hopefully I'm not alone to say this, but I don't care about sale rate and what game sells more than other games - as long game companies take care of the fan base. Hope that Bioware continue to make rp games for PC as well as other platform / consoles. Bioware did a honest attempt to make something great and they did, by releasing DA:I. Some may like it and some don't. The same goes for Bethesda's Skyrim. The same kind of posts here and other game forums.

 

If a game company want to make a game that is on the top of sales lists, make a game instant action, players do not need to search for better weapons/equipments - you will find these everywhere. No character buildings - youre top notch from start. No side quests and the game will tell you what to do and when. No age 16+ or 18+, just a 12+ game rate. Hopefully Bioware do not walk into that trap.

 

Cheers,

-Klevs

[rda]

Daggerfall is horrible. I remember getting it when it first came out. It was just soul-crushingly frustrating and going anywhere took sooooooo much time. It wasn't that great then, except in concept, and I couldn't imagine playing it now.

Some old games you get nostalgic for. Some old games you're just like, "I played THAT?" Daggerfall is one of the latter.

[Epyon5757]

There is no logical or rational reason for EA to expect that Inquisition would move 20 million copies.  No BioWare game ever has come anywhere close to that.  Comparing BioWare to CD Projekt Red and Bethesda is an apples and oranges comparison because the other two are independent studios.  Bethesda has been around seemingly since the dawn of PC gaming (or it feels like it).  They've spent 20 years building a massive following, and their last two games have sold so well that they can afford to be independent and build the games THEY want to build for now.  CD Projekt Red essentially has one game - Witcher - but they push hard to get it out every two-three years.

 

BioWare has always done very well at it's targeted audience, but they do not have a series that has been running long enough to run with Elder Scrolls in terms of units moved.  Their best bet would have been to figure out a way to sustain Baldur's Gate through the second-generation (PS2, XBox) consoles.  The cancellation of two BG games in a row killed the franchise, and in no small part necessitated the launch of Dragon Age.  

 

Until BioWare can consistently sustain a franchise for 10+ years, they will NEVER have the numbers that Bethesda gets, or that Projekt Red gets from Witcher.  Both of those companies benefit from their independence, while BioWare is dependent on satisfying EA with their vision to get funding.  At some point, though, BioWare will have to pick a style and stick with it for Dragon Age.  Right now, you have three DA games that all have positives and negatives, but there's not a whole lot outside of the world that carries from one game to the next.  DA4 needs to have more gameplay continuity from DAI than DAI did from DA2 or DA2 from Origins.  The main campaign probably needs to be meatier, and in a world the size of DAI, you could have two or three SIZEABLE side stories to go along with it.

 

If they can't find consistency or a style they want to stick with, we'll all be right back here in three years looking at franchise-killing sales numbers as opposed to solid sales numbers that probably get us another installment in a few years.  

 

I think DAI will follow the Origins sales models of consistent or slightly growing sales over several weeks and months rather than the huge spike for two weeks and then the drop to almost nothing after that.  The release date and month REALLY hurt, though - Mordor, GTA, AC, FarCry all in the same two week period, with many people planning to eventually get all five but choosing which goes first.  Yikes.

[Andres Hendrix]

Well, Dragon Age serves a particular part of the market. It is sort of like comparing Martin Amis or Ian McEwen to a mainstream author like Meyer, or Rowling. Rowling and Meyer being COD etc. lol