1329 réponses à ce sujet

[Vox Draco]

Hopefully I'm not alone to say this, but I don't care about sale rate and what game sells more than other games - as long game companies take care of the fan base. Hope that Bioware continue to make rp games for PC as well as other platform / consoles. Bioware did a honest attempt to make something great and they did, by releasing DA:I. Some may like it and some don't. The same goes for Bethesda's Skyrim. The same kind of posts here and other game forums.

 

You are not. As I see it, after a long draught of RPG-free years we at the moment live in greattimes with RPGs to please everyone. Wasteland 2 and Divinity for the turn-based crowd. Upcoming Pillars of Eternity seems to be a true spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate, even more then DAO was, at least gameply wise etc. And there is also Tides of Numeria coming, which seems to be a more intellectual approach to RPGs, a bit like torment was. we will see how these two will be, I am confident.

 

Then you have Witcher, those are more like Action-stories about one guy and his crusade to first save his memory, and no his great love. I am looking forward to the third part, as many do. And skyrim and Bethesda. Open-World, do what you like, but don't expect a great story and great characters, or even the best gameplay. however tailor the game as you want!

 

And Bioware/Dragon Age? It fills a wonderful gap for me, with a char I can create myself and think into (not really possible with Geralt for example, his is more like reading an interactive book to me), and you have a wonderfully crafted world like thedas, which is even more appealing to me than Tamriel. And the characters are all wonderful, you hate or you love them, but hardly do they leave you cold. And it has usual some nice cinematics, nice battles that often really make me feel the power of mages or rogues. Not too tactical, but I have other games for that.

 

Sorry about this, as it is unrelated to the game-sales-topic but...really, I wish some people would acknowledge that, even if DAI might not be their favorite thing, its still a great game and has its right to be here, and that it fills a niche like other games do as well. And I am personally SO glad that I can enjoy most types of RPGS,it gives me plenty of material to play and enjoy, instead of spending my time in misery and nostalgia... 

[Kierro Ren]

 

EWW, I thought I smelled old CoD fish...

[Grieving Natashina]

You know, folks can like CoD and Dragon Age.  Crazy, I know. 

[Riverway_Inca]

CronoDragoon, I'd quote your latest reply to me but for some bizarre reason I'm unable to quote messages.

 

To show you how superior the character interactions (and by extension, the writing) were in DAO as compared to DAI, let's look at Alistair from the former and Dorian from the latter. I romanced Alistair, and with him things started slowly; sometimes he'd initiate a conversation with me or I with him and I'd end up discovering something funny or interesting or touching. Sure, I could ply him with gifts to inorganically jumpstart the romance, but that was optional, and there were character-specific gifts too, which helped to further flesh out the character (all missing from DAI as part of the dumbing down on all fronts). Whatever it was, by the game's end, the romance had felt full, organic and meaningful. Contrast this with Dorian, who you could start flirting with right off the bat and basically have his whole romance arc done before you're even halfway through the main story. You get one or two scenes of him with any real import (plus the obligatory sex scene) and that's about it. Now, the character itself is well-written (and performed fantastically by the VA too), and, for example with Dorian's big 'revelatory' scene, I was so touched by it but I kept hoping for 'more, more!' later on and never got my wish. The arc's progression was totally devoid of pacing and flow, and the relationship ultimately felt more like a pixellated prize than anything else.

 

You think the romances were poorly done, but how about the other characters? I was so intrigued by Vivienne from the moment I met her and was looking forward to getting to know her much better. Again, the VA and writing (what little there is of it) do a fantastic job of pulling you in, but my goodness, with Vivienne I think I got only one short character-defining scene and that was about it. I had far fuller interactions with Zevran in Origins (whom I never romanced) than I ever did with Vivienne or Dorian. I sure would've appreciated it had Bioware spent more resources on letting me get to know my characters better rather than on allowing me to traipse around the vast swathes of desert in the Hissing Wastes looking for piles of crap.

 

Now, what's with all this dumbing down of the character interactions and what not? Well, I think it all boils down to what someone mentioned earlier, something about why must people buy stupid games. Bioware/EA starts to thinking that stupid sells better (or if you want to be less harsh, replace 'stupid' with 'more simplistic') and tries to emulate that; they look at games like Skyrim racking up millions of sales and they get envious and start thinking, why not be more like them, without realizing that Bioware's fanbase expects something more, something unique that games like Skyrim just don't offer.

 

I also think it's interesting (again like someone said) that Bioware feels the need to make each DA game so different from one another - why can't they settle on one model like what the ME franchise did and build from there?  

[Aurok]

I don't get it though ... if they make the levels like tunnels with no more than two forks with one a dead end (DAO) people complain, if they use the same enviroments shamefully over and over again its bad as well, DA2...

 

And when they finally create a beautiful world with a shiteload of stuff to see, explore and go to, with a minimum of reused assets it also leads to complaints...Bioware, give it up already, you'll never win this game

 

I know, right?! It's so weird how different people have different opinions like that.

 

The point is that Skyrim didn't sell 20m copies because 'it's open world and had some dragons in it', yet that's about how deep EA's appreciation of it ever seems to go. The reasons behind a game suddenly exploding into a cultural phenomenon are typically a little more complex than whatever can be inferred just from a cursory glance at the back of the box.

 

EA's MO is to look at this most basic surface-level description, be completely oblivious to the factors which actually made a difference and then be inevitably foiled when their own attempt fails to resonate in the same way. They will then conclude that there just simply weren't enough dragons.

[keyip]

The point is that Skyrim didn't sell 20m copies because 'it's open world and had some dragons in it', yet that's about how deep EA's appreciation of it ever seems to go. The reasons behind a game suddenly exploding into a cultural phenomenon are typically a little more complex than whatever can be inferred just from a cursory glance at the back of the box.

 

EA's MO is to look at this most basic surface-level description, be completely oblivious to the factors which actually made a difference and then be inevitably foiled when their own attempt fails to resonate in the same way. They will then conclude that there just simply weren't enough dragons.

 

You know EA publishes the Sims right? I'm fairly certain they're aware of how to create games which sell well...

[dlux]

I am loathe to say it in light of the inevitable 'but muh sales' response, but DAI did open world better for me personally than Skyrim ever could.

Neither Skyrim or DA:I do open world very well IMO.
 
Play Fallout 1 or Baldur's Gate, they are excellent open world games.

[Grieving Natashina]

I promise, this isn't to anyone in particular, but the rose-colored glasses with Baldur's Gate have gotten a little too thick.

 

Look, I like the Baldur's Gate series as well, but there was a lot of issues in those games.  Anyone remember the fun of just trying to move your party members across a city?  Even when you were careful, there was always at least one or two party members that kept trying to move off-screen.

 

 

BG had other issues too.  It's not like that was the Perfect Game.  You can still love and enjoy a game that has flaws.  A game can ultimately sell well even with flaws.

[dantares83]

this game was never going to be Skyrim or GTA sales. Expecting those sales is just ridiculous and unrealistic. 

 

anyway, sports games and fps are always the games that sell tons. it is just like that. 

[Zu Long]

No idea where you got those numbers from @OP, but if they are from VGChartz, you should know that their numbers are completely unreliable. Don't believe any number they post on their site, they are extremely inaccurate.

Well, DA:I is not the only game that is sold digitally... So your point is?

DA:I is NOT Game of the year. It won a single GOTY award and that is it. Here is a summary of GOTY awards awarded by various publications and organizations. As you can see, there are tons of GOTY awards.

You keep bringing that GOTY thing up like it means anything. It's like screaming that there are other Best Picture awards besides the Oscars. The other ones, but only one has a ton of prestige attached to it. DAI won it. Get over it already.

[dlux]

You keep bringing that GOTY thing up like it means anything. It's like screaming that there are other Best Picture awards besides the Oscars. The other ones, but only one has a ton of prestige attached to it. DAI won it. Get over it already.

So you're saying The Game Awards are the Oscars of video games? loool 

 

The Game Awards are not prestigious, and have only existed since 2014. No, it does not matter that the producer of TGA used to produce a different award show. If DA:I gets numerous GOTY awards, then it is GOTY as far as I am concerned. Until then these 3 GOTY awards are absolutely meaningless.

 

Get over it already.

[AlanC9]

I
The point is that Skyrim didn't sell 20m copies because 'it's open world and had some dragons in it', yet that's about how deep EA's appreciation of it ever seems to go. The reasons behind a game suddenly exploding into a cultural phenomenon are typically a little more complex than whatever can be inferred just from a cursory glance at the back of the box.

What are the reasons it sold 20m copies, anyway?

[Grieving Natashina]

What are the reasons it sold 20m copies, anyway?

And anyone else notice that 20 million copies was over a 2-2 1/2 year period?  Based on a franchise that was 17 years old at the time of release, versus the DA franchise which is only now almost 6 years old?

 

_{I agree with you and I'm wondering the same thing as well.}

[TristynTrine]

CronoDragoon, I'd quote your latest reply to me but for some bizarre reason I'm unable to quote messages.

 

To show you how superior the character interactions (and by extension, the writing) were in DAO as compared to DAI, let's look at Alistair from the former and Dorian from the latter. I romanced Alistair, and with him things started slowly; sometimes he'd initiate a conversation with me or I with him and I'd end up discovering something funny or interesting or touching. Sure, I could ply him with gifts to inorganically jumpstart the romance, but that was optional, and there were character-specific gifts too, which helped to further flesh out the character (all missing from DAI as part of the dumbing down on all fronts). Whatever it was, by the game's end, the romance had felt full, organic and meaningful. Contrast this with Dorian, who you could start flirting with right off the bat and basically have his whole romance arc done before you're even halfway through the main story. You get one or two scenes of him with any real import (plus the obligatory sex scene) and that's about it. Now, the character itself is well-written (and performed fantastically by the VA too), and, for example with Dorian's big 'revelatory' scene, I was so touched by it but I kept hoping for 'more, more!' later on and never got my wish. The arc's progression was totally devoid of pacing and flow, and the relationship ultimately felt more like a pixellated prize than anything else.

 

You think the romances were poorly done, but how about the other characters? I was so intrigued by Vivienne from the moment I met her and was looking forward to getting to know her much better. Again, the VA and writing (what little there is of it) do a fantastic job of pulling you in, but my goodness, with Vivienne I think I got only one short character-defining scene and that was about it. I had far fuller interactions with Zevran in Origins (whom I never romanced) than I ever did with Vivienne or Dorian. I sure would've appreciated it had Bioware spent more resources on letting me get to know my characters better rather than on allowing me to traipse around the vast swathes of desert in the Hissing Wastes looking for piles of crap.

 

Now, what's with all this dumbing down of the character interactions and what not? Well, I think it all boils down to what someone mentioned earlier, something about why must people buy stupid games. Bioware/EA starts to thinking that stupid sells better (or if you want to be less harsh, replace 'stupid' with 'more simplistic') and tries to emulate that; they look at games like Skyrim racking up millions of sales and they get envious and start thinking, why not be more like them, without realizing that Bioware's fanbase expects something more, something unique that games like Skyrim just don't offer.

 

I also think it's interesting (again like someone said) that Bioware feels the need to make each DA game so different from one another - why can't they settle on one model like what the ME franchise did and build from there?  

Oh god don't start being like television "Stupid sells better" Attitude... Please by the Maker, anything but that... Stupid is stupid, nothing else...

[Etragorn]

Glad to hear a bit from Bioware that the game is doing well.

I wouldn't trust any chart that doesn't include digital sales, for games like this, that is a large portion of sales.

[Neovalen]

And anyone else notice that 20 million copies was over a 2-2 1/2 year period? Based on a franchise that was 17 years old at the time of release, versus the DA franchise which is only now almost 6 years old?

_{I agree with you and I'm wondering the same thing as well.}

Another reason? Full modding capabilities! Keeps the game fresh.

[dlux]

Okay I found the link to the OP's source on NeoGaf. These are actually reliable numbers from NPD... and Dragon Age: Inquisition isn't in the top ten, but games like Far Cry 4 and Assassin's Creed Unity are. xD

 

Not good, not good at all.

 

Can't say i'm surprised though, because angering your fan base is never a good idea.

[wolfhowwl]

Is Far Cry 4 and Assassin's Creed Unity selling more surprising?

People here do know that their predecessors Far Cry 3 and Black Flag both sold more than the entire Dragon Age franchise combined and likely several times more than DA:O, right?

[Zu Long]

So you're saying The Game Awards are the Oscars of video games? loool 

 

The Game Awards are not prestigious, and have only existed since 2014. No, it does not matter that the producer of TGA used to produce a different award show. If DA:I gets numerous GOTY awards, then it is GOTY as far as I am concerned. Until then these 3 GOTY awards are absolutely meaningless.

 

Get over it already.

 

I'm not the one who won't stop posting about it. No one cares that your panties are in a bunch over it being Game of the Year or what you think the criteria for that title should be.

[X Equestris]

Okay I found the link to the OP's source on NeoGaf. These are actually reliable numbers from NPD... and Dragon Age: Inquisition isn't in the top ten, but games like Far Cry 4 and Assassin's Creed Unity are. xD
 
Not good, not good at all.
 
Can't say i'm surprised though, because angering your fan base is never a good idea.

Why is it automatically about "angering your fan base" when both of those franchises easily blow Dragon Age out of the water when it comes to sales?

[dlux]

^

Read the Neogaf thread and weep. 

[Geth Supremacy]

2 Ubisoft games on that list?  When are gamers going to stop being so stupid and mindless.  Sucks DA: I isn't on there.

[Spankatola]

I'm not sure why there's even a debate anymore. Literally the one guy in this thread who'd actually know is the one guy who's not posting anonymously, and said the game is doing "great."

 

So, worries abated, right?

 

I'm just going to quote myself in the fading hope that everyone will sort of accept that the game is selling well.

[CronoDragoon]

To show you how superior the character interactions (and by extension, the writing) were in DAO as compared to DAI, let's look at Alistair from the former and Dorian from the latter. I romanced Alistair, and with him things started slowly; sometimes he'd initiate a conversation with me or I with him and I'd end up discovering something funny or interesting or touching. Sure, I could ply him with gifts to inorganically jumpstart the romance, but that was optional, and there were character-specific gifts too, which helped to further flesh out the character (all missing from DAI as part of the dumbing down on all fronts). Whatever it was, by the game's end, the romance had felt full, organic and meaningful. Contrast this with Dorian, who you could start flirting with right off the bat and basically have his whole romance arc done before you're even halfway through the main story. You get one or two scenes of him with any real import (plus the obligatory sex scene) and that's about it. Now, the character itself is well-written (and performed fantastically by the VA too), and, for example with Dorian's big 'revelatory' scene, I was so touched by it but I kept hoping for 'more, more!' later on and never got my wish. The arc's progression was totally devoid of pacing and flow, and the relationship ultimately felt more like a pixellated prize than anything else.

The pacing issue is just as present in Origins. It seems that you experienced a gradual progression, but it's certainly not because the game was specifically designed to do so. It's very easy to steamroll a romance in Origins by stuffing gifts down their throat. I miss the character-specific gifts, too, but it was actually DA2 that did them correctly, not DA: O.
 

You think the romances were poorly done, but how about the other characters? I was so intrigued by Vivienne from the moment I met her and was looking forward to getting to know her much better. Again, the VA and writing (what little there is of it) do a fantastic job of pulling you in, but my goodness, with Vivienne I think I got only one short character-defining scene and that was about it. I had far fuller interactions with Zevran in Origins (whom I never romanced) than I ever did with Vivienne or Dorian. I sure would've appreciated it had Bioware spent more resources on letting me get to know my characters better rather than on allowing me to traipse around the vast swathes of desert in the Hissing Wastes looking for piles of crap.

Vivienne is pretty much the worst example you can find, since her entire character is built around not letting you get to know her. I also don't know where you are getting this idea that Origins' characters had more writing done for them. I certainly don't agree with that. But it's a bit off the point for me, since quantity doesn't equate to quality. Blackwall, for example, accomplished a deeper and more meaningful character portrait across 2 or 3 scenes than Alistair did for the entirety of Origins.

That's not even getting into the idea that characters from Origins are actually written better in Inquisition! Both Morrigan and Leliana display an evolution and depth of character that Origins barely hinted it, and that I won't expand on for spoiler reasons.
 

Now, what's with all this dumbing down of the character interactions and what not? Well, I think it all boils down to what someone mentioned earlier, something about why must people buy stupid games. Bioware/EA starts to thinking that stupid sells better (or if you want to be less harsh, replace 'stupid' with 'more simplistic') and tries to emulate that; they look at games like Skyrim racking up millions of sales and they get envious and start thinking, why not be more like them, without realizing that Bioware's fanbase expects something more, something unique that games like Skyrim just don't offer.

This is a poor argument, and I really hope you're letting off steam and don't believe this. I thought our discussion was going okay, but you've just called me stupid, and if it continues I'll have to start changing my tone a bit. :/
 

I also think it's interesting (again like someone said) that Bioware feels the need to make each DA game so different from one another - why can't they settle on one model like what the ME franchise did and build from there?

Erm, the Mass Effect games are all pretty darn different from each other.