1329 réponses à ce sujet

[frankf43]

Is she/he still going?
Wow.

Well he/she is the dlux addition. 

[Novos]

The game is a financial success, i have no doubt of this. But it is not a good alone indicator of overall success...

I believe that it also contains some situational factors and some sort of luck like new console transition, their lack of backlog, lack of competition and huge dissappointments during its launch window etc... All those but at the cost of core fanbase.

I really think that they have managed to alienate the majority of their core fan base this time around while catering to mainstream. But the thing is; they are a crowd always chasing the next big thing and have no loyalty whatsoever. My point is; the situational factors masked the fact that they really couldn' t penetrate that market. Mainstream does not care about Dragon Age franchise at all. You can see its evidence everywhere if you care enough to be objective. I believe; the shift in target audience, degraded the franchise into a filler status. And this actually is a very vulnerable state.

Therefore; they really need to convince the market that they are the next big thing to achieve a comparable success next time. So they' ll be needing something far better than a couple of twitch streams and a couple of appearances on specific events considering the absence of the core fan base. Which automatically translates into a huge marketing budget with less resources and time on developement stage. In other words; a recipe for a flop...

I have nothing against Bioware. I am just a fan who happens to not like the direction they are going and believe it would harm them in the future. I hope i am wrong and they can maintain their success.

[SofaJockey]

... I really think that they have managed to alienate the majority of their core fan base ...

 

I struggle to see any justification for that.

I think the core fan base is pretty happy.

 

Posters on BSN =/= the core fan base.

[Novos]

I struggle to see any justification for that.
I think the core fan base is pretty happy.
 
Posters on BSN =/= the core fan base.

I do not think that it needs any justification as the post is about my subjective opinion on the matter.

Apart from some statistics and events hinting to one or the other; we wouldn't find any sound evidence supporting either claim even if we looked for it anyways...

[Epyon5757]

Snip

And who decides what the "core" fanbase is? You? Me? The "core" BioWare fanbase is far too small to cater only to that subgroup with the games. BioWare would cease to exist if they did that.

No, to stay in business, their games must be appealing enough to certain mainstream segments (specifically action/adventure, and, for ME, shooter) to capture the heavy majority of sales. They did a good job of this, and i feel that the legwork they had to pour into FB3 just to get this game to work and look good will pay off in a major way for ME4 and DA4.

I would wish to see, in future games, some meatier secondary quest arcs and more use of tactical options that were shown in early footage but cut, presumably due to QA concerns. If their writers are as good as BioWare says they are, then there's room for secondary/side story arcs that have some weight to them.

[SofaJockey]

I do not thing that it needs any justification as the post is about my subjective opinion on the matter.

Apart from some statistics and events hinting to one or the other; we wouldn't find any sound evidence supporting either claim even if we looked for it anyways...

 

Alright, that's helpfully qualified, thank you.

 

Subjective opinions are usually a matter of taste, a liking for music or how much you enjoy a plot or story.

When you assert the hypothesis that the majority or the core fan base are alienated, that's only a speculation, unless you have some basis for it.

 

The reason I thought you might have a justification in mind, is because you rely on the speculation about the fan base being alienated in

your fourth paragraph, which is essentially:

• Because the core fan base is alienated (para 2)
• They need to increase the marketing budget
• It's more expensive
• it's a recipe for a flop

Granted, my suggestion that the core fan base (whatever that is, thanks Epyon)

was happy was no more or less speculative that your view.

 

What you did though is to build an entire argument on top of that first speculation, which doesn't really work.

 

EDIT: And actually Epyon has it spot on...

[Novos]

And who decides what the "core" fanbase is? You? Me? The "core" BioWare fanbase is far too small to cater only to that subgroup with the games. BioWare would cease to exist if they did that.

No, to stay in business, their games must be appealing enough to certain mainstream segments (specifically action/adventure, and, for ME, shooter) to capture the heavy majority of sales. They did a good job of this, and i feel that the legwork they had to pour into FB3 just to get this game to work and look good will pay off in a major way for ME4 and DA4.

I would wish to see, in future games, some meatier secondary quest arcs and more use of tactical options that were shown in early footage but cut, presumably due to QA concerns. If their writers are as good as BioWare says they are, then there's room for secondary/side story arcs that have some weight to them.

To my belief;

A core fan base; is a crowd who plays, twitchs, tubes, posts, talks, attends events etc. on a regular basis consistently over time. Maintaining a certain rating and an install base for the franchise. Yes they are a minority but also a very important asset as well which far outweights their share in the big picture and a very powerfull source of influence.

Therefore; for example, posters on BSN can be considered pretty much in-line with that definition. Of course they are not the only source...

Besides all the pre-launch hype(generated by the core fan base) and the awards afterwards; i am seeing some significant decline in the activities i have explained in my intro comparing to the past. The game seems to be pretty much non existend everywhere i look. And this makes me think that the core fan base is severely lost. Now i have already said that this is my subjective opinion and observation. So like Bodahn says "Take it for what it is.."

We can only be sure of this during the next installement in the series.

[Novos]

Alright, that's helpfully qualified, thank you.
 
Subjective opinions are usually a matter of taste, a liking for music or how much you enjoy a plot or story.
When you assert the hypothesis that the majority or the core fan base are alienated, that's only a speculation, unless you have some basis for it.
 
The reason I thought you might have a justification in mind, is because you rely on the speculation about the fan base being alienated in
your fourth paragraph, which is essentially:

• Because the core fan base is alienated (para 2)
• They need to increase the marketing budget
• It's more expensive
• it's a recipe for a flop

Granted, my suggestion that the core fan base (whatever that is, thanks Epyon)
was happy was no more or less speculative that your view.
 
What you did though is to build an entire argument on top of that first speculation, which doesn't really work.
 
EDIT: And actually Epyon has it spot on...

A brief summary of my justification is in the reply i made for Epyon5757 above.

Of course; it is connected to my personal observations therefore i needed to underline that it is subjective. And yes it is also speculative. But it is still an opinion. And you should also note that all forecasts are speculative in nature and one way or the other derive from subjective assumptions. I don' t know... As my native language is not English; i may not be able to choose the right words.

For example;

Let's put aside the negativiy on this forum. Especially the "Pc Concerns" thread which by the way i believe is something that can not be disregarded while talking about the core fan base. But let's pretend that they do not exist for second.

Tell me;

How many posts you see about the actual gameplay ?

Like choices, theory-crafting, min-maxing, strategies, lore, character customization, exploits, easter eggs, items, quests, crafting, guides etc. etc.

Then compare them with the previous titles in the series and tell me that you do not see a significant decline in those activities. These are some good signs on measuring the health of a game's community and its consistent fan base...

[SofaJockey]

* snip *

 

My discussion of language was to illustrate that I thought the case you made was weak in places (for the reasons I gave).

My native language is not English either so I'm certainly not going to hold word choice against you 

 

Yes, your information to Epyon certainly makes your hypothesis stronger.

 

I haven't counted threads in relation to other titles, there are certainly threads on all those subjects about DAI.

 

One of the things that kept a large part of the Mass Effect fanbase engaged was the multiplayer.

I think the DA multiplayer has yet to hit its stride, but if it does I think it will do just as well keeping a large part of the fanbase engaged.

 

So I don't worry about DA4 being appropriately marketed or succeeding,

though as we are years away, any predictions must be highly speculative about that.

[pawswithclaws]

Plenty of gameplay posts about DAI, just not on the bioware forums. To be honest, the mood here doesn't do anything to encourage them.

[Orian Tabris]

The game is a financial success, i have no doubt of this. But it is not a good alone indicator of overall success...

 

I have to disagree with this.

 

Baldur's Gate 2 put BioWare on the map, essentially. Since the introduction of romance, in addition to lots of well-written story-telling, BioWare has basically become a household name in the gaming industry. And the subsequent popular games (particularly ME and DA). Inquisition has been a huge success, even if it isn't anywhere near as good as some seemed to have claimed it to be. As long as the general populace love the game, and especially if it continues to make a profit without DLC or an expansion, there's really no chance their gonna crash and burn. That would require BioWare to crash and burn as a whole. No Mass Effect, and DA sucks, no ideas to bring the company back to life.

 

Mass Effect is an example of this. While ME3 is hated so much, people continue to want more Mass Effect, hence ME4's likely resurgence of the series. After DA2 and ME3, BioWare really started to feel the cold hand of Death. Fortunately, EA gave them a legitimately good chance to make a successful game. They gave BW a whole 'nother year, and that shows their willingness to give them a chance. If EA had never given them that extra year, though, Inquisition would not have had the success it has had. Indeed, without that extra year, we would not have had a Cullen or Solas romance, and you know how popular those are.

 

Really, EA is the only thing determining whether they will fall. But, only because of their experience with Mass Effect 3's original ending, giving them an idea of what not to do.

 

Nah, I think they'll live at least another 10 years.

[Lebanese Dude]

without that extra year, we would not have had a Cullen or Solas romance, and you know how popular those are.

A combined 6000 pages of rage and tears if they had not.

[Novos]

I have to disagree with this...

Well; i am not a shareholder at EA or Bioware. I do not gain anything or benefit from their financial success. Therefore; their ROE, market share, sales numbers etc. are a no measure of success to me. And i can also safely say that it also is a no measure of financial success on the long run without considering the risks and opportunity costs of said success. Which is exactly what i was trying to refer to in my posts.

I only care because Bioware is one of the few developers which happens to release products in-line with my tastes nowadays...

The launch success could easily be derived from the long waiting current fan base as any number you can come up with given info are in-line with the title's potential install base. Therefore we do not know the ratio of the fan's vs. mainstream contibution on this. We do not know how would the fans react to the next installement as we already know there is a considerable amount of dissappointment. We do not know how would mainstream react as we know there are some situational circumstances which may lead to be misleading for that type of market. Also we already know that the potential sales numbers and chart positions are really not good enough for an AAA title expecting a considerable penetration on mainstream market as there are also a considerable amount of current fan base you have to include in those numbers.

Therefore; we may very well be facing a situation where a lot is at stake for a small gain. It is just as probable as the other possibility. So why rule it out...

[DooomCookie]

Regardless, it might not have been good for EA, but it was good for Bioware.  They needed something that would sit around and soak up good will.  Something to stabilise the ship.  Even if it's not the most successful RPG evar, getting all those GOTYs means it's going to be pretty hard to ignore (and for the right reasons this time), which is what Bioware wanted.

[Phonantiphon]

2016: Chibi-Morrigan becomes a household phrase.

And not just a dubious instruction...

[wicked cool]

Xbox 360 owner and this tine is different.i followed every update and watched every blurry youtube clip. The developers excitement and the exitement of those super fans reporting every nugget allowed me to rush out and buy it
I was shocked inmediately on how bad the character creator graphics were. Unable to create a black haired human with any semblance of a beard
I had gone from dao to da2 tofallout 3 to skyrim(i dont care if u hate it). I stayed away from wow and other mms and anime final fantsdy tpgs
I love the lore and combat but i feel betrayed as a. 360 owner and i have "lost that lovin feeling" for bioware.
2 many enemies are cardboard cutouts. Theres not as much replay desire that i had from da2. Even in da2 after i played the first time i wanted to take a different sibling or knew if i didnt grab x item it was gone by act 2. I didnt look at hawkes hair and realize it looked awful

Never played recently a serious rpg where i didnt want to store trophys and drop a unique weapon early in game. Why bother in this game because if i
Kill a couple dogs i can craft something a lot better.
The game has plenty of "marry me" moments and its good too see familiar faces but its easier to put down the controller than ever before

[CronoDragoon]

It's possible BioWare alienated their core fanbase with Dragon Age Inquisition, because anything above a 0% chance is possible, and a .0000001% chance qualifies.

 

Having said that, it's very difficult to take such claims seriously considering they are repeated after every single BioWare release. The Catalyst is right in that the cycle continues endlessly, as Dragon Age Origins is now held up as The True Fan's preference whereas it was taken to the woodshed back in the day for how poorly it held up to Baldur's Gate II. Meanwhile you can certainly expect fans of Mass Effect 2 and 3 to criticize Mass Effect 4 if it fulfills its promise to refocus on exploration which will lead to game design markedly different from those games.

[Il Divo]

It's possible BioWare alienated their core fanbase with Dragon Age Inquisition, because anything above a 0% chance is possible, and a .0000001% chance qualifies.

 

Having said that, it's very difficult to take such claims seriously considering they are repeated after every single BioWare release. The Catalyst is right in that the cycle continues endlessly, as Dragon Age Origins is now held up as The True Fan's preference whereas it was taken to the woodshed back in the day for how poorly it held up to Baldur's Gate II. Meanwhile you can certainly expect fans of Mass Effect 2 and 3 to criticize Mass Effect 4 if it fulfills its promise to refocus on exploration which will lead to game design markedly different from those games.

 

And speaking as a critic of ME1's planet exploration, you can expect I'll be right there in that crowd. 

[keyip]

All those but at the cost of core fanbase.

 

Bioware has been accused of ignoring its core fanbase since Jade Empire. Actually, if you define "core fanbase" as those who are PC-focused and want long games, since KOTOR. At the end of the day core fanbases are never stagnant, they change and shift and evolve along with the company. Bethesda was accused of shedding its core fanbase after Oblivion (some suggested after Morrowind.) Diablo's "core fanbase" despised Diablo 3. People tend to over-estimate the influence of a gaming company's "core fanbase", especially when you're talking about RPGs (which aren't very popular.)

 

Bioware's "core fanbase" today is different to what it was a decade ago. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

im worried we might not get working patches so we can play the game properly 

[Eusark]

Yet this is Bioware most commercially successful game to date. And there's a lot of factors that the NPD doesn't take into consideration.

[Miggs]

You're worried we might not get a sequel?

 

I'm worried we will!

 

Time to move on, this story has run it's course.

[AlanC9]

Bioware's "core fanbase" today is different to what it was a decade ago.

Agreed. Although some of us are still here, and will still be here next time around.

[Lebanese Dude]

You're worried we might not get a sequel?

I'm worried we will!

Time to move on, this story has run it's course.

Well they probably won't so you should take the initiative yourself.

First step in moving on: Avoid the DA forums. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.