1329 réponses à ce sujet

[akabane_k]

what I'm curious about is how much time/resources were used to make fb3 usable for rpgs, as opposed to actually making dai.

 

Since the next game won't have to go through that whole process again.

[In Exile]

what I'm curious about is how much time/resources were used to make fb3 usable for rpgs, as opposed to actually making dai.

Since the next game won't have to go through that whole process again.

A substantial amount is my guess. Just something like banter had to be done from the ground up. Its exactly like ME1.

[atlantico]

But they need to make sure that their fan base will be willing to try the game rather than save for a DA sequel.

 

Sure, that makes sense, it was the old Interplay policy too, don't release two games that compete for the same market - maybe that's the case for DA and ME now, but is it the same fan base? Or does it just overlap with Bioware fans, who are certainly inclined to purchase every Bioware release. 

 

I don't know the answer to that, but six months is perhaps enough of a gap between releases. It was at least at one time.

[thats1evildude]

Why is this still going?

[atlantico]

Why is this still going?

Because of people like you, who show interest in this thread, bumping it up and keeping it a alive.

[pdusen]

A substantial amount is my guess. Just something like banter had to be done from the ground up. Its exactly like ME1.

Frostbite also couldn't pause.

[Sidney]

what I'm curious about is how much time/resources were used to make fb3 usable for rpgs, as opposed to actually making dai.
 
Since the next game won't have to go through that whole process again.

Clearly making the engine work was a big deal, the question now is sorta like DAO to DA2 how much of the underlying game mechanics will they hack away at and change? If they make DAI2 where they aren't making major engine changes it should be a much faster than if they rearrange how skills and levels and weapons work.

[In Exile]

Sure, that makes sense, it was the old Interplay policy too, don't release two games that compete for the same market - maybe that's the case for DA and ME now, but is it the same fan base? Or does it just overlap with Bioware fans, who are certainly inclined to purchase every Bioware release. 

 

I don't know the answer to that, but six months is perhaps enough of a gap between releases. It was at least at one time.

 

Presumably Bioware knows that pretty easily - they have access to telemetry and can presumably track who owns copies of DA/ME via origin/gamer accounts, etc. 

 

My point is just that with a new IP it's different than an established one. You want to make a big splash. If the new IP has lots of typical "Bioware" features, it can rope in the fans of both DA and ME depending on what it offers. Giving multiple offering dilutes the impact of those features. 

As for a year vs. six-months, I think the difference is relatively substantial b/c people do buy other games. The more spaced out the release the greater the hunger for your product, especially if it's relatively unique (as IMO Bioware games are; the only company making something similar on anywhere close to an AAA scale is CDPR, and those games are pretty different). 

[atlantico]

 

My point is just that with a new IP it's different than an established one. You want to make a big splash. If the new IP has lots of typical "Bioware" features, it can rope in the fans of both DA and ME depending on what it offers. 

 

Sure a new IP is great if it works, and a disaster if it fails. Thus ==> risky

 

SWTOR was not a new IP, so it wasn't hard for executives to greenlight it. A new IP never sounds sexy to any executive, who wants to be the executive who greenlit a new IP that flopped and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and market? 

 

Because that executive will fired. Fans, like you and me, well we'd love to see a new IP. That just doesn't enter into it.

[In Exile]

Sure a new IP is great if it works, and a disaster if it fails. Thus ==> risky

 

SWTOR was not a new IP, so it wasn't hard for executives to greenlight it. A new IP never sounds sexy to any executive, who wants to be the executive who greenlit a new IP that flopped and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and market? 

 

Because that executive will fired. Fans, like you and me, well we'd love to see a new IP. That just doesn't enter into it.

 

I'm not saying a new IP is some great money-making idea. There's a reason Holywood has become crazy stale. My point is just that if you're already committed to a new IP, drawing in fans of similar genre products - and especially fans of your company brand - is a good start to avoid a flop. 

[LinksOcarina]

Keep in mind, BioWare has two new I.P coming out still, one of which is currently being reworked into something else.

 

So id say they are not really strapped on any schedule or loss. Dragon Age can easily come back every four or five years, tops, with new games in the series, while BioWare does other things in the meantime.

[Spankatola]

NPD.
 
Confidential. But leaked to be <600K (total physical retail across all platforms).
 
Because the industry trusts NPD.

 

The industry may trust NPD, but it appears the industry can't be trusted to interpret those numbers to an accurate conclusion.

 

I feel like, at this point, the thread title is misleading. Not with respect to the OP, but certainly with respect to where this thread has gone.

[Allan Schumacher]

Just as a general note, when discussing stuff like this keep in mind that everyone is filling in blanks and to be mindful of how your perspective (and impression of the game) will predispose you to concluding various things (i.e. "launch" only means day one).

 

With respect to "hardcore fans" it's also important to recognize that different platforms will have different audiences. If I take my two PAX experiences, almost every single person that has tried our games loves them immensely. I probably met several hundred (maybe a thousand???) people at PAX Prime 2013 and I had two people talk to me about how they were disappointed with how BioWare has gone. One was related to mandatory Origin, and the other was about the Mass Effect 3 endings.

 

If I go into online spaces, I can get different impressions depending on where I go.  My experience with the fanbase on twitter differs from the forum. Tumblr seems to be different from both of those. And so forth.

 

 

They were quite proud of the new art style, as I recall.

 

Matt Goldman had a talk at PAX South regarding art and while he was enthusiastic about changing things up (we basically had one base model for *everything* in DAO), he did concede that on some level there was an "over-correction" for some things such as how much the elves changed and whatnot.

 

He did a very interesting breakdown (somewhat simplified) of the various colour palettes used by each game and the motivations behind them. I actually sat in on the talk just "as a fan" and found it pretty interesting myself.  He did like having a more distinct look compared to DAO, which is something I agree with.

 

 

what I'm curious about is how much time/resources were used to make fb3 usable for rpgs, as opposed to actually making dai.

We'll still look to iterate and whatnot and continue to add more, but certainly "non-trivial."  If we already had the tools we had now at the start of production we probably could have shaved off a large chunk of time.

 

 

Sure a new IP is great if it works, and a disaster if it fails. Thus ==> risky

 

New IPs are risky, but at the same time I consider them essential for long term prospects. There's still a lot of "potential savings" as technology that we use for one game may still be usable for another game, but I think if a company like BioWare (or EA) refuses to do new IPs everyone loses out in the long run.

 

 

As for NPD, Blake Jorgensen mentioned that he feels there's a bit too much over reliance on NPD due to the digital transition. Especially since digital purchases on consoles are becoming more common as well.  I agree and remember getting into a discussion on the old BSN who was using NPD sales to show how the gaming market was spiraling downward and less and less people were buying games while the revenue numbers of the industry seemed to be indicating otherwise.

 

 

As for the game's reception and success, I am pretty optimistic. Take that how you will I guess.

[SofaJockey]

New IPs are risky, but at the same time I consider them essential for long term prospects. There's still a lot of "potential savings" as technology that we use for one game may still be usable for another game, but I think if a company like BioWare (or EA) refuses to do new IPs everyone loses out in the long run.

 

This is so true, as without risk great IPs are not forged.

 

Dragon Age evolving from Baldur's Gate etc.

Mass Effect from KOTOR.

 

And however good those previous franchises were,

their lore was 'other peoples' IP.

 

Curious to see what comes next... 

[Captain Wiseass]

I agree and remember getting into a discussion on the old BSN who was using NPD sales to show how the gaming market was spiraling downward and less and less people were buying games while the revenue numbers of the industry seemed to be indicating otherwise.

I see the same thing happen in the comic book fandom. Year-on-year trends show the industry is on the upswing, but people who hate the latest Marvel or DC event crossover will latch grasp whatever straws they can to push a "comics are dying" narrative. It's almost as if they want the industry to fail.

[LinksOcarina]

I see the same thing happen in the comic book fandom. Year-on-year trends show the industry is on the upswing, but people who hate the latest Marvel or DC event crossover will latch grasp whatever straws they can to push a "comics are dying" narrative. It's almost as if they want the industry to fail.

 

It proves them right if it does, so it becomes an issue of self-fulfillment.

 

It's how fandom works, really, at least in a more modern way thanks to instant information, gratification and supposition at your fingertips.

[jds1bio]

It proves them right if it does, so it becomes an issue of self-fulfillment.

 

It's how fandom works, really, at least in a more modern way thanks to instant information, gratification and supposition at your fingertips.

Yeah these cycles are completed way too quickly these days...someone could cycle their way through information and their own experiences so many times and come out with enough negative opinions to make it seem like things really are doomed.

 

Doing this with videogames, though, can be exponentially more time-consuming.  I can't tell you know how many times I've read on various forums in the past month about reaching a state of boredom with games such as DA: I and Destiny, but after 20 hours, 40 hours, 4 or more playthroughs/characters, etc.  Was that time before reaching a state of boredom fulfilling in any way at all?  Geez, I hope so.

[atlantico]

New IPs are risky, but at the same time I consider them essential for long term prospects. There's still a lot of "potential savings" as technology that we use for one game may still be usable for another game, but I think if a company like BioWare (or EA) refuses to do new IPs everyone loses out in the long run.

 

Indeed. Though one imagines DA:I would have worked much better as a new IP instead of being basically a re-imagining using the DA franchise, but that would have been risky move. This was safe. 

 

It's good that you're optimistic of the game's success, but I regret paying for it. Take that how you will I guess.

[Allan Schumacher]

Indeed. Though one imagines DA:I would have worked much better as a new IP instead of being basically a re-imagining using the DA franchise, but that would have been risky move. This was safe. 

 

It's good that you're optimistic of the game's success, but I regret paying for it. Take that how you will I guess.

 

It's possible it could have worked out better, or worse. I do feel that a lot of the frustration that some people have is become each of the DA games has changed (which is why didn't like the second one having "2" in the title) in ways that they didn't like, especially if it moved away from aspects they did like.  There are people on both sides of the coin too, as some will enjoy the direction the series has taken.

 

I could only make guesses based on my own experiences (anecdotes) as to whether more people like or dislike the direction though. I'm sure people have experiences that both differ and align with mine (and everything in between).

[Realmzmaster]

Yeah these cycles are completed way too quickly these days...someone could cycle their way through information and their own experiences so many times and come out with enough negative opinions to make it seem like things really are doomed.

 

Doing this with videogames, though, can be exponentially more time-consuming.  I can't tell you know how many times I've read on various forums in the past month about reaching a state of boredom with games such as DA: I and Destiny, but after 20 hours, 40 hours, 4 or more playthroughs/characters, etc.  Was that time before reaching a state of boredom fulfilling in any way at all?  Geez, I hope so.

 

I find it interesting that gamers are getting bored after their 2 or third or fourth playthrough. I can only assume that the gamer got their money's worth. I cannot see someone spending that much time on a game they dislike or hate.

[Elhanan]

I find it interesting that gamers are getting bored after their 2 or third or fourth playthrough. I can only assume that the gamer got their money's worth. I cannot see someone spending that much time on a game they dislike or hate.

And based on content, perhaps total hours played are closer to these other games than some care to admit. Food for thought....

[Lebanese Dude]

I find it interesting that gamers are getting bored after their 2 or third or fourth playthrough. I can only assume that the gamer got their money's worth. I cannot see someone spending that much time on a game they dislike or hate.

 

I have 2000 hours on Civ5 alone and I'm starting to run out of steam.

 

I'm currently bored so clearly it was a wasted purchase.

 

#Logic

[Uccio]

I have 2000 hours on Civ5 alone and I'm starting to run out of steam.

 

I'm currently bored so clearly it was a wasted purchase.

 

#Logic

 

It could be also that people are hell bent forcing themselves on liking the game and crushing through it in hopes of finding that like. Because they loved previous DA games for reasons. Who knows. 

[katokires]

It could be also that people are hell bent forcing themselves on liking the game and crushing through it in hopes of finding that like. Because they loved previous DA games for reasons. Who knows. 

It is obviously the case. I was so shocked when I played this game I had to try to like it. When I came to these forums was because I couldn't believe they made a Dragon Age game I couldn't enjoy in any way. So yeah I came here to storm the gates of hell.

[Spankatola]

It is obviously the case. I was so shocked when I played this game I had to try to like it. When I came to these forums was because I couldn't believe they made a Dragon Age game I couldn't enjoy in any way. So yeah I came here to storm the gates of hell.

 

Does storming the gates of hell include putting 200 hours into the game?