160 réponses à ce sujet

[Vivamoore]

One of the things I enjoyed the most about Bioware games ever since I started playing them five years ago is how it's one of the only types of games where I have a choice to be good, or a choice to be evil as long as I get the job done.

 

It seems like Dragon Age: Inquisition is really missing that evil/douchebag aspect that you used to be able to take.

 

In Origins, you can be almost as ruthless as you want too as long as you get the job done at the end of the game.

You can kill a dying soldier just because.

You can talk your way through getting a key from a prisoner, or just kill him.

etc.

 

There are lots of opportunities here where you can really ask "What would happen if I do this?" and then play through it because you're given the option too.

 

Inquisition really doesn't allow you to do this. You can only be passive aggressive but in the end have mostly the same outcomes. The only instance I really remember is being allowed to kill that Dalish mage in a small side quest. Besides that, very streamlined.

 

Inquisition has actually encouraged me to replay Origins because I miss being able to have so many options. Shouldn't it encourage me to do more playthroughs of the actual game? Or is that just me.

 

but yeah, opinions.

[Jules18]

Off the top of my head, you can be a fairly large douche, but to your point, I can't think of many fundamentally evil choices you can make in this game. However, I think there are enough morally bad choices you can make in this game that make your character much more towards the side of evil then noble on a morality scale.

I was thinking, hey, might it be cool to actually run the inquisition like the old inquisition, just to see what happens, but it opens up a lot of plot questions(why the hell are people still following you, why are people like Cassandra and Cullen supporting you, etc). and it was nothing more then a passing whim. A game as focused as Inquisition, it doesn't really make sense for them to just allow you to be this completely evil dictator(like it might make more sense or not mean anything in GTA or Fallout). 

[Vivamoore]

Off the top of my head, you can be a fairly large douche, but to your point, I can't think of many fundamentally evil choices you can make in this game. However, I think there are enough morally bad choices you can make in this game that make your character much more towards the side of evil then noble on a morality scale.

I was thinking, hey, might it be cool to actually run the inquisition like the old inquisition, just to see what happens, but it opens up a lot of plot questions(why the hell are people still following you, why are people like Cassandra and Cullen supporting you, etc). and it was nothing more then a passing whim. A game as focused as Inquisition, it doesn't really make sense for them to just allow you to be this completely evil dictator(like it might make more sense or not mean anything in GTA or Fallout). 

You could say the same about the Warden.

Why are people still following you in Origins? Because you're the main character and the one that is going to end the blight.

Why are people still following you in Inquisition? Because you're the main character that can close the rift.

[TheJiveDJ]

Off the top of my head, you can be a fairly large douche, but to your point, I can't think of many fundamentally evil choices you can make in this game. However, I think there are enough morally bad choices you can make in this game that make your character much more towards the side of evil then noble on a morality scale.

I was thinking, hey, might it be cool to actually run the inquisition like the old inquisition, just to see what happens, but it opens up a lot of plot questions(why the hell are people still following you, why are people like Cassandra and Cullen supporting you, etc). and it was nothing more then a passing whim. A game as focused as Inquisition, it doesn't really make sense for them to just allow you to be this completely evil dictator(like it might make more sense or not mean anything in GTA or Fallout). 

Wouldn't really describe Inquisition as "focused" given that the game attempts to distract you at every possible moment with menial tasks. BW focused too much on the menial stuff and the story suffered as a result. Also, I think having two voice actors for each sex may be part of the problem because of the extra dialogue which needs to be recorded for branching plots and such.

[Ennai and 54 others]

Inquisition has judgements.If only we could wear our armor at skyhold though(clippings be ignored).

[Ssekyr1]

 

Inquisition really doesn't allow you to do this. You can only be passive aggressive but in the end have mostly the same outcomes. The only instance I really remember is being allowed to kill that Dalish mage in a small side quest. Besides that, very streamlined.

 

Where / when is this quest?

[RobRam10]

Where / when is this quest?

Hinterlands

Solas gives the quest.

[Jules18]

Wouldn't really describe Inquisition as "focused" given that the game attempts to distract you at every possible moment with menial tasks. BW focused too much on the menial stuff and the story suffered as a result. Also, I think having two voice actors for each sex may be part of the problem because of the extra dialogue which needs to be recorded for branching plots and such.

 

Relative to GTA or Fallout 3 and New Vegas, it's pretty focused. I suppose that you could draw similarities with the warden from origins; regardless, I still don't think's it's anywhere near the top of the list with flaws this game has. This I feel is one of the more nit-picky complaints of the game; it's valid to a degree, but you could keep up the same train of logic pretty much beyond reason(because I can't role play my character this way, the immersion is ruined). I'll concede that the game should have allowed you to be more evil just for evil's sake, but I wouldn't call it a huge void of the role playing aspect of the game. 

[Kirikou]

Oh?

[Ssekyr1]

Hinterlands

Solas gives the quest.

 

With Mhiris? She's the only Dalish I know of in the Hinterlands.  Didn't think you had the option to kill her. Then again, I've always convinced her to give up the amulet (haven't explored other options) And the only quest Solas ever gave me was assisiting his Spirit of Wisdom friend. I've played and beaten the game twice, hard to believe I missed something like this.

[Fardreamer]

With Mhiris? She's the only Dalish I know of in the Hinterlands.  Didn't think you had the option to kill her. Then again, I've always convinced her to give up the amulet (haven't explored other options) And the only quest Solas ever gave me was assisiting his Spirit of Wisdom friend. I've played and beaten the game twice, hard to believe I missed something like this.

 

Mhiris only appears if you have Solas in your party because it's the start of the Elven Artifacts quest. 

[Vyndral]

To me it isn't the option to be evil, but the option to do what I want. There are to many times I am forced into stuff because 'story'

Take for example Sera's personal quest. It is a set up a noble hired thugs to kill you. When they fail he is suddenly, join me! Together we can rule the world. My first choice would be kill him. Not evil in my book, he just tried to kill me. But I can't 'story'. After 'story' I can kill him or not, opps more 'story' He is dead.

Why is it like this at all? The dude is a throw away character. Options, after fight let me kill him right away. Or let me talk then kill. Let Sera try to kill him and I tell her not to. Maybe after more dialogue she quits the inquisition. Nothing has changed, any story line with him dead progresses the same as it is now. If he lives maybe Sera leaves. Such a small change, but now I feel like I am playing my character in BWs story, instead of feeling like I am playing BWs character in BW story.

[Jackal19851111]

I agree, there needs to be more "evil" decisions, but I don't like the black/white scale, I prefer grey, grey as in killing a demon possessed child in front of his mother (DAO) - you have your reasons, and must deal the consequences.

 

Not just that, but even the dialogue options don't allow to roleplay as well. Right at the intro I wanted my dalish elf to spit on the shemlens instead my character was speaking as if she's begging for her life trying to escape judgement. DAO was awesome in that respect, not to mention you get to say some of the funniest lines.

 

City Elf (Meeting groom for first time): Who is this? Not my betrothed I hope...

Cousin: By the Maker I can't believe you sometimes! Yes this is B, your betrothed! *leaves*

 

Groom (to City Elf): Do I really make such a bad first impression?

City Elf (close up): The second one isn't much better...

 

I still laugh to this day with that line lol

[Rawgrim]

It is more about the "role" you have during combat, than actual roleplaying, really.

[pengwin21]

I suppose a lot of 'evil' choices in this game depend on what one views as moral. You can 'enslave' the mages, have a violent ruthless reformer as Divine, encourage your military commander to become addicted to a drug, sentence a mage to become Tranquil etc. which could be seen as pretty evil depending upon how you view the issue and your Inquisitor's intentions. You can't murder knife random merchants and stuff though I guess.

[errantknight]

Your potential for straightup douchery is limited by the fact that you're trying to gain allies and influence. You can't threaten your way into that. No one wants to ally with an inquisitor who shivs people in the back because they wanted the shiny.

[KaiserShep]

I find that the evil decisions of Origins were more hilarious than evil. I mean, some guy is profiteering in Lothering, and the Warden gets a funny line before you knife him "I hear you're making a killing. So am I!" lol. You can suddenly get all righteously indignant over Andraste's ashes, and murder some schmuck even though it probably won't help anything at all. Trying to knife the Mad Hermit, etc.. Then there's the off-the-wall suggestion that the werewolves simply wipe out the Dalish. My city elf was hitting the deep mushroom pretty hard when he suggested this, without even knowing if it would be any help at all, because f*** the Dalish! I'm not sure how far the Inquisitor could go if such options existed throughout the game. You can, however, create a pretty fearsome organization that does terrible and shady things. Just look at that ridiculous favor for the that singing bard on the war table. Leliana's suggestion is pretty messed up.

[Lianaar]

Take for example Sera's personal quest. It is a set up a noble hired thugs to kill you. When they fail he is suddenly, join me! Together we can rule the world. My first choice would be kill him. Not evil in my book, he just tried to kill me. But I can't 'story'. After 'story' I can kill him or not, opps more 'story' He is dead.

Why is it like this at all? The dude is a throw away character. Options, after fight let me kill him right away. Or let me talk then kill. Let Sera try to kill him and I tell her not to. Maybe after more dialogue she quits the inquisition. Nothing has changed, any story line with him dead progresses the same as it is now. If he lives maybe Sera leaves. Such a small change, but now I feel like I am playing my character in BWs story, instead of feeling like I am playing BWs character in BW story.

I don't really know what other choices would there be
- kill him
- recruit him
- let him go
Uhm... that is the three choices you have. It is not moving on the scale of good-evil, but let's face it, people you consider evil don't think of themselves as evil.
Evil people or people I consider evil were convinced they are justified and doing good or what needs to be done. Evil is a very relative term, it depends on culture and society what you consider evil. Just like Aztec people didn't consider tearing out someone's heart evil, and I totally do consider it so. Thus letting the noble being beaten to pulp is evil in my book, even if you think it is not evil but justified.

You can be evil, but not due to the sole purpose of being evil. Walking up to people in ruins, taking their stuff from their furniture, and then slaughtering them when they object is also pretty evil in my book (no, I don't necessarily steal everythign in the game, it depends what sort of character I play).

Or let's see the Adamant story's opponent and his judgement. What is evil? Killing him? Turning him to tranquil? Ask Anders what he thinks of the punishment of turning someone into Tranquil. Letting him rot in jail? The person in question considers being killed not to be evil, he is ok with it, since his faith makes him think he is obtaining something good with it. Not the best, but still ok option in his mind. So then killing him is not evil, for he is all right with it.

 

I really think that people should not be seen in the sole scale of good-evil, there are way better approaches, such as self-serving or self-less, individualist or someone working for the greater good, utilitarist or ideologists, atheist or religious zealout. You can play out all those, and you can find perspectives from which all of them are evil.

 

Also, you can hire crows, poison people, frame them. These are wartable operations, but these are part of the story. It is  your choice to set the style of your inquisition in manners when you are not present. If you keep choising the ones where you screw the others, then again, you play an evil inquisitor with an evil Inquisition, or a ruthless one. HOw about that mission where you can cut out the tongue of someone who dared to utter a nasty story about you? That's quite sociaopatic, if you ask me.

[Jackal19851111]

I find that the evil decisions of Origins were more hilarious than evil. I mean, some guy is profiteering in Lothering, and the Warden gets a funny line before you knife him "I hear you're making a killing. So am I!" lol.

 

Yeah some were over the top but surely Bioware can strike a balance can't they?

 

Like hell, using my example, you can still carry on the story as intended if your Dalish at the intro is allowed to spit on the shems. Besides Leliana and Cassandra already had a good cop/bad cop thing going in that interrogation scene.

 

No need to force your Dalish to give up information so meekly and willingly with that sad scared face which ruined my roleplay of the character I intended.

[Ghost_of_Zap]

Hmm lets see... 

 

You can tell Dorian a whole bunch of spirited things and make his adopted father a tranquil.

 

You can tell Solas to shove it for not being elf enough to elf up.

 

You can punch Sera i've been told.

 

You can turn Cassandra into a drunk and tell her to screw herself.

 

Sabotage Viviennes potion so her husband dies without being able to speak his last words to her then tell her she deserves it because you don't like her.

 

Tell Blackwall "Monster? You give yourself too much credit, you're nothing." and leave him to be hanged.

 

Storm the prison and kill a bunch of your allies to save a man who killed a man woman and kids for money (Blackwall)

 

You can save Blackwall by having an innocent look alike hanged instead.

 

You can make at least two mages tranquil or kill them yourself.

 

Can put a guy in a gibbet for throwing a goat.

 

You kill a mother bear and her cubs for being annoying.

 

Can leave a mage to die in the desert. 

 

Can let an empress be murdered for political convenience then blackmail the survivors. 

 

Choose to poison peoples political reputations at the war table for making you look bad.

 

Tell Leiliana to kill a nun. 

 

Have traitors killed even though you know they have information you need.

 

 

 

 

There's probably a whole list of other stuff too but i'm making dinner atm. 

[Bethgael]

You could say the same about the Warden.

Why are people still following you in Origins? Because you're the main character and the one that is going to end the blight.

Why are people still following you in Inquisition? Because you're the main character that can close the rift.

 

Except that in DA:O, if you went too far, they would leave you/try to kill you.

cf: blood in the Ashes. Wynne or Leliana will leave you or attack.

The only ones who will never leave or have a "break point" is Dog and Alistair. Until the Landsmeet, of course, when you can Final Straw Alistair.

[Bethgael]

I suppose a lot of 'evil' choices in this game depend on what one views as moral. You can 'enslave' the mages, have a violent ruthless reformer as Divine, encourage your military commander to become addicted to a drug, sentence a mage to become Tranquil etc. which could be seen as pretty evil depending upon how you view the issue and your Inquisitor's intentions. You can't murder knife random merchants and stuff though I guess.

 

Yes, but it makes no difference to the outcome, I think is what the OP means.

 

Storm the prison and kill a bunch of your allies to save a man who killed a man woman and kids for money (Blackwall)

And, ye gods, that is Cullen's suggestion, too. I was... really???

[choebit]

Yes, but it makes no difference to the outcome, I think is what the OP means.

I agree.

Hell, Bioware should change this game tagline "Lead them, or fall" to "Lead or no lead you still win"

[Vilegrim]

haven't noticed any evil choices, soe pragmatic ones, but no evil.  We are in an organisation called the Inquistion for makers sake, where is the genocide and torture?  For instance inseerting blankets with the DA version of small pox on them to the supplies of the faction we don't choose in the mage templar war, at least make them waste huge amounts of resources quelling the out break weakening them for our assault,  if a few thousand of their friends and family also die...them's the breaks, sucks to be you,  getting information from magister alexius by the infliction of copius amounts of red hot pliers to find out Cories plans..the list of missed opportunities and sentences goes on)

[Lianaar]

It doesn't influence the outcome? So if I don't get a slide letting me know I was an evil bastard, that means I was not one?
What I want to say with it: the game acknowledges your decision, but not in a brutal, neon light sort of way, instead in subtle little notes and changes.
I do understand some people prefer if the acknowledgement was louder. I also know that some people (eg me) prefer the subtle little things.

I also accept that more then likely I am minority. I do state however, that it is not true, you can not act evil. You can act evil, you can even get people telling you to your face, that you are a self-proclaimed arrogant demo-god that proves how worthless people are in this era. You can not just randomly go and kill whoever you want to. I wouldn't mind it being allowed then the game being finished with a scene, where upraged people just lynch the inquisitor while the rest of the inquisition stands by and hails the people doing it, then cuts off his or her hand to use it for sealing rifts. And then the text floats: GAME OVER. That'd be pretty realistic.

Unreasonable evil actions don't promote alliances. If you watch politics or history, you'll see how in case of dire need and big trouble people close in, even opponents unite for a time being putting aside their opinions until the threat is dealt with. But if you start killing randomly, that threatens the achievement of the goal that called for the union and will be simply eliminated.