68 réponses à ce sujet

[Notshauna]

No way in Heck is Blackwall is Lawful Good,he is neutral evil in all respects, he hides his agenda's and only looks for personal gain. Lying stealing other peoples identity.

I strongly disagree. You don't end up doing what he does if you aren't seeking redemption, and that is what he was trying to do in his own way.

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

That change came to late for me he should of been straight forward about his past imo. Hey atleast Iron Bull had the guts to say he was a spy to the PC. 

 

Oh previously, yeah he was, but he went through a change and upholds the ideals of the gray wardens, turned himself in because he wasn't adhering to his lawful-ness, and then redeemed himself.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

No way in Heck is Blackwall is Lawful Good,he is neutral evil in all respects, he hides his agenda's and only looks for personal gain. Lying stealing other peoples identity.

Was definitely true once, but the whole point was kind of that he dedicated himself to protecting others afterwards.

That's kind of why the first time we meet him he's helping villagers fight bandits. Called looking for redemption.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

That change came to late for me he should of been straight forward about his past imo. Hey atleast Iron Bull had the guts to say he was a spy to the PC.

To be fair, it's probably easier to admit 'I'm Ben-Hassrath' than 'I once slaughtered an entire family including the children. Just thought you should know. Right then?'

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

He could of said i did terrible things in the past, and i wish i can atone for it.

 

To be fair, it's probably easier to admit 'I'm Ben-Hassrath' than 'I once slaughtered an entire family including the children. Just thought you should know. Right then?'

[Notshauna]

He could of said i did terrible things in the past, and i wish i can atone for it.

And it's not always easy to admit to yourself what you did much less to others, he wants nothing more than to attone and no one who is evil will sacrifice themselves for that.

[Angloassassin]

Blackwall was a *Huge* Surprise for me, on the first playthrough. The 2nd playthrough I saw more of the subtle hints that were going on, and experienced why I'd never take (Or recruit Vivienne) again.

 

I gel with a lot of the characters and their Morals. Especially Bull, Cullen, and Cole.

 

But Vivienne just *Really* Rubs me the wrong way 10 different ways till Sunday. 

 

Blackwall started out Neutral Evil - but through Redemption has become Lawful good.

 

Cole starts of Neutral Good, and slowly gets set on the path for a more Lawful Good if you do one of the sides for his Companion Quest, and more for a Neutral/Chaotic good if you do the other.

 

And I like Cullen coming Full Circle with his feelings about Ferelden's Circle. It's one of the most emotional scenes the game had (For me).

[Hornless Qunari/Human DPS]

Viv is more of a realist i always recruit her and never take Blackwall   

[Lavaeolus]

Don't take too srs? Excuse me, good sir, but this is D&D alignments: the ultimate and definitive judgment of a character. Prepare yourself.
 
Let's Do Solas:
Initially, Solas seems True Neutral, maybe even Lawful Neutral. Soft, well-spoken, and kind of a loner. But do not be fooled! This man is the quintessential "Chaotic Good by ideal" character. Simply take into account all of his words to Iron Bull, all his fightings for individuality (and perhaps remember Solas's true nature through this).

Spoiler

• Solas: Iron Bull. I understand that among your people, you are... what is the term?
• Iron Bull: Ben-Hassrath. Secret police. Spies, basically.
• Solas: You spied upon your own people.
• Iron Bull: Is that so different from Orlais or Ferelden? They have all kinds of people policing them.
• Solas: What they say and do, yes. Not what they think.
• Iron Bull: What you think is what you say and do.
• Solas: No. Even the lowliest peasant may find freedom in the safety of her thoughts. You take even that.

• Iron Bull: Tell me something, Solas. Do you think the servants here are happier then the people living under the Qun in Par Vollen?
• Solas: It doesn't matter if they are happy, it matters that they may choose!
• Iron Bull: Choose? Choose what? Whether to do their work or get tossed onto the street to starve?
• Solas: Yes! If a Ferelden servant decides that his life goal is to... become a poet, he can follow that dream!
• Solas: It may be difficult, and he might fail. But the whole of society is not aligned to oppose him!
• Iron Bull: Sure, and good for him. How many servants actually go do that, though?
• Solas: Almost none! What does that matter?
• Solas: Your Qun would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!
• Iron Bull: And then people feel like crap for failing.
• Iron Bull: When the truth is, the deck was stacked against them anyway.

And he's just so happy if

Spoiler

Iron Bull chooses "freedom" over "mindless obedience to the Qun".

It is clear that Solas is Chaotic. We may stand him in contrast to Sera's "Chaoticness", but Solas's form is no less valid for the label -- perhaps more valid, even, as Sera would soon plunge the world back to "normal".
 
But where does the Good come in? Solas believes in freedom, believes it is the only way to live a happy, satisfactory life. He believes it helps people, and that is why he likes it. Why do you think, he did those things... so long ago... And generally, helping people? Approves. I set up watchtowers to save random citizens, and he sure approved of that. When other groups began commiting Evil actions, such as the Grey Wardens, he disavowed them. Despite his trickery, despite that, you know,

Spoiler

he's kind of responsible for the whole mess

by intent he has always tried to do right.
 
Also!

No way in Heck is Blackwall is Lawful Good,he is neutral evil in all respects, he hides his agenda's and only looks for personal gain. Lying stealing other peoples identity.

This is a misrepresentation of the most gross kind. Never forget by the end of it, Blackwall as he is now, jumped in and sacrificed his life to come out, tell the truth, and save a man from false-execution. This is not the action of a self-serving man.

"Blackwall", as he is now, regardless of the past, is Good, working only to help others, if somewhat crass at times.

[daveliam]

My stab at it:

 

Cassandra - Lawful Good

Solas - True Neutral?

Varric - Chaotic Good

Vivienne - Lawful Neutral

Sera - Chaotic Good

Iron Bull - Chaotic Good?  (Lawful Neutral? Chaotic Neutral? -- Damn, he's a tough one )

Blackwall - Lawful Neutral

Dorian - Chaotic Good

Cole - Neutral Good

Cullen - Lawful Good

Leliana - Neutral Good

Josephine - Lawful Good?

[vertigomez]

^^Bless this post.

I think it's really nice that we're seeing these subversions... Chaotic characters (like Solas) being quiet and reserved, Lawful characters like Bull being boisterous and loud... even Sera, as crazy as she is, wants the world to be orderly and normal and utterly without freaky deaky magic so she can "play".

[yawnandshrug]

Here's my take on things.

 

Cassandra - Lawful religious nut

Varric - Chaotic bro

Solas - Neutral/nerdy fairly well adjusted

Vivienne - Evil bi*ch

Sera - Chaotic thick in the head

BlackWall - Evil anime GREY WARDEN fanboy

Iron Bull - Chaotic awesome

Dorian - pinkoleftistsubversive

Cole - Good kid

Cullen - Good fangirl pandering

Leliana - Lawful GRIMDARK

Josephine - Disney facepalm

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Cassandra - Lawful Good

Varric - Neutral Good

Solas - Chaotic Neutral

Iron Bull - True Neutral

Sera - Chaotic Neutral

Dorian - Chaotic Good

Blackwall - Lawful Neutral

Cole - Neutral Good

Vivienne - Lawful Neutral

Cullen - Lawful Good

Leliana - Chaotic Neutral

Josephine Neutral Good

 

Yeah, there aren't really any evil companions/major characters, but other than Loghain, no one from the previous games was either really.

[Lavaeolus]

@above: I'd argue that Morrigan is more D&D Evil, in Origins at least, than Loghain. I mean, there are moments where she'll berate you for not wiping out the Circle not for any pragmatic benefit but simply because she doesn't like them giving up freedom.

"Evil" doesn't have to be actively "Well, time to go do some Evil things I guess", after all.

[Steelcan]

I don't think we have any real True Neutrals for companions in DA games, excluding Dog.

[vertigomez]

I don't think we have any real True Neutrals for companions in DA games, excluding Dog.

I'd say Fenris was True Neutral. "Guard what you have, keep your head low" and all that. And aside from (obviously) favoring the templars he wasn't especially pro-order.

[Steelcan]

I'd say Fenris was True Neutral.

nah, he definitely ventured into chaotic with his vigilantism

[vertigomez]

nah, he definitely ventured into chaotic with his vigilantism

I dunno, he seems pretty textbook TN to me:

True Neutral characters are indifferent to Order Versus Chaos, and their only interest is in living their own lives. They simply live their lives, whether that means tearing down a code of laws, following a code of laws, creating an orderly society, causing the breakdown of some kinds of order, or staying away from society altogether. They have no particular objective.

Aside from killing slavers and grumbling about mages, he really doesn't care about much. Not very into Chaos for the sake of Chaos - there's always a purpose to his vigilantism...

[Steelcan]

he isn't indifferent to order vs chaos, he is firmly pro templar which is pro-order, so I guess he'd actually be lawful not chaotic

[Notshauna]

I'd say Fenris was True Neutral. "Guard what you have, keep your head low" and all that. And aside from (obviously) favoring the templars he wasn't especially pro-order.

I think there are compelling arguments for him being either Chaotic or Lawful but I don't think he is true Neutral. I personally believe he is a very lawful person in his own right and despite his disagreements with the order of Tevinter. But, Fenris is one of the characters who don't really fit into DnD alignments well at all, as his belief system isn't really defined by order VS chaos or good VS evil.

 

Also Zevran is undeniably evil, I mean he is an Assassin and does literally take pleasure in murdering people for money. 

[vertigomez]

I see why Fenris could be Lawful. He does seem to have that tendency.

I wouldn't classify Zev as evil, though. He begs you not to slaughter the Dalish, calls annulling the Circle "genocide" and pleads with you to have mercy on the mages, and believes in providing a quick, painless death rather than prolonging suffering. If you taunt the Dalish guy with his werewolf wife's death in the Dalish camp, he has a huge approval drop -- twice as much as Alistair, Leliana, or Wynne.

[katokires]

Solas is a whole new alignment Chaotic Chaos. He loves elves, he hates elves, he is an elf, he is a god, he is a goddess, so he is lesbian and also hetero and also a dragon and a wolf and an old lady and good and evil and lawful and trickster he is morrigans mother and perhaps her son and spock and nosferatu vampire with toreador charisma and well... O____O

[vertigomez]

Solas is a whole new alignment Chaotic Chaos. He loves elves, he hates elves, he is an elf, he is a god, he is a goddess, so he is lesbian and also hetero and also a dragon and a wolf and an old lady and good and evil and lawful and trickster he is morrigans mother and perhaps her son and spock and nosferatu vampire with toreador charisma and well... O____O

Toreador charisma? That's Presence!

[Notshauna]

I see why Fenris could be Lawful. He does seem to have that tendency.

I wouldn't classify Zev as evil, though. He begs you not to slaughter the Dalish, calls annulling the Circle "genocide" and pleads with you to have mercy on the mages, and believes in providing a quick, painless death rather than prolonging suffering. If you taunt the Dalish guy with his werewolf wife's death in the Dalish camp, he has a huge approval drop -- twice as much as Alistair, Leliana, or Wynne.

I mean I guess he does have the Thane thing going on where he's all like I don't really kill them, I was only the assassin hired to kill them, Gun bullet thing. Though I disagree with this because people make choices and I was just following orders doesn't really cut it. On a personal level he isn't cruel (he's not a monster) but he is evil simply because he will do what he does.