1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Yulia]

I exiled them for their own safety, They would have a lot to answer for from the people of Thedas using blood magic and sacrifice (something they've never done to end a blight and has been forbidden in the first place). I also thought they could be a potential threat if they were possessed again and i'd have to put them down once again so better to exile them and them wait it out before being let back in. They deserve to not be executed as they are hero's who have saved Thedas 5 times and counting. Also gotta remember the Wardens are the only ones who can stop the blight. To the guy whom says you need only one warden, you are wrong, (my opinion) yes you do only need one warden to kill the Arch demon however there is nothing wrong with having backup in case that one you send dies on the way to getting to the Arch demon. Example would be DA origins when that elder warden died while your warden and Alistair are fighting there way through the city. Wardens also have helped in many situations that re post blight situations. so not only do they give their lives during a blight, they do help post blight anyway they can as it's an oath to protect the world of Thedas.

[BubbleDncr]

I kept them around because they deserve a second chance to make up for ****** everything up.

 

Also, my Lavellan basically idolizes my Dalish Hero of Ferelden, which makes her want to believe in the Grey Wardens.

[The Baconer]

Other than the massive amounts of disaproval you net with Solas, Cassandra and Cole.

 

Cassandra disapproves? Kind of hypocritical considering her relationship with the Seekers, no?

[skotie]

But those are the bulk of Wardens.  Hard to get anyone else to join an order where death comes sooner rather than later.  

That's also the bulk of thier order because people mistakenly believe them mostly useless outside of blights, which are just when an arch demon rallies the horde, but that horde remains.

 

One of these religions is working with Cory to end the world RIGHT NOW.

 

The other is working to try and stop it.

 

My priorities are just fine, thank you.

Actually the chantry didn't support the inquisition. Not as a whole anyways.

[keekee53]

Well what did everyone expect from the Grey Wardens?  They literally recruited all the thieves and murderers in Thedas.  Oh you are about to die Mr. Murderer, well let's see if you survive the joining...I mean you were going to die anyway...lol.  Who else were they going to get to be a warden except people who had nothing to lose?  Jory was even trying to run when he found out what he had to do to become a Grey Warden.   Alistair and your warden were probably the most noblest wardens in the order.  I even felt like Duncan was tricking people to join...sure I will rescue you but it will cost you...lol

 

It was sad to see what the Grey Wardens became but not surprising.  Origins gave us a very skewed look at Wardens and Mages in my opinion.

 

I probably still would keep them around...in the end we still need Wardens unless someone figures out another way to kill the archdemon...just my opinion.

[Hazegurl]

...and yet, for 4 centuries, it wasn't a problem. Since it didn't take 4 centuries to defeat Cory, I don't think that's going to be an issue. Let's also not forget that it was like they were exiled out of spite, from Ferelden. They were exiled because they tried to overthrow the rightful King. Maric allowed them back in, and even though it's HoF and Alistair most of the game, there were more than 2 Wardens at the Kocari Wilds.

My point is that relying on them to always come back, and come back on time just because you call, is sort of shortsighted. I'm not going to argue about whether they should have gotten exiled in Fereldan long ago as this isn't about that. It's about whether or not it's a good idea to exile them when you honestly have no clue at all if you have a current Blight on your hands. And I'll always say that it isn't the wisest option. At least not for me. Not every Warden is the HoF, he/she ended the Blight despite the odds and the lack of a GW army. Not because of it.

[Fearsome1]

One does not simply banish the mustache that is stroud.

 

Stroud takes the exile in stride, not so much as batting an eye. As the surviving Senior Grey Warden (should this prove to be your choice), he must understand that this might be necessary; rather than leave the order within the sphere of Corypheus?

 

I've recruited them in one run and also evicted them in another, and still don't know exactly which option is my preference.

[BloodyTalon]

senseible in terms of war, why they may not be able to help directly do to the false callibg. Thery serve well has elite hit squads and there has been darkspawn popping up in odd places and better to have that rtesouce at hand then let normal soliders go after them, also they can still be used to fight stray demons has needed.  Rather have being used to noble purpose under watch, then letting them go to waste.

Over all reason no one knows when tthe next blight will happen and that resouce needs to be around.

Just my two bits.

(Plus have one playthrough where they get exiled and its not a pretty ending, wardens die out or seem to.)

[theblackfox]

One of these religions is working with Cory to end the world RIGHT NOW.

 

Uh-huh. Except that Clarel and therefore all wardens below her thought Corypheus was dead.

[Dragoonlordz]

I kept them around and suffered no consequences for it. They are a well trained and highly skill fighting force that could use to our advantage plus also according to my epilogue they thrived and rebuilt according to my ending, they adapted and became more focused on helping others when not during blights too, less isolationist. They also helped save a village from darkspawn after kept them and they will be needed when another blight happens and there will be other blights as there still remains old gods that have yet to awaken from slumber. I see no reason to banish them outside of fear of what (might) have happened to them during the rest of the game especially given I kept my wardens fighting demons and darkspawn away from Cory or the only other reason I could see being nothing more than banishing just as a knee jerk reaction to a single event.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Done both.  The character who kept them did it to keep that particular group safe / use their abilities.  No telling what Corypheus could be doing to the other Warden mages.  Why send those who had fought against him off where they could do no good or be turned against Thedas again?

 

The other character thought they were all secretive, vulnerable, and dangerous and couldn't kick them out fast enough.

[BroBear Berbil]

I kept them around and suffered no consequences for it. They are a well trained and highly skill fighting force that could use to our advantage plus also according to my epilogue they thrived and rebuilt according to my ending, they adapted and became more focused on helping others when not during blights too, less isolationist.

 

Disney tier writing.

[robertthebard]

My point is that relying on them to always come back, and come back on time just because you call, is sort of shortsighted. I'm not going to argue about whether they should have gotten exiled in Fereldan long ago as this isn't about that. It's about whether or not it's a good idea to exile them when you honestly have no clue at all if you have a current Blight on your hands. And I'll always say that it isn't the wisest option. At least not for me. Not every Warden is the HoF, he/she ended the Blight despite the odds and the lack of a GW army. Not because of it.

Sorry, but you brought it up. I was, after all, replying to your post. The point being, they are not the white knights that some want to believe. We really don't need much in the way of evidence, considering the events in this game. They weren't just manipulated, they were easily manipulated. Keeping them can represent a clear and present danger to the Inquisition. We, of course, have the advantage of metagame, but really, if we're putting ourselves into our Inquisitor's shoes, there is no right or wrong answer. I have two games past this point, and have done both versions. My Dalish didn't trust that it couldn't happen again, and exiled them, my Human kept them around, hoping that defeating the avatar of the Fear Demon would suffice to keep them from Cory's sway.

[Dragoonlordz]

Disney tier writing.

 

Whether consider it disney tier writing or not, that is in fact what mine did in the game. Bioware showed in my playthrough keeping them was the best solution and rewarded me for taking the risk as long as I made some good decisions about their use while present. What happened in other peoples playthrough's has no baring on that since my character never lived in their worlds, my character lived in mine. It is possible Bioware will write in future games scenarios which undermine my choices but so far in this game my choices turned out to be the best ones so far according to the epilogue of my playthrough. There was risk in making those choices but the risk payed off in the end.

[Bladenite1481]

Sorry, but you brought it up. I was, after all, replying to your post. The point being, they are not the white knights that some want to believe. We really don't need much in the way of evidence, considering the events in this game. They weren't just manipulated, they were easily manipulated. Keeping them can represent a clear and present danger to the Inquisition. We, of course, have the advantage of metagame, but really, if we're putting ourselves into our Inquisitor's shoes, there is no right or wrong answer. I have two games past this point, and have done both versions. My Dalish didn't trust that it couldn't happen again, and exiled them, my Human kept them around, hoping that defeating the avatar of the Fear Demon would suffice to keep them from Cory's sway.

Is any true militant organization pure or just? The only difference between the Wardens and even the Chevalier is that the Wardens have to drink blood and risk their lives just to have a chance at fighting their enemy. Do you think that is a choice that everyone wants to make? Risk your life just to become one of the order and then live a miserable existence of isolation where people mistrust everything you do? And for what? The people sure aren't grateful, the only peace you are offered is your death. So yeah, I could see how those without a future anyway ie criminals would be obliged to enter into such an order. 

 

Military of every age and country have always fought with the fine line between murder and war. There have been monuments created in history that still stand today that were made simply so soldiers could feel forgiven, absolved of their guilt. In order to fight the corruption of humanity the Wardens were created, but in order to fight the creatures that men become, they themselves had to drink of that same corruption. Not much is said about the first Wardens but it stands to reason that they were good people, maybe even honest people. After all the treaties of the Wardens call for all nations to stand as basically cannon fodder so one Warden might have the chance to end a blight. 

 

I think a lot of that has to do with who is willing to accept the burden. If there is no Warden left, then everyone dies so the Wardens started taking whoever they could find, including criminals. The other issue is leadership, you don't have to be a Mage or called by blood to be corrupt. A simple lie told by a person of power can have just as much influence over a nation as someone swayed by the darkness of their own blood. 

 

I do not think the Wardens are any more dark than any other martial unit. They are simply an easy target. 

[Father_Jerusalem]

Uh-huh. Except that Clarel and therefore all wardens below her thought Corypheus was dead.

 

Oh, so your defense is that... instead of working for the evil trying to destroy the world, they're just trying to cause another Blight and destroy the world on their own.

 

I'm not sure how good a lawyer you'd make, honestly.

[Dragoonlordz]

Sorry, but you brought it up. I was, after all, replying to your post. The point being, they are not the white knights that some want to believe. We really don't need much in the way of evidence, considering the events in this game. They weren't just manipulated, they were easily manipulated. Keeping them can represent a clear and present danger to the Inquisition. We, of course, have the advantage of metagame, but really, if we're putting ourselves into our Inquisitor's shoes, there is no right or wrong answer. I have two games past this point, and have done both versions. My Dalish didn't trust that it couldn't happen again, and exiled them, my Human kept them around, hoping that defeating the avatar of the Fear Demon would suffice to keep them from Cory's sway.

 

Lets not forget that the templars were easily manipulated by Samson, the seekers manipulated by Corin, the mages were manipulated by Fiona/Alexius, the chantry is often manipulated and even the inquisition was manipulated from the offset by Sola's, your inquisitor manipulated by Dagna on her quest, by Sera in your first meeting and by others. That is just in this game alone, there are vastly more examples of such occurrences throughout the series so far across all organizations in Theda's so I hardly think a single occurrence of manipulation of the wardens warrants disbanding the organization or even exiling them. Just need to remove the person who is misleading them and put them back on the right path just as do with all manipulated organizations in Theda's when occurs.

[Dabrikishaw]

I have only exiled them once, but never again. Thedas needs Grey Warden for the Blight, there's really no arguing against that.

[robertthebard]

Is any true militant organization pure or just? The only difference between the Wardens and even the Chevalier is that the Wardens have to drink blood and risk their lives just to have a chance at fighting their enemy. Do you think that is a choice that everyone wants to make? Risk your life just to become one of the order and then live a miserable existence of isolation where people mistrust everything you do? And for what? The people sure aren't grateful, the only peace you are offered is your death. So yeah, I could see how those without a future anyway ie criminals would be obliged to enter into such an order. 
 
Military of every age and country have always fought with the fine line between murder and war. There have been monuments created in history that still stand today that were made simply so soldiers could feel forgiven, absolved of their guilt. In order to fight the corruption of humanity the Wardens were created, but in order to fight the creatures that men become, they themselves had to drink of that same corruption. Not much is said about the first Wardens but it stands to reason that they were good people, maybe even honest people. After all the treaties of the Wardens call for all nations to stand as basically cannon fodder so one Warden might have the chance to end a blight. 
 
I think a lot of that has to do with who is willing to accept the burden. If there is no Warden left, then everyone dies so the Wardens started taking whoever they could find, including criminals. The other issue is leadership, you don't have to be a Mage or called by blood to be corrupt. A simple lie told by a person of power can have just as much influence over a nation as someone swayed by the darkness of their own blood. 
 
I do not think the Wardens are any more dark than any other martial unit. They are simply an easy target.

I'm not sure you quoted the right person? I can't get to your context based on my post.

[Bladenite1481]

I'm not sure you quoted the right person? I can't get to your context based on my post.

That nobody in this game is a white knight and everyone can be manipulated. Wardens are just an easy target because they have a unilateral cause and what they do is destructive. Sort of like the Ghostbusters. 

[robertthebard]

Lets not forget that the templars were easily manipulated by Samson, the seekers manipulated by Corin, the mages were manipulated by Fiona/Alexius, the chantry is often manipulated and even the inquisition was manipulated from the offset by Sola's, your inquisitor manipulated by Dagna on her quest, by Sera in your first meeting and by others. That is just in this game alone, there are vastly more examples of such occurrences throughout the series so far across all organizations in Theda's so I hardly think a single occurrence of manipulation of the wardens warrants disbanding the organization or even exiling them. Just need to remove the person who is misleading them and put them back on the right path just as do with all manipulated organizations in Theda's when occurs.

Let's not forget that, so what's the best decision to make for each faction? Kick 'em all, or keep 'em all? Aren't these decisions going to be based, in part, on the particular Inquisitor, which is something that I don't just imply in the post you quoted, but outright state. I realize you like to deal in absolutes, but there absolutely is no right answer to this situation.

[Camenae]

I exiled them for their own safety, They would have a lot to answer for from the people of Thedas using blood magic and sacrifice (something they've never done to end a blight and has been forbidden in the first place). 

 

I like this, that they needed to be exiled for their own safety.  I exiled the wardens and I viewed as more like: 

 

Inquisitor: *in a booming voice, posturing for the crowd looking super serious* "GET OUT YOU DEMON-LOVERS!!..." 

 

*as an aside out of the corner of my lips to the Wardens* "...Juuuuuuuust until this thing here blows over a bit then I'll get the Emperor/Empress of Orlais to issue a decree to let y'all come back."  I mean the ruler of Orlais will do whatever you tell him/her/her to do.  

[robertthebard]

That nobody in this game is a white knight and everyone can be manipulated. Wardens are just an easy target because they have a unilateral cause and what they do is destructive. Sort of like the Ghostbusters.

All of the factions have unilateral causes. They always have, they all have clearly stated "mission statements". Saying "because of their mission statement, we can never exile the Wardens" is wrong. Exiling them, or not, is a choice every Inquisitor makes on their own. Even with all the metagame knowledge at my disposal, I have done both. So your position is what, that I can, according to you, play my games wrong?

[BuddyL0ve]

If it's not in game it didn't happen.

 

I don't care if Bioware considers then canon or not, the vast majority of players haven't read them.

Doesn't matter if you think it's canon or not. It's what Bioware is building their world off of, whether people have read them or not. So yeah, that happened.

For the people claiming you only need one Grey Warden to end a Blight...

So, there's an Archdemon (Blighted Dragon) and a whole host of Darkspawn. Darkspawn, who can pass the Blight like it's hyper-plague, and that kills and corrupts normal people in minutes to hours. Bearing that in mind, how do you plan to get that one Grey Warden to the Archdemon, when your army is dropping like flies? They are immune to the the taint. So you need a fair bit more than one Grey Warden.

The HoF pulled it off because Protagonist Powah.