1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

personally in just sorry i couldnt execute the survivors and then nuke Weisshaupt

[DarkSpiral]

Ah ah ah.

 

The RITUAL to become a Grey Warden, and Archdemon blood, are the only tools that can defeat a Blight.

 

Hence my desire for a DLC wherein I can cleanse Weisshaupt of the corrupt Grey Wardens and take the ritual and the blood for safekeeping in the Inquisition, thus providing a new, stable order with which we can properly defeat the Blights.

 

The Grey Wardens themselves aren't needed. 

HA! 

 

Now that's ambition.  I applaud you sir.

[hexediter]

I feel like half the people here don't understand why the Wardens did what they did. 

 

1.If they are all hearing the calling they assume that they and all Wardens everywhere on thedas are all going to die. 

 

2.One quite possible logical end point of this the grey wardens as an orginaization will be lost and the next blight will go unchecked. 

 

3.Tiviniter mage shows up and says hey I have a plan and they think about it and decide that it's their only option since doing nothing likely leads to castrophic blight.

 

It's a nuclear option, ugly as hell with room for all kinds of problems even if they suceed, the only other option is to find a cure which is in no way garunteed to come in time (guess who's trying to do that). 

 

What were they supposed to do?  Ignore their mandate, the reason they exist?  Someone pressed the right button and used them, this wasn't just some random idea to stop the blights forever so we can all stop being wardens and be happy.

[Gamyu]

Ah ah ah.

 

The RITUAL to become a Grey Warden, and Archdemon blood, are the only tools that can defeat a Blight.

 

Hence my desire for a DLC wherein I can cleanse Weisshaupt of the corrupt Grey Wardens and take the ritual and the blood for safekeeping in the Inquisition, thus providing a new, stable order with which we can properly defeat the Blights.

 

The Grey Wardens themselves aren't needed. 

Define "properly defeat the Blights." Also define "corrupt Grey Wardens." 

 

I know the First Warden is trying to gain power in the Anderfels, but who can really blame the guy or gal. Andefels is probably the worst place possible to lives in, a devastated land of vast, stark steppes resulting from the Blights. According to Riordan, their King is weak, thus the people rely on the Wardens for any real leadership.  The Authority also only care about their capital, Hossberg, so the Wardens are the only one who help the people who lives in remote areas, and help fight darkspawns since darkspawns appear on a daily basic in the Anderfels.

 

And I don't know about you, but they have been doing a really great job at keeping the secrets of the Joining for like 900 years now. Or go ahead and kill all those Wardens, keep their secret with Inquisition and hope that the Inquisition will not be corrupted from all its power. Just look at the Inquisition now, so similar to when the Grey Warden Order was young...loved and respected by Thedas and have a definite purpose to exist, but sooner or later, they will try to forget you because they do not want to be reminded of past or future problems.

[robertthebard]

Honestly, if you can't grasp the importance of Grey Wardens in Thedas, then you're not a real Dragon Age fan.

Really? So the fact that we're not actively in a Blight has no bearing on the conversation, just that you, as the newest God of BSN have spoken, and not doing what you think means we're wrong. Contrary to the panic exhibited here, we're not killing them off, we're sending them away, or not, depending on how the Inquisitor of the moment decides to handle it. Contrary to what your self proclaimed Worship thinks, I don't have to like the Grey Wardens to like Dragon Age. I have two games where they're not even the main focus, and one where they're only peripherally involved, if they're involved at all. Unless we want to run with Anders being representative of the Wardens? In which case, given the events in Kirkwall, along with the events at Adamant, if you don't exile them, you're a fool.

[Almostfaceman]

Seriously, is there any sensible stance in favor of letting them stay? I know we all love them as a whole, but the branch we deal with in Inquisition was faced with trouble and defaulted to USE BLOOD MAGIC TO SUMMON A DEMON ARMY. If it were any other faction, we'd put every one of them to the sword, but nostalgia for Origins means that almost everyone let them go with a promise to not do it again. Ridiculous!

 

Doing either is a risk, Nobody has any knowledge of the extent of Cory's power. We could exile the Wardens, and they get mind controlled where they go and cause trouble there. One train of thought, that has nothing to do with nostalgia, is that we keep them close to keep a better eye on them, since our main job is establishing and maintaining order. 

 

The Grey Wardens, at the moment, are the only defense against a Blight. Better to keep them and maintain them, dealing with any drawbacks, until something better as a Blight solution presents itself. 

 

So it's six and a half dozen one or the other. You can send them away and mainly it just makes some folks feel better, or keep them and just keep an eye on them. Knee jerk reactions aren't very helpful. All and any organization can (and probably will) be infiltrated or make mistakes. How important the organization is determines its worth, and the Wardens are obviously worth keeping around. Weed out the problem children and ally with them, helping them police themselves. 

 

It's sensible that I send Hawke to manage them either way, exile or staying,. 

[robertthebard]

I feel like half the people here don't understand why the Wardens did what they did. 
 
1.If they are all hearing the calling they assume that they and all Wardens everywhere on thedas are all going to die. 
 
2.One quite possible logical end point of this the grey wardens as an orginaization will be lost and the next blight will go unchecked. 
 
3.Tiviniter mage shows up and says hey I have a plan and they think about it and decide that it's their only option since doing nothing likely leads to castrophic blight.
 
It's a nuclear option, ugly as hell with room for all kinds of problems even if they suceed, the only other option is to find a cure which is in no way garunteed to come in time (guess who's trying to do that). 
 
What were they supposed to do?  Ignore their mandate, the reason they exist?  Someone pressed the right button and used them, this wasn't just some random idea to stop the blights forever so we can all stop being wardens and be happy.

I didn't miss a thing, and the surviving Wardens evidently didn't either. They knew they were manipulated and in the wrong, and if you choose to exile them, they don't take up arms to fight that "injustice", they leave. Evidently, they're wiser than some people give them credit for.

But let's look at the glaring flaw in their plan, shall we: They're going to stop the Blights by drastically reducing their numbers to replace them with Demons. Hey, they don't need food, probably can't be corrupted, but they also can't slay an archdemon, at least not permanently. I know, "No problem Rob, they still have an army of mages that can", which assumes that said army lives to get to the Old Gods. One Horde 1/2 the size as what was at Ostagar, and their brilliant plan means that they're all dead, with no Wardens in the South should a Blight occur. Being exiled, they can return to fight the Archdemon, but there's really no coming back from death by stupidity to do it. I'd also like to point out that romanticism aside, the only reason we need Wardens to end a Blight is because they're the only ones that can permanently kill an Archdemon. Sure, they make great shock troops against a horde, but since we haven't seen a horde, and we have no Archdemon, we have no Blight. At this stage, they're a luxury, and a risky one, metagaming excluded.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

I feel like half the people here don't understand why the Wardens did what they did. 

 

1.If they are all hearing the calling they assume that they and all Wardens everywhere on thedas are all going to die. 

 

2.One quite possible logical end point of this the grey wardens as an orginaization will be lost and the next blight will go unchecked. 

 

3.Tiviniter mage shows up and says hey I have a plan and they think about it and decide that it's their only option since doing nothing likely leads to castrophic blight.

 

It's a nuclear option, ugly as hell with room for all kinds of problems even if they suceed, the only other option is to find a cure which is in no way garunteed to come in time (guess who's trying to do that). 

 

What were they supposed to do?  Ignore their mandate, the reason they exist?  Someone pressed the right button and used them, this wasn't just some random idea to stop the blights forever so we can all stop being wardens and be happy.

People who say "only other option" or "no alternatives" often overlook the obvious, so let me state at least one other option.

 

3b. They decide to write letters to the heads of state of Thedas, the Chantry, and anybody else who might listen, telling them how to end blights. They might also want to auction off any remaining archdemon blood or put it in a blood bank, to save future rulers the trouble of acquiring this first.* Sure, this would significantly weaken the Grey Wardens as an organization, probably making it lose most support and rendering it obsolete in short order, but they are doing this for the sake of the world, right?

1. Get fresh darkspawn blood
2. Drink mix of darkspawn blood, preserved archdemon blood, and lyrium (recipe helpfully supplied in the letter together with any important details of the joining ritual)
3. Have a survivor of 2) present for the killing blow on an archdemon.

Tadaa!

 

Future blights might not have a trained body of anti-blight warriors present at the outset, but with every major power knowing what to do in case of a blight and the bulk of the fighting in all blights being done by regular warriors anyhow (with the last one only used a handful of Grey Wardens after Ostagar as the extreme example), it seems unlikely in the extreme that the knowledge would be lost.

 

The next blight would probably last longer than the 5th, where the untrained Warden, who became hero of Ferelden, so fortuitously went around Thedas solving everybody's problems and compelling them to join by ancient treaties in next to no time, but then, the 5th blight was an aberration in that respect.

 

All other blights lasted years, in some cases decades, which is more than enough time to prepare your own corps of Archdemon killers when faced with a blight.

 

Grey Wardens or not, blights would be checked in time - and moreover, there wouldn't be a small group of people as the point-failure for checking blights.

 

 

* Just think of how much Archdemon blood was likely wasted at the end of the fifth blight, because nobody outside the Grey Wardens knew how valuable saving it would be.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Define "properly defeat the Blights." Also define "corrupt Grey Wardens." 

 

I know the First Warden is trying to gain power in the Anderfels, but who can really blame the guy or gal. Andefels is probably the worst place possible to lives in, a devastated land of vast, stark steppes resulting from the Blights. According to Riordan, their King is weak, thus the people rely on the Wardens for any real leadership.  The Authority also only care about their capital, Hossberg, so the Wardens are the only one who help the people who lives in remote areas, and help fight darkspawns since darkspawns appear on a daily basic in the Anderfels.

 

And I don't know about you, but they have been doing a really great job at keeping the secrets of the Joining for like 900 years now. Or go ahead and kill all those Wardens, keep their secret with Inquisition and hope that the Inquisition will not be corrupted from all its power. Just look at the Inquisition now, so similar to when the Grey Warden Order was young...loved and respected by Thedas and have a definite purpose to exist, but sooner or later, they will try to forget you because they do not want to be reminded of past or future problems.

 

"Properly defeat the Blights" = not having a group that answers to no king and kingdom guard the most valuable secret in the world out of pure selfishness. If you tell people how to defeat the Blights, you will have a much easier time defeating them. Spread the knowledge of the ritual around, tell people how to kill Archdemons, and the Blights will last even less than the Fifth Blight did. 

 

"Corrupt" = Um. Pretty much, like, summoning demons and ****. That's... that's pretty corrupt.

[o Ventus]

Really? So the fact that we're not actively in a Blight has no bearing on the conversation, just that you, as the newest God of BSN have spoken, and not doing what you think means we're wrong. Contrary to the panic exhibited here, we're not killing them off, we're sending them away, or not, depending on how the Inquisitor of the moment decides to handle it. Contrary to what your self proclaimed Worship thinks, I don't have to like the Grey Wardens to like Dragon Age. I have two games where they're not even the main focus, and one where they're only peripherally involved, if they're involved at all. Unless we want to run with Anders being representative of the Wardens? In which case, given the events in Kirkwall, along with the events at Adamant, if you don't exile them, you're a fool.

Sending the Wardens away doesn't make any sense. It isn't as if the Darkspawn keep to a regular schedule when they begin a Blight. If the Wardens are all gone, and a Blight begins, how do you intend to stop it?

[Pi2r Epsilon]

Sending the Wardens away doesn't make any sense. It isn't as if the Darkspawn keep to a regular schedule when they begin a Blight. If the Wardens are all gone, and a Blight begins, how do you intend to stop it?

Invite them back from exile?

 

And if it looks like all the Wardens are going to be gone for good at some time, how about imprisoning the last ones before it is too late, interrograting them until they spill the beans on how to kill archdemons? (Or ask them without interrogation, if you think that'll do you any good).

 

After all, let's look at what the rulers of Thedas know:

1. If they read the old historical reports, they know that archdemons can survive being, and that the Grey Wardens are nevertheless able to somehow kill archdemons. This is the single thing that the Grey Wardens do, that is not easily replicated by normal armies, and it is the primary reason why they are important.
2. Some Grey Wardens are mages, some not, so magical ability does not seem to be important to the job of the Grey Warden.
3. The Grey Wardens are people of all races, so race doesn't seem to be important.
4. The Grey Wardens are recruited or conscripted from all layers of society. There is no apparent commonality between which become Grey Wardens and which do not.
5. Everything points to the Grey Wardens having some institutional knowledge, which is the key to killing archdemons, be it knowledge of training, of specific magic to use, of access to certain magic items, rather than the people who become or are Grey Wardens being important.
6. The Grey Wardens do not share such knowledge, but, if they did, there is no reason to believe a priori that one would not be able to replicate their work. After all, the Grey Wardens do it by drawing recruits from the same pool of people that the rulers do.

In fact, it seems downright irresponsible if none of the rulers of Thedas in the past have done what is necessary to learn the Grey Wardens knowledge, whether it be by infiltrating the organization or by torture. Likewise, it seems pretty unlikely that no Grey Warden has chosen to break ranks and spill the beans. Heck, the Grey Wardens might even officially have told some governments under an agreement that it would be kept secret until a time of need, letting the Grey Wardens do what is necessary without the governments having to dirty their hands, which would be much more responsible than what we are supposed to believe happened.

 

The more I think of it, the less likely it seems that the Grey Wardens have managed to keep such a vital secret for hundreds of years. One way or the other, it seems much more likely that at least some of the present-day rulers have access to that knowledge in their records, in which case ALL the Grey Wardens could die without the knowledge being lost, even if it would take time before anybody managed to dig it up and a corps of archdemon-killing warriors developed*.

 

 

* Actually, that raises a good question: Is a tainted person needed to strike the killing blow to prevent the archdemon's soul from jumping to a darkspawn and choosing the tainted person? What if it is merely a question of proximity? They probably haven't had any test cases where a non-tainted person struck the death blow while a Grey Warden was closer to the archdemon than any darkspawn. If it is mere proximity, that suggests all sorts of nasty but effective possibilities for archdemon killing that don't include poisoning your own warriors with darkspawn blood.

[Gamyu]

"Properly defeat the Blights" = not having a group that answers to no king and kingdom guard the most valuable secret in the world out of pure selfishness. If you tell people how to defeat the Blights, you will have a much easier time defeating them. Spread the knowledge of the ritual around, tell people how to kill Archdemons, and the Blights will last even less than the Fifth Blight did.

"Corrupt" = Um. Pretty much, like, summoning demons and ****. That's... that's pretty corrupt.

So since you said corruptWardens in Weisshaupt, there are Wardens in Weisshaupt summoning Demons?

Also, you want to tell the whole world that blood magic saved their sorry arses 5 times now, and only blood magic can save them again with the future Blights? Do you know how much Thedas hate blood magic? There a reason the Joining is a secret that the Wardens trying to keep Thedas from knowing, for example, Duncan killed Ser Jory. You can look at it the same way the Inner Circle of the Inquisition didnt announce that the Inquisitor isn't the Herald of Andraste after what they learn in the Fade. Why would they? It only lower morale and cause an uproar.

[iheartbob]

How many people, knowing that they have to ingest Darkspawn blood and that they might die in the process, would willingly undergo the joining? That is the reason the joining is kept a secret and why they would not reach out to other organizations.

 

You could potentially force people to undergo the joining as a punishment for various crimes, but then you may have a situation similar to the Night's Watch in ASOIAF/GOT where the organization is full of unloyal criminals and is no longer a reliable source of preventing blights.

 

The Wardens were also not a paradigm of virtue in Origins either, not if you played the DLC with Sophia Dryden and Avernus. They have always been up front about resorting to whatever means necessary to stopping blights. And like any organization, there has always been corruption.

 

I kept them around in my first play through for role playing reasons (there's a place for everyone in the inquisition, and an opportunity for redemption.) My current character will be less forgiving and exile them. Whether or not this will have a major affect on any future games remains to be seen. And just as we can exile them, I'm sure we can call them back from exile if necessary.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

How many people, knowing that they have to ingest Darkspawn blood and that they might die in the process, would willingly undergo the joining? That is the reason the joining is kept a secret and why they would not reach out to other organizations.

 

You could potentially force people to undergo the joining as a punishment for various crimes, but then you may have a situation similar to the Night's Watch in ASOIAF/GOT where the organization is full of unloyal criminals and is no longer a reliable source of preventing blights.

1) Volunteers. In case of a blight, you would have lots of volunteers. The Grey Wardens explanation for why they don't tell doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If your back is to the wall and you are fighting a losing war that is existential with defeat meaning the loss of all you hold dear, you'll have people queuing up to volunteer even knowing it almost certainly means their deaths, if it has a chance of saving their families and loved ones. If the fight isn't that desperate yet, promise status, honour, and good pay to volunteers, and money to the dependents of those that volunteer but fail the joining, and you'll have people doing it to improve the lives of their families or for personal advancement. In both cases, honour their sacrifices.

 

2) Forcing people. This option is the same as what is already in use by the Grey Wardens. That's what the right of conscription is all about. The Grey Wardens is not a volunteer organization. They'll take volunteers, and when they need the numbers, they conscript from all classes of society - or, more realistically, those where they face the least political backlash. The major difference with the Grey Wardens here is that if the state did it, it would be done with the full power of the state behind it.

 

I really don't see how a state combining a volunteer and conscription program while being open about what it was doing could be any worse at mustering a sufficient number of trained anti-blight warriors than what the Grey Wardens are doing - and they'd be able to ramp up the numbers of trained personnel much faster in case of an actual blight.

[o Ventus]

Invite them back from exile?

 

And if it looks like all the Wardens are going to be gone for good at some time, how about imprisoning the last ones before it is too late, interrograting them until they spill the beans on how to kill archdemons? (Or ask them without interrogation, if you think that'll do you any good).

 

After all, let's look at what the rulers of Thedas know:

1. If they read the old historical reports, they know that archdemons can survive being, and that the Grey Wardens are nevertheless able to somehow kill archdemons. This is the single thing that the Grey Wardens do, that is not easily replicated by normal armies, and it is the primary reason why they are important.
2. Some Grey Wardens are mages, some not, so magical ability does not seem to be important to the job of the Grey Warden.
3. The Grey Wardens are people of all races, so race doesn't seem to be important.
4. The Grey Wardens are recruited or conscripted from all layers of society. There is no apparent commonality between which become Grey Wardens and which do not.
5. Everything points to the Grey Wardens having some institutional knowledge, which is the key to killing archdemons, be it knowledge of training, of specific magic to use, of access to certain magic items, rather than the people who become or are Grey Wardens being important.
6. The Grey Wardens do not share such knowledge, but, if they did, there is no reason to believe a priori that one would not be able to replicate their work. After all, the Grey Wardens do it by drawing recruits from the same pool of people that the rulers do.

In fact, it seems downright irresponsible if none of the rulers of Thedas in the past have done what is necessary to learn the Grey Wardens knowledge, whether it be by infiltrating the organization or by torture. Likewise, it seems pretty unlikely that no Grey Warden has chosen to break ranks and spill the beans. Heck, the Grey Wardens might even officially have told some governments under an agreement that it would be kept secret until a time of need, letting the Grey Wardens do what is necessary without the governments having to dirty their hands, which would be much more responsible than what we are supposed to believe happened.

 

The more I think of it, the less likely it seems that the Grey Wardens have managed to keep such a vital secret for hundreds of years. One way or the other, it seems much more likely that at least some of the present-day rulers have access to that knowledge in their records, in which case ALL the Grey Wardens could die without the knowledge being lost, even if it would take time before anybody managed to dig it up and a corps of archdemon-killing warriors developed*.

 

 

* Actually, that raises a good question: Is a tainted person needed to strike the killing blow to prevent the archdemon's soul from jumping to a darkspawn and choosing the tainted person? What if it is merely a question of proximity? They probably haven't had any test cases where a non-tainted person struck the death blow while a Grey Warden was closer to the archdemon than any darkspawn. If it is mere proximity, that suggests all sorts of nasty but effective possibilities for archdemon killing that don't include poisoning your own warriors with darkspawn blood.

If you just invite them back, then exiling them is incredibly pointless. Also, Duncan mentions in DAO that the Joining is a secret because it's a highly volatile process that would scare the sh*t out of people if they learned about it. Seeing Jory freak out after Daveth succumbs to the darkspawn blood. Imagine that, but on a nation-wide scale. Not to mention that becoming a Warden effectively cuts your lifespan in half because of the Calling. 

 

It's always been proximity. In DAO, they say that the Archdemon's soul seeks out the nearest Blight-infected person or thing and inhabits it, be it a Warden or darkspawn. Having the Warden land the killing blow is the most effective course of action BECAUSE of proximity. In what feasible scenario would an Archdemon be fighting without darkspawn at its side?

[KaiserShep]

How many people, knowing that they have to ingest Darkspawn blood and that they might die in the process, would willingly undergo the joining? That is the reason the joining is kept a secret and why they would not reach out to other organizations.

 

You could potentially force people to undergo the joining as a punishment for various crimes, but then you may have a situation similar to the Night's Watch in ASOIAF/GOT where the organization is full of unloyal criminals and is no longer a reliable source of preventing blights.

 

I would bet good sovereigns that the entire Legion of the Dead would undergo the Joining if given the chance, since they've already come to terms with their mode of existence.

 

Anyway, the Wardens already do force people to join anyway, since they are more than willing to exploit some calamity to make yet another recruit, like when Duncan decides that the best to conscript the human noble is when his/her father is lying on the floor bleeding to death, and his/her mother is about to join him.

[TruffleMeister]

Yea, I never saw this as a stressful decision. The Wardens have been exiled before, from Fereldan for example, and we all know how that turned out (nice job Loghain) Plus it wasn't the whole orders fault. It was just a splinter cell of mind-controlled mages. Why blame everyone at Adamant, especially the ones that fought by the Inquisition's side for something someone else did. That's like if a splinter group of Inquisition soldiers started summoning demons, should the whole of the Inquisition be blamed. This is one of the only decisions where I could care less about the approval of my companions. I didn't replay Origins 12 times just to have my order tossed around like scrubs, the Warden-Commander doesn't play that :/

[hexediter]

People who say "only other option" or "no alternatives" often overlook the obvious, so let me state at least one other option.

 

3b. They decide to write letters to the heads of state of Thedas, the Chantry, and anybody else who might listen, telling them how to end blights. They might also want to auction off any remaining archdemon blood or put it in a blood bank, to save future rulers the trouble of acquiring this first.* Sure, this would significantly weaken the Grey Wardens as an organization, probably making it lose most support and rendering it obsolete in short order, but they are doing this for the sake of the world, right?

1. Get fresh darkspawn blood
2. Drink mix of darkspawn blood, preserved archdemon blood, and lyrium (recipe helpfully supplied in the letter together with any important details of the joining ritual)
3. Have a survivor of 2) present for the killing blow on an archdemon.

Tadaa!

 

Future blights might not have a trained body of anti-blight warriors present at the outset, but with every major power knowing what to do in case of a blight and the bulk of the fighting in all blights being done by regular warriors anyhow (with the last one only used a handful of Grey Wardens after Ostagar as the extreme example), it seems unlikely in the extreme that the knowledge would be lost.

 

The next blight would probably last longer than the 5th, where the untrained Warden, who became hero of Ferelden, so fortuitously went around Thedas solving everybody's problems and compelling them to join by ancient treaties in next to no time, but then, the 5th blight was an aberration in that respect.

 

All other blights lasted years, in some cases decades, which is more than enough time to prepare your own corps of Archdemon killers when faced with a blight.

 

Grey Wardens or not, blights would be checked in time - and moreover, there wouldn't be a small group of people as the point-failure for checking blights.

 

 

* Just think of how much Archdemon blood was likely wasted at the end of the fifth blight, because nobody outside the Grey Wardens knew how valuable saving it would be.

 

Okay, so let's say they do this letter writing.  Afterward the Grey Wardens will all have just died, how are you going to recruit to replace them?  Who wants to be a grey warden (or whatever you want to call this group of people in the future) when the last group all just mysteriously vanished from the face of Thedas?  What if the truth is learned?  I mean the wardens already keep secret most of the effects, but how do you hide this?  Also the wardens are trusting governments to act in the best intrest of possibly other governments (nothing could go wrong here like say, letting the blight destroy your enemy just cause you can right?).  The Chantry is in shambles, the Inquisition is still in it's infancy but I suppose they could make that gamble.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

If you just invite them back, then exiling them is incredibly pointless. Also, Duncan mentions in DAO that the Joining is a secret because it's a highly volatile process that would scare the sh*t out of people if they learned about it. Seeing Jory freak out after Daveth succumbs to the darkspawn blood. Imagine that, but on a nation-wide scale. Not to mention that becoming a Warden effectively cuts your lifespan in half because of the Calling.

With regards to exile, you are missing the point.

 

Exile has never been irreversible. It has commonly been used as a way of solving a problem with people that does not include killing or imprisoning those involved, a banishment that lasts for as long or as short as it takes for the situation to change such that it would be preferable for the state for the exiles to return. (And sometimes that is forever, but the option of rescinding exile is always there so long as the exiles live.)

 

In the case of DA:I, it should be obvious that exile is a reasonable choice. To the best of the Inquisition's knowledge the threat the world is currently facing is Corypheus and his machinations, there is currently no blight, and the Wardens in Orlais are currently bereft of leadership and may present a security risk depending on whether Corypheus hold over them is entirely gone and/or whether he might be able to reestablish his hold. They are good fighters, but do you want to take the risk? If you do not, then exiling them from Orlais for at least the duration of the fight against Corypheus makes excellent sense, as it removes them from the equation for the both sides while preserving the capabilities they have.

 

As for Duncan and poor Jory, Duncan's reasons in DA:O don't wash. They make for decent fantasy, but poor politics. If you keep it secret from people that join a fighting organization will probably get them killed in camp by their superiors, by being forced to drink poison as a necessary initiation ritual, then don't be surprised if some of your recruits freak out when they discover the truth - especially those who are volunteers rather than conscripts, and justifiably think they have been misled.

 

If, on the other hand, you aren't some secretive organization operating in the world of fantasy politics, but try to think in terms of the powers of a medieval state (as Dragon Age occasionally tries to delve into), you have a completely different situation. I have given examples of this in post #314.

[KaiserShep]

It does make me wonder: What if Jory was simply the better swordsman? Being a Warden doesn't automatically make you a better combatant. Duncan could have easily been killed by an experienced knight who just didn't want to drink blightade. It would've been pretty funny for Jory to strike Duncan down and disappear like a thief in the night.

[Vilegrim]

Because a highly trained and fanatical army with no morals is useful

[hexediter]

I didn't miss a thing, and the surviving Wardens evidently didn't either. They knew they were manipulated and in the wrong, and if you choose to exile them, they don't take up arms to fight that "injustice", they leave. Evidently, they're wiser than some people give them credit for.

But let's look at the glaring flaw in their plan, shall we: They're going to stop the Blights by drastically reducing their numbers to replace them with Demons. Hey, they don't need food, probably can't be corrupted, but they also can't slay an archdemon, at least not permanently. I know, "No problem Rob, they still have an army of mages that can", which assumes that said army lives to get to the Old Gods. One Horde 1/2 the size as what was at Ostagar, and their brilliant plan means that they're all dead, with no Wardens in the South should a Blight occur. Being exiled, they can return to fight the Archdemon, but there's really no coming back from death by stupidity to do it. I'd also like to point out that romanticism aside, the only reason we need Wardens to end a Blight is because they're the only ones that can permanently kill an Archdemon. Sure, they make great shock troops against a horde, but since we haven't seen a horde, and we have no Archdemon, we have no Blight. At this stage, they're a luxury, and a risky one, metagaming excluded.

 

You're assuming knolwedge that they don't have though, while we know the calling is false they do not.  When you say their plan leaves no wardens in the south should a blight occur and they fail you forget that they will all be dead if they do nothing as far as they know, so that is what will happen either way.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

Okay, so let's say they do this letter writing.  Afterward the Grey Wardens will all have just died, how are you going to recruit to replace them?  Who wants to be a grey warden (or whatever you want to call this group of people in the future) when the last group all just mysteriously vanished from the face of Thedas?  What if the truth is learned?  I mean the wardens already keep secret most of the effects, but how do you hide this?  Also the wardens are trusting governments to act in the best intrest of possibly other governments (nothing could go wrong here like say, letting the blight destroy your enemy just cause you can right?).  The Chantry is in shambles, the Inquisition is still in it's infancy but I suppose they could make that gamble.

You are assuming that the governments of the world would commit the same mistake of that the Wardens do.

 

As one alternative, see my answers in post #314 with regards to how a government could approach this issue.

 

There are other approaches - and I bet Tevinter could come up with one we'd all disapprove of - but the one I've written is one that relies heavily on real-life reasons for people ending up choosing to do nearly suicidal things despite full knowledge of the likely consequences.

 

As for governments letting a blight destroy their enemies just because they can this is no different from what is already the case. The written history from the previous blights makes clear that countries that are not directly affected not aiding those that are for political reasons is quite common, happily leaving fighting the blight to people from the affected countries and their allies.

[hexediter]

You are assuming that the governments of the world would commit the same mistake of that the Wardens do.

 

As one alternative, see my answers in post #314 with regards to how a government could approach this issue.

 

There are other approaches - and I bet Tevinter could come up with one we'd all disapprove of - but the one I've written is one that relies heavily on real-life reasons for people ending up choosing to do nearly suicidal things despite full knowledge of the likely consequences.

 

As for governments letting a blight destroy their enemies just because they can this is no different from what is already the case. The written history from the previous blights makes clear that countries that are not directly affected not aiding those that are for political reasons is quite common, happily leaving fighting the blight to people from the affected countries and their allies.

 

Problems I see here, you don't know if this mass calling issue is still going to be a problem for anyone who survives the joining in the future and you're also leaving the blight unchecked untill it is big enough to become a problem that causes enough people to say ok I guess we should try this blood now which seems inherently risky at best.

 

In regards to the history of past blights you're changing the balance of power from that country is not lending aide to that country to that country is the only one that can stop the blight and is going to watch you be destroyed because it can.  It is not all together different but it is not an equivilance.

[Pi2r Epsilon]

Problems I see here, you don't know if this mass calling issue is still going to be a problem for anyone who survives the joining in the future and you're also leaving the blight unchecked untill it is big enough to become a problem that causes enough people to say ok I guess we should try this blood now which seems inherently risky at best.

 

In regards to the history of past blights you're changing the balance of power from that country is not lending aide to that country to that country is the only one that can stop the blight and is going to watch you be destroyed because it can.  It is not all together different but it is not an equivilance.

1) If the mass calling issue is still going to be a problem in the future, that's only a problem if people in the future don't know how to deal with blights. It is only a problem for the Wardens in the here and now because they think that they might be the last Grey Wardens due to this. Whether they think that the mass calling is some curious aspect of a new blight starting or not, they would improve the chances of the world dealing with the blight by telling people how to stop it and not rushing headfirst into a half-brained scheme to solve everything before it is too late for them personally.

 

2) Blights are always going unchecked until the governments get their acts together, however many calamities happen before that. Even in the shortest Blight in history, the 5th blight, this was the case. Additionally, as the fifth blight showed, there is no significant time between when a person becomes a warden and when he's infected enough to kill an archdemon by dying, so with knowledge and access to archdemon blood (always a requirement, regardless of whether it is Grey Wardens, governments, or others that create new archdemon killer candidates), there isn't a long time between a government deciding to act and it having people capable of killing an archdemon. (Getting an archdemon into position to be killed is always going to be a problem, regardless of which group is going to do the killing.)

 

3) No, I have not. I don't know where you get this "the country that is the only one that can start the blight" from. I didn't write anything like that. I made it explicit in my 3b. solution that EVERYBODY were to be told. There isn't a single country with some secret knowledge. This is something that all countries and important organizations are informed of, and knowledge that they can all, if they choose to do so, use to prepare the public for what is required to stop blights. They could also choose to suppress it, if they wanted to commit the same mistake as the Wardens, of course, thought it would take an enormous amount of effort and an unthinkable political situation for everybody from the Tevinter to the city states, the kingdoms, Ozammar, the Dalish, the Qunari, and the two Chantrys to choose to suppress that information so hard that it wasn't easily accessible to them in case of a blight.