1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Melca36]

I don't exile them because Wardens are needed and given whats been said...it looks like the Wardens are going to be at war with the ones ones in Weisshaupt.   Theres something going on with them.

[YCBself]

I don't exile them because Wardens are needed and given whats been said...it looks like the Wardens are going to be at war with the ones ones in Weisshaupt.   Theres something going on with them.

 

Well we've known Weisshaupt is full of @$$hole since Origins. Lording over their territories and generally being jerks etc... Given the new ideas of the southern Wardens (or just the seeming retreat back to base of all Wardens with the exile option) I'd guess the big bosses are gearing up for a major shift in how the Order operates.

 

Maybe they're not willing to be quite so passive inbetween Blights anymore. And not in a good way.

[Patchwork]

Because by saving either the mages or the templars, keeping Orlais stable and ruining his plans for a demon army the next logical step is for Cory to use darkspawn. 

 

He doesn't, we know he doesn't but to me it makes sense and there's darkspawn activity throughout the game which made me expect another Amaranthine situation. 

[Melca36]

Well we've known Weisshaupt is full of @$$hole since Origins. Lording over their territories and generally being jerks etc... Given the new ideas of the southern Wardens (or just the seeming retreat back to base of all Wardens with the exile option) I'd guess the big bosses are gearing up for a major shift in how the Order operates.

 

Maybe they're not willing to be quite so passive inbetween Blights anymore. And not in a good way.

 

I think the First Warden in Weisshaupt is actually the first warden from the first blight. He's like Avernus and has prolonged his life.  I think the Wardens in Weisshaupt are trapped in the past and hate change. I think the Southern Wardens will end up in total control eventually.

[Elite1111111111]

Also I just thought of, people arguing they did a horribly terrible unspeakable thing - the only people it really hurt were the Wardens. Sure, if we hadn't crushed the 'demon army' thing the world would have been conquered, but by the time the whole thing is well and done, all that happened was the Wardens destroying themselves from within. Given people are saying they've done worse things, exiling them based on just this moment doesn't hold as much stock.

It boils down to a ridiculously misguided attempt to do good that really only hurt themselves.

[Seracen]

I will always keep the Wardens in my subsequent plays of this game.

 

1) the Warden Civil War happens regardless, but at least the Inquisition-sided faction have a positive presence in the world before it happens

 

2) they are no less susceptible to control than anyone else (paraphrasing the side quest with Cole and the amulet)...it's just a lower degree of effort

 

3) #2 is even less of a problem if you chose Templars over Mages, as you have a more solid safeguard against turned ones, just keep the Wardens away from Corypheus before you kill his dragon

 

4) that whole business with Blackwall and the treaties is a non-issue if you argue that the Wardens all joined the Inquisition (even though this doesn't matter beyond flavor text)

 

5) speaking of the War Table, you can save the Wardens from being wiped out if you make the right choices

 

My only downside was all the negative approval points, but whatever.  Anyhoo, those are my reasons, I can see ample argument about why you wouldn't want them around and exposed.  Knowing how it all ends though, I stick with keeping them around.  Besides, people need to learn to respect the force responsible for combating the Blight, for the next time it inevitably arises.

[Lord of Mu]

I don't exile them because Wardens are needed and given whats been said...it looks like the Wardens are going to be at war with the ones ones in Weisshaupt.   Theres something going on with them.

 

I also didn't exile the Wardens. It's unlikely that a blight will break out but wardens are still needed to fight darkspawn. I also don't know how far the corruption from Cory spread. It's entirely possible that the wardens in Weisshaupt have been made slaves to remaining Venatori cells.

Though I really feel like the Inquisition has become the highest order of power to provide oversight to the seekers, mages, templars and wardens. One has to wonder, who watches the watchers?

[KaiserShep]

Besides, people need to learn to respect the force responsible for combating the Blight, for the next time it inevitably arises.

I guess the trouble with the Wardens for me is that I can only really base any justification for their continued presence in Inquisition on some meta-knowledge. Playing a Warden in the first game gave you insight into the order that no other protagonist in the series is privy to, so as far as Joe Turnip is concerned, Wardens are just elite darkspawn fighters that became legend through the ages, but that alone isn't very compelling for anyone who doesn't easily buy into age old legends, like Loghain, for instance.

[Kuvira]

I kept them, because they have a pretty unique skillset, but seem like idiots. I mean, they saw Fear blinking in through from the rift and were like "yea, brah, that totally looks like something we can handle." I'm actually replaying it now, and will leave Hawke in the fade, just because Stroud (in my game) seems like the only one with any sense. 

 

"Common folk" freaking hate the wardens though. Every time I run around eavesdropping on people, common folk rage about how Wardens are thugs in sheep's clothing. The only time I've heard them defended was from some Orlesian dude, and color-coordination on his mask was terrible. So his opinion was basically invalid.

[spyroware]

In my mage playthrough I felt it impossible to exile the Wardens and would pretty much rage on everyone saying that they're unstable or at risk of corruption etc. Mages are always at risk of possession, a moment of weakness and that's it. Exiling them would be hypocritical. If anything I could perfectly relate to that baggage of internal struggle, distrust, and being remembered only when someone needs a special weapon in a war they cant otherwise win.

 

In my dalish rogue playthrough I was more lukewarm to them but still I didn't think they were at fault. They were an unwilling puppet of my worst enemy so giving them a chance to help and set things right felt only natural. I mean the game feels like it's going out of its way to let you give a second chance to truly bad people. The Warden bruhaha is pretty tame compared to that.

 

I can never play as bad, je n'ai care pas people anyway so.

[Sommo James]

Well, to fight the next Blight seems a pretty compelling reason. 

 

This. Also creating a deamon army to kill old gods and prevent future blight would have actually been a good idea, was not for Corryphious around capable of mind controlling the wardens.

[Virgulec]

I didn't exile them. I don't really feel they are needed, but I accepted the Avvar guy as an Ally didn't hear or see anything from him after that, but from them I do. Also, my thoughts were that the Inquisition should not follow along the path of the previous one in the handling of sensitive matters. The inquisition became an institution of power and thus our actions carry a lot of weight. Pardoning them was a step in another direction, well, I feel so.

[ADelusiveMan]

Power. Absorbed the Templars, absorbed the Wardens. Inqusition will take it all. And then the Envy demon's little vision thingy will become reality. (Insert evil laugh here.)

 

 

But for real though, there is no point in exiling the Wardens.  Origins proved that was a incredibly bad idea.

[robertthebard]

Power. Absorbed the Templars, absorbed the Wardens. Inqusition will take it all. And then the Envy demon's little vision thingy will become reality. (Insert evil laugh here.)
 
 
But for real though, there is no point in exiling the Wardens.  Origins proved that was a incredibly bad idea.

Why, did the Archdemon win? I tried my ass off to get that result on my CE, and couldn't, what did I do wrong? You see, you have the timeline sort of jacked up. The Wardens were no longer exiled during the 5th Blight, Cailan's father had lifted that exile prior to the beginning of the game. There was no Archdemon on the field in Ostagar. The battle was lost when Loghain quit the field. This used to be speculation, but since Loghain will admit to betraying the Wardens at Adamant Fortress, it's pretty much confirmed now. That's the reason it's you and Alistair, not due to the exile. All the Wardens in Ferelden died at Ostagar. Which pretty much goes to show that, until you actually get to the Archdemon, Wardens are glorified shock troops.

[X Equestris]

Why, did the Archdemon win? I tried my ass off to get that result on my CE, and couldn't, what did I do wrong? You see, you have the timeline sort of jacked up. The Wardens were no longer exiled during the 5th Blight, Cailan's father had lifted that exile prior to the beginning of the game. There was no Archdemon on the field in Ostagar. The battle was lost when Loghain quit the field. This used to be speculation, but since Loghain will admit to betraying the Wardens at Adamant Fortress, it's pretty much confirmed now. That's the reason it's you and Alistair, not due to the exile. All the Wardens in Ferelden died at Ostagar. Which pretty much goes to show that, until you actually get to the Archdemon, Wardens are glorified shock troops.

The Wardens were significantly weaker in Ferelden because they had only recently returned from exile. Then, after Ostagar, Loghain refuses to let the Orlesian Wardens in. So if Riordan had missed his jump during the Battle of Denerim, Ferelden would have fallen to the darkspawn. If they had never been exiled in the first place, the Ferelden chapter might have been much stronger than it was.

[ThreeF]

Admittedly I did not liked the line the Inquisitor say when allying with Wardens but.... you make allies (or conscript) out of Mages / Templars,  how the Wardens are any different? Mages and Templars screw up and get a second chance, but Wardens don't? 

[phaonica]

I'm not sure how keeping the Wardens (who screwed up) around is so different from keeping around the mages (who screwed up) or the templars (who screwed up).

[Liec]

Why would you exile the Wardens?

Make them join and the Inquisition will have power not only over the Breach but will also be able to stop Blights if one comes. Everyone will bow down at your feet even harder, muahaha.

Besides, at that point in the story you don't know for sure what Cory's dragon is exactly, and the Quizzie would feel really silly if only a Grey Warden could kill it and he exiled them all.

[ADelusiveMan]

Why, did the Archdemon win? I tried my ass off to get that result on my CE, and couldn't, what did I do wrong? You see, you have the timeline sort of jacked up. The Wardens were no longer exiled during the 5th Blight, Cailan's father had lifted that exile prior to the beginning of the game. There was no Archdemon on the field in Ostagar. The battle was lost when Loghain quit the field. This used to be speculation, but since Loghain will admit to betraying the Wardens at Adamant Fortress, it's pretty much confirmed now. That's the reason it's you and Alistair, not due to the exile. All the Wardens in Ferelden died at Ostagar. Which pretty much goes to show that, until you actually get to the Archdemon, Wardens are glorified shock troops.

 

Not really. I know the timeline. But Loghain framed the Wardens for killing Cailan, prevented any other Wardens from entering Ferelden during the Blight, and named Alistair, the Hero of Ferelden, and any other Warden enemies of Ferelden, and even locked up Riordan in Denerim. If I remember correctly, he even went so far as to suggest that Wardens may in fact be working with the Darkspawn.  The point is, exiling the Wardens from ANYWHERE is a bad idea, especially considering the main villain in Inquisition is a Darkspawn.  If other wardens had been allowed to enter from Orlais and other places, a lot of the running about in Origins would not have been necessary. 

[Precursor Meta]

You know, when I made the choice to keep the wardens, I'm surprised all of my party disagreed with me (Cassandra, Vivienne, and Sera).

I choose to keep them because I thought If a blight comes we'll need wardens. It's amazing how fast they forget about the warden's sacrifice.

[Ryzaki]

Becuase darkspawn apparently.

 

I exile them because idiots I just wish you could say it was temporary til Cory was defeated. Last thing I need is him regaining control of them.

[ADelusiveMan]

It's amazing how fast they forget about the warden's sacrifice.

 

This seems to happen quite often, in Thedas and in this thread.

[robertthebard]

The Wardens were significantly weaker in Ferelden because they had only recently returned from exile. Then, after Ostagar, Loghain refuses to let the Orlesian Wardens in. So if Riordan had missed his jump during the Battle of Denerim, Ferelden would have fallen to the darkspawn. If they had never been exiled in the first place, the Ferelden chapter might have been much stronger than it was.

Um, not really? They didn't die because they were exiled, they died because they were betrayed. People are all over complaining about not seeing resources to throw at Cory, comparing them to the resources at Ostagar, and yet, other than Loghain's forces, which never actually engaged the darkspawn, nobody survived. Did you think they'd have 10s of thousands of Wardens to throw at the darkspawn? I'm betting that there aren't that many Wardens anywhere, due to the way they are recruited, and the Joining.

[robertthebard]

This seems to happen quite often, in Thedas and in this thread.

Really? I took the US ending as my canon. How many saves do you have for the Keep where your Warden is actually dead, and not in the Eluvian with Morrigan? I completely understand the Warden's sacrifice, do you?

However, that's really not relevant to the situation is it? Are we fighting back a Blight in this game? Since metaknowledge is popular here, is Cory's dragon actually an Archdemon? No? So what, exactly, do we need the Wardens for? More shock troops? Isn't there a thread floating around that indicates that those are useless in the grand scheme of things? So the only reason, from a metagame standpoint to keep the Wardens around is romanticism. "But, the HoF is a Warden, we have to keep them". That's the only reason, outside of the game, to keep them. In context with the game, an Inquisitor can, rightly, keep them, or exile them, depending on the RP value of the choice according to the Inquisitor of the moment. All the subjective reasons, and hyperbole aside, there is no right or wrong answer.

[TheodoricFriede]

Im sorry, but the wardens are only useful so long as their secrets remain their secrets.

 

If people ever found that the thing that REALLY matters is the sacrificial lamb to kill the archdemon, how relevant would the grey wardens actually be?