1570 réponses à ce sujet

[High Effects]

"All that we were before, now we are...the inquisition" that is self explanatory, you don't always deny the past but to move forward is to recognise each and everyone's skill set and ability to combat the enemies of the inquisition. Grey wardens are a gigantic part of dragon age, dragon age started with the wardens, to exile/kill them means the inquisition have already pre-determined humanities fate to the blights due to come instead of making changes for the better good and restoring order, they would have set in motion chaos!

[robertthebard]

"All that we were before, now we are...the inquisition" that is self explanatory, you don't always deny the past but to move forward is to recognise each and everyone's skill set and ability to combat the enemies of the inquisition. Grey wardens are a gigantic part of dragon age, dragon age started with the wardens, to exile/kill them means the inquisition have already pre-determined humanities fate to the blights due to come instead of making changes for the better good and restoring order, they would have set in motion chaos!

How is that exactly? The Wardens everywhere else but southern Thedas remain intact, unless you're thinking we put them all on a spaceship and launched them somewhere else?

[King Cousland]

This may be true but it can't be used as an excuse to allow the Wardens to run willy nilly over Thedas, doing whatever they please. The Wardens may be the only ones who can end Blights by killing Archdemons but the threat exists for everyone. To elavate themselves over everyone else, to say "We will choose whether or not to do something stupidly dangerous to fight the Darkspawn, the rest of you don't get a vote" flies entirely in the face of the idea that they're genuine protectors of the people. At the very least it shows how little they actually respect their supposed wards.

 

No one gets to remain a hero above reproach forever; it's a privilege that needs to be constantly earned. In this case the southern Wardens lost that privilege.

 

For the record, I did recruit the Wardens. A little oversight and learning how to play nice with the other factions in the Inquisition did them some good, as the epilogue showed.

 

To some extent, I agree, but we're not arguing about whether they should be a law unto themselves, we're arguing about whether they should be exiled or not. 

 

Until all the Old Gods are verified as being dead or the darkspawn are exterminated, I can't envision any circumstances under which they should be. 

[In Exile]

Seriously, is there any sensible stance in favor of letting them stay? I know we all love them as a whole, but the branch we deal with in Inquisition was faced with trouble and defaulted to USE BLOOD MAGIC TO SUMMON A DEMON ARMY. If it were any other faction, we'd put every one of them to the sword, but nostalgia for Origins means that almost everyone let them go with a promise to not do it again. Ridiculous!

Meat shields you can sent do die on some forsaken suicide run. Which they can basically due via the war table. The game is knowing how to use them to die.

[In Exile]

Indeed they did...
I feel like DA:O showed them as hero's and it was inspiring. I always will remember Ali's speech at the end of Origins, "But most of all, today we show the Grey Wardens that we remember and honor their sacrifice! For Ferelden! FOR THE GREY WARDENS!"

Each and every faction in Thedas is deplorable and we can't simply exile them all.

They were absolutely not heroes in DAO. They had awesome propaganda but all we see is comical incompetence. Everything that goes wrong in DAO can be traced to Duncan being an idiot and the Wardens obsession with secrecy and lies.

[Balek-Vriege]

I exiled the Wardens even though I went in with the intent of not doing so.

 

The fact is I couldn't risk the integrity of the Inquisition's forces/goals to be compromised by Grey Wardens being mind controlled, especially after sacrificing their leadership in the south (Stroud).  Why would my Inquisitor keep an army of Grey Wardens integrated into her forces, that could have their loyalties switched in an instant through the false calling/mind control?  Like Varric said to parapherase: "Funny how these things work out.  A Darkspawn Magister threatens the world and the last thing you want around are Grey Wardens."

 

Not only does Corypheus have the power to mind control him, but each one is in fact a resurrection device.  Although events turn out more or less the same either way, what if it had come to a major final battle and you had Corypheus being slain multiple times only to reappear behind friendly lines and possessing your Grey Warden forces, causing chaos and leading to loads of fatalities in your ranks?

 

Remember that our Inquisitors, like most of Thedas, know very little to really nothing about the inner workings of the Grey Warden organization.  We players are partly bias towards not exiling them because of the events and characters in DA:O (Metagaming).  However, even my Hero of Ferelden is a little on the dark side no matter how altruistic I played the character (let the Architect live, went full research in Warden's Keep DLC and was generally ok with unorthodox means of ending the blights).  There was no reason for my Inquisitor after Stroud's death to trust the remaining Grey Wardens in something they have no control over to begin with.  I would have a hard time not exiling them even if Stroud had lived.

 

By the time I got to the Arbor Wilds I felt vindicated by my decision, since it feels based on the codex entry and the dialogue after killing the few Wardens there, that you really minimized the damage Corypheus could do with them.  I wasn't too perturbed by the ending epilogue scene about the Wardens either.  It appears exile or no, the Wardens end up fighting one another leading to silence at Weisshaupt regardless.  It's just that not exiling them makes the conflict bigger, but less likely to wipe out the organization as a whole.

[tmp7704]

Not only does Corypheus have the power to mind control him, but each one is in fact a resurrection device.

Only the ones who are close to him the moment he dies. Thus, keeping them around allows you easier to keep the bulk of them away from him when that happens. While when they're wandering on their own nothing stops Corypheus from bolstering his ranks of resurrecting devices. Certainly, it won't be you.

[robertthebard]

Only the ones who are close to him the moment he dies. Thus, keeping them around allows you easier to keep the bulk of them away from him when that happens. While when they're wandering on their own nothing stops Corypheus from bolstering his ranks of resurrecting devices. Certainly, it won't be you.

Actually, in the War Room, Morrigan can question whether or not there is an effective range. No matter where you send them, even if you keep them, they may be too close. I would find it highly amusing to learn that we didn't actually prevent Cory from jumping at the end, but that he'd in fact jumped to Weisshaupt, and that's why things went silent.

[KotorEffect3]

Corypheus exploited a huge weakness in the Wardens since he can use their own taint against them.   Chances are if he can do it then any other darkspawn magisters that are still around can do it as well.  The architect was fooling around with Grey Warden blood trying to create his own twisted version of the joining.  The Wardens I believe are still needed if another blight starts up because they are the only ones that can kill an archdemon but at the same time they need to be monitored and watched so that their own connection to blight can't be used against them again.  I am thinking of maybe creating a group or order to monitor them the way Templars monitor mages.

[tmp7704]

Actually, in the War Room, Morrigan can question whether or not there is an effective range. No matter where you send them, even if you keep them, they may be too close.

Well, Morrigan in DAI for whatever reasons doesn't appear to be very knowledgeable despite her own claims -- she gets lot of stuff quite wrong.

Even if she's right, then having some of the potential respawn points where you can watch them seems like a better deal than having them all wandering gods know where. This way at least you have some chance of learning quickly that he did indeed respawn over a large distance *and* you know where he is.

[hexediter]

To all the "if only the wardens were open about why they are needed people". 

 

If they say we are needed because the arch-demon cannot be killed without a warden people will ask why that is the case.  Then they have to reveal that in order to be a warden you have to complete a blood magic ritual they call the joining.  How well exactly do you think people will react to this?  Many people believe blood magic is never justified no matter what (I'm looking at you Hawke!).  Well guess what, if you're choices are world gets devoured by the blight or blood magic only a fool chooses to be destroyed out of fear of the latter, but without a blight around people are going to freak out.

[ironhorse384]

nostalgia

[CoM Solaufein]

They are a force for good who were mislead. Besides I would rather have them as an ally that I can watch over than an enemy.

[Kulyok]

I've finally came around and realized that yes, in the game I'm playing, we need to get rid of that organization as they are now.

 

Practically, what do we need? The recipe of the Joining potion, so that when the Archdemon rises, we get a few volunteers who deal the last blow. That's it. We need the darkspawn lore in the libraries, and we need it shared with the world. But no Rite of Conscription, no demon armies(definitely not), and no armies of Wardens in the peace time. It's about the same as templars. We need powerful guys who nullify magic and hunt killers who are well-versed in throwing big, big, big fireballs. We don't need them on a lyrium leash, we don't need all-powerful Seekers, and we don't need mage kids taken away from families and imprisoned. In my opinion, that is.

[zeypher]

"Properly defeat the Blights" = not having a group that answers to no king and kingdom guard the most valuable secret in the world out of pure selfishness. If you tell people how to defeat the Blights, you will have a much easier time defeating them. Spread the knowledge of the ritual around, tell people how to kill Archdemons, and the Blights will last even less than the Fifth Blight did. 

 

"Corrupt" = Um. Pretty much, like, summoning demons and ****. That's... that's pretty corrupt.

Actually for their so called last defenders if they really wanted to help, they should have told the dwarves how to do it. I mean those poor bastards need taint immunity for their legion of the dead. But no greywardens hoard this knowledge to themselves for power.

[Laughing_Man]

Actually for their so called last defenders if they really wanted to help, they should have told the dwarves how to do it. I mean those poor bastards need taint immunity for their legion of the dead. But no greywardens hoard this knowledge to themselves for power.

 

We know very little of the legion of the dead, and very little on the relationship between them & the Wardens.

In any case, It is possible that Dwarven kind are more resistant to the taint than the other races, and therefore are more likely to die from a sword than the taint itself.

I don't have a proof, but Ruck - the ghoul we met in the deep roads - was not quite changed all the way, despite the fact that he was tainted for years.

[Aaleel]

I didn't a reason not to use them.  Mages can be possessed by demons/turn to blood magic (which I've already seen), Templars can be turned crazy by red lyrium (which I've already seen), so how are the Wardens any less useful or dangerous.  That was pretty much my reasoning, in for a penny in for a pound.

[Monica21]

I've finally came around and realized that yes, in the game I'm playing, we need to get rid of that organization as they are now.

 

Practically, what do we need? The recipe of the Joining potion, so that when the Archdemon rises, we get a few volunteers who deal the last blow. That's it. We need the darkspawn lore in the libraries, and we need it shared with the world. But no Rite of Conscription, no demon armies(definitely not), and no armies of Wardens in the peace time. It's about the same as templars. We need powerful guys who nullify magic and hunt killers who are well-versed in throwing big, big, big fireballs. We don't need them on a lyrium leash, we don't need all-powerful Seekers, and we don't need mage kids taken away from families and imprisoned. In my opinion, that is.

 

But you're not getting rid of the organization as they are now. You're just packing them up and sending them to Weisshaupt where they will still exist, just not anywhere you might actually need them. From a meta-gaming perspective, I trust the First Warden about as far as I can throw him. From an in-game perspective, the Wardens are no worse off, or less of a threat, than the Templars or mages who have also proven themselves vulnerable to Cory's influence.

 

You're also getting rid of all the Wardens in southern Thedas, except your Warden presumably, if s/he is still alive. For all the "you just need that one Warden to kill an Archdemon," well, what's your plan if there's another Blight? Let's not forget that Riordan did die, which is why you, Alistair, or Loghain were forced to take the killing blow. I mean, what are you going to do? Stand at a safe distance and yell at a couple of armies to just wear it down until you can stab it in the head?

 

And what's your plan for getting the Joining recipe? The Wardens don't give you their cookbook before they leave for Weisshaupt. Darkspawn lore is not enough knowledge to kill an Archdemon. Your Warden had darkspawn lore before becoming a Warden; Alistair was a Warden for six months before you, and neither of you knew how to kill an Archdemon until a more senior member of the order told you how, and on the eve of battle no less. All you know is that Wardens have killed Archdemons. There is nothing in the lore that tells you how.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Seriously, is there any sensible stance in favor of letting them stay? I know we all love them as a whole, but the branch we deal with in Inquisition was faced with trouble and defaulted to USE BLOOD MAGIC TO SUMMON A DEMON ARMY. If it were any other faction, we'd put every one of them to the sword, but nostalgia for Origins means that almost everyone let them go with a promise to not do it again. Ridiculous!

Because it's a mistake to use 21st century western morals to judge a group of fictional people. I'm not sure what version of Thedas you've been traipsing around for the last three games, but doing (from our real life vantage point) horrible things seems pretty par for the course for the setting. 

Considering the resources that are expended on training, feeding, and housing such a group of experienced soldiers, you don't just throw all that away. You keep them under your thumb instead.

Having a bunch of super-powered warriors filled with resentment out of sight, out of mind, is not exactly the smartest thing a leader should be doing. 

[Balek-Vriege]

Like I said in my above post I think either way the Wardens end up going silent at Weisshaupt, it's just that having them join the Inquisition gives the southern faction a better leg to stand on until that event, to the point there's no question that the Wardens will survive whatever happens.  Exiling them does provoke the question by Morrigan if this is the end of the ancient organization.

 

But hey we have the Inquisitor now.  Archdemon pops up, send it into the fade.  Done.

 

Just have to fix that whole mortality thing of quizzy...

[brujajaja]

I exiled them. It's not the choice I would have made if my character had knowledge of the Wardens from DA:O and DA2, but I felt like from what we were shown of them in DA:I, especially finding out that it was Wardens who attempted to murder Justinia/the Inquisitor, paired with the threat that Corypheus could try to take control again, it made the most sense (from my character's perspective) to exile them. 

 

Plus, it seems to be a temporary ban, and are sending them back to Weisshupt to regroup. There are still plenty of solitary Wardens and Warden outposts in Southern Thedas, and it's possible after Corypheus is defeated for them to return. I ended up sacrificing Stroud instead of Hawke, also, so it isn't like they had any senior officers left in Orlais to guide them even if they had stayed. 

 

In my next playthrough I will probably keep them because I'll be playing a more military minded character. I agree that I think the Wardens got a bit side-swiped by the story in this game, and I was kind of hoping for different after all the hints that were dropped in DA2 as to what they were up to? I was also disappointed your Warden doesn't really get much of a cameo despite probably being a character with major insight into the situation. 

 

EDIT: Reviewing conversations between characters and apparently it is all through Thedas? Which is frustrating bc I originally thought (from the wording) that you'd only be banishing the Orlesian Wardens. So, I stand corrected there, sorry. 

[stonerbishop]

Thread is tldr. Here is my reasoning.
You aren't banishing the leaders and mages who did the bad stuff. You are banishing the warriors, the grunts, as it were.
To compare to a modern military (which I know they aren't really a military), the grunt doesn't really question orders. You don't know what the big heads are doing. But you trust them because you have to for an organization like that to work.
If the sergeant says your buddy is on a special assignment or something, you take their word for it. If you are suspicious and start having moral quandries, you keep your mouth shut and your head down because you don't have much opportunity to escape and you don't want their focus on you. When the IQ shows up, they have a chance to escape/follow their conscience. Many do.

So, I think k it's a pretty good representation of actual human behavior.

If you think, "well I wouldn't have done that". Maybe. Most will because you are trained to. That's why the training (military) is the way it is. It teaches you to be a follower. Follower is not a bad word. You can't have many leaders and if you don't have good followers, the organization will not work

Just my 2 coppers

[Fireheart]

EDIT: Reviewing conversations between characters and apparently it is all through Thedas? Which is frustrating bc I originally thought (from the wording) that you'd only be banishing the Orlesian Wardens. So, I stand corrected there, sorry. 

 

Where did you hear this? If they were banished from Thedas, where would they even go??

 

I let them stay. The game did tell you they might be vulnerable to Corypheus but I just didn't really care, mainly because I am biased from having played Origins, of course. But also, I just thought, well then, all I have to do is keep them away from Corypheus? I could still have them go around handling Fade demons, protecting citizens and such. Also, exiling them isn't bad either. I assumed it would be a temporary ban, but I also thought, why ban them when I could put them to good use? And people talk about what if there's another Blight soon and it starts in Orlais? Well by that time, the Wardens should be back since Coryfish is gone. Plus Blights happen centuries apart. No need to fret over it so much right now.

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

People sure are quick to throw the wardens under the bus when they don't think they need them anymore. Doesn't this always happen after a blight?