1570 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

For starters, if you got the Qunari alliance and exile the Wardens, Iron Bull mentions that ben-hassrath agents are killing any wardens that haven't left.

 

For real? Those mother****ers.

[robertthebard]

Well apparently you are kicking the Wardens out for a long time and discrediting them. For starters, if you got the Qunari alliance and exile the Wardens, Iron Bull mentions that ben-hassrath agents are killing any wardens that haven't left. If killing them for not leaving is okay with you, you don't get to complain if another blight occurs in Orlais or Ferelden. Second, if you exile them, the news story mentions how the Wardens tried to help Corypheus summon a demon army and that they are now hated while if you let them join the Inquisition, the news instead tries to hide this with words like "the wardens tried to find their own solutions to the crisis". In other words, exiling them means you destroy their reputation which doesn't bode well for the Order.

Surprisingly, I can't bring myself to care. So I'm not sugarcoating an organization that has, on more than one occasion that we know of, just from the games, agreed with the idea of sacrificing their members to summon demons. Now I've always saved the Chargers, but if I ever decided to take the Qunari instead, I'd have signed the order to hunt them down myself, if asked. Assuming I'd exiled them, I don't want potential Corypawns running around unaccounted for.

[Phoe77]

Maybe I misunderstood something, or maybe this has been covered elsewhere, but are the wardens really left particularly vulnerable to enslavement after you handle things at Adamant?  It seemed to me like the warden mages were made into thralls only by having the ritual they performed to bind the demons exploited.  If they're currently binding demons, I don't think they're much more of a liability than anyone else, unless they're around to fight Corypheus himself.  

 

I usually keep them around because an order of highly skilled warriors who aren't afraid to sacrifice would be helpful in combating Cory's forces.  They're no more vulnerable to red templars or regular demons than anyone else is.  

[MisterJB]

Who funds the Grey Wardens inbetween Blights?
Amaranthine is said to be the first instance of a Warden lording over nobles só, probably not taxes.
The First Warden may havê enough influence to demand money from the king of the Anderfels but that would mean the Anders would be paying for outposts present in other nations which makes it unlikely.

[In Exile]

Who funds the Grey Wardens inbetween Blights?
Amaranthine is said to be the first instance of a Warden lording over nobles só, probably not taxes.
The First Warden may havê enough influence to demand money from the king of the Anderfels but that would mean the Anders would be paying for outposts present in other nations which makes it unlikely.

My understanding was that the Wardens just took **** under their treaty rights.

[Andrew Lucas]

Because they are ****** Grey Wardens.

That's enough.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Surprisingly, I can't bring myself to care. So I'm not sugarcoating an organization that has, on more than one occasion that we know of, just from the games, agreed with the idea of sacrificing their members to summon demons. Now I've always saved the Chargers, but if I ever decided to take the Qunari instead, I'd have signed the order to hunt them down myself, if asked. Assuming I'd exiled them, I don't want potential Corypawns running around unaccounted for.

Still, if another blight starts to occur in southern Thedas, the Grey Wardens either won't be allowed or will be disliked greatly if they are allowed back in. Heck, part of the main plot was started because Loghain mistrusted the Wardens because they were exiled and that was centuries ago. If the Wardens remained in Ferelden back then, Loghain likely wouldn't have been as mistrustful of them. By exiling them, you are telling the rest of Thedas that the Grey Wardens tried to summon demons and helped Corypheus. Do you really think people will be as accepting of Wardens then? Why else would the news report if you allow the Wardens to stay try to hide what the Wardens did.

[Phoe77]

Do you really think people will be as accepting of Wardens then? Why else would the news report if you allow the Wardens to stay try to hide what the Wardens did.

 

Probably so that the Inquisitor's choice to keep them around was met with less backlash, I imagine.  Opinions on grey wardens already vary so widely without people knowing about their actions.  

 

Nevertheless, I do believe in allying with them instead of exiling them.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 For once, I agree with Solas.

 

 

There are people who are prisoners to the Wardens' trap-of-non-thinking: we end the Blights, you need us (now, excuse us while we go run amok)...

[Mocksie]

My first playthough, I let them stay for two reasons. One, I thought if they were vulnerable to corruption, it would be better to let them stay where the Inquisition could keep a watch on them. Even if they were exiled, we had no proof at the time that Cory wouldn't be able to control and manipulate them outside of Orlais. It seems better that they atone for what they did by helping the Inquisition and be where people could watch them for further signs of corruption. And two, they are the only ones who can stop the Blight and I would just feel shitty about exiling them. Sure, the Wardens do some shifty things to accomplish their goals, but they are still heroes. They give up their lives, families, everything to make the world a better place for everyone else. It seems like a poor thing to do to exile them, and then come running back to them and crying at their feet for help when the next Blight rolls around.

 

In my second playthough, I exiled them. However it was with the intention that exiling them would be best for their own safety, and once Cory was defeated, they would be allowed back. This was of course, after I saw Cory kill and then get reborn from a Grey Warden's body from my first playthrough. 

 

Ultimately, I think I prefer to let them stay though. Personal preference I guess.

[X Equestris]

Who funds the Grey Wardens inbetween Blights?
Amaranthine is said to be the first instance of a Warden lording over nobles só, probably not taxes.
The First Warden may havê enough influence to demand money from the king of the Anderfels but that would mean the Anders would be paying for outposts present in other nations which makes it unlikely.

Donations, perhaps.

[robertthebard]

Still, if another blight starts to occur in southern Thedas, the Grey Wardens either won't be allowed or will be disliked greatly if they are allowed back in. Heck, part of the main plot was started because Loghain mistrusted the Wardens because they were exiled and that was centuries ago. If the Wardens remained in Ferelden back then, Loghain likely wouldn't have been as mistrustful of them. By exiling them, you are telling the rest of Thedas that the Grey Wardens tried to summon demons and helped Corypheus. Do you really think people will be as accepting of Wardens then? Why else would the news report if you allow the Wardens to stay try to hide what the Wardens did.

They weren't just exiled for fun back then, and if an Inquisitor decides they want to, it's not done just for fun now. Back then, they were exiled for conspiring to overthrow a King, and then summoned demons in defense of their keep, rather than surrender. You see the issue there? They did "whatever was necessary", despite there not being a blight to contend with. How many times in the history of Thedas do you suppose this kind of thing has happened before? I know of twice in the Dragon Age alone. What about in the ages previous to that one? How many times has "by whatever means necessary" applied to other situations that didn't result in demon summoning, but may yet have been rather heinous. Public opinion of the Wardens already swings wildly both ways, and that can be seen by reading through this thread as well. Anyone who chooses to exile the Wardens isn't doing it for fun, they're doing it because they disagreed with the Warden's general policy being applied even when we're not combatting a Blight.

[RinuCZ]

Actually, my first reaction was "Hell, yeah, it looks like the most sane choice". But then Herald was talking with Leliana and shouted something like "Yeah, we need to warn as many people as possible what monsters they are" which took me by surprise. At the moment, I realized the choice was more about teaching them a lesson than preventing them from further harm. And I backtracked.

[Scofield]

I will Exile them all the time simply because im sick n tired of hearing about them

[wiccame]

They were exiled from Ferelden and we know how that turned out.

[Bigdoser]

For real? Those mother****ers.

Whaaaaat really this happens?

[Aimi]

Who funds the Grey Wardens inbetween Blights?
Amaranthine is said to be the first instance of a Warden lording over nobles só, probably not taxes.
The First Warden may havê enough influence to demand money from the king of the Anderfels but that would mean the Anders would be paying for outposts present in other nations which makes it unlikely.

I had a humongous argument with some people about this in a thread a few weeks back, in which I suggested that the means by which the Wardens supposedly sustain their organization between Blights would not plausibly meet their needs unless those needs were preposterously tiny. Since the Wardens are supposed to maintain a global fighting force in the neighborhood of 2,000 to 4,000 trained and drilled professional soldiers of high quality, including templars and mages with concomitant lyrium requirements, their needs cannot be considered to be "preposterously tiny". In fact, those are quite major commitments by European high medieval analogy. I especially drew attention to the very issue that you mention here, that Wardens supposedly do not control estates, which were in fact the primary revenue generators for similar organizations in European medieval history, the military orders. Warden possession of fortresses and keeps across Thedas multiplies rather than diminishes the financial strain on the Order.

The arguments against this claim of implausibility were...more forceful than thoughtful.

Nevertheless, the Wardens do exist, and apparently they get their money from somewhere. If they make up the difference by donations, they are rather more popular than the games appear to portray them, and if they make it up by requisition, they have rather more wide-ranging authority in times of non-Blight than the games appear to portray them as having.

[Precursor Meta]

I feel sorry for the wardens. They really have a thankless job. Even if the their plan to end the blights was a bit overboard, you can condemn them for the reason behind it. They just want peace for the rest of the world but instead in Inquisition, they are persecuted and looked down upon.

[Addai]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I tend towards exiling them for their own good. Between Corypheus and your own war table missions, you might wipe out the only ones left, and it wouldn't go well for them in Orlais if it got out that they helped kill the Divine.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I tend towards exiling them for their own good. Between Corypheus and your own war table missions, you might wipe out the only ones left, and it wouldn't go well for them in Orlais if it got out that they helped kill the Divine.

That might be a problem. If you exile them, during the talk with Leliana, the Inquisitor outright says that they intend to let Thedas know what kind of monsters the Wardens are. Plus, the news report outright says that there is rising anti-warden sentiment after the revelations that the Wardens tried to summon a demon army. That and Iron Bull's comment on the ben-hassrath killing any wardens that are left imply that you aren't exiling them to protect them, but to punish them.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Remember, they got exiled from Ferelden before DAO for trying to take over then. They were only allowed back because of the blight. Who's to say they wouldn't try to overthrow the Inquisition, give half a chance. They aren't leaving Thedas, just staying out of Ferelden and Orlais. When the next blight happens, whomever is ruling can decide to allow them back and, for how long at that time. Cory can influence them, they are a bigger liability than the mages and, have a history of trying to oust leaders of nations. They think they can do pretty much anything since it is supposedly to fight the blight, or prevent another one and, get away with it.

 

I don't need them trying to undermine my Quizzy.

[xJLxKing]

I was trying to make a post here for the past few days, but classes and work got in the way

 

 

I am a outraged, OUTRAGED how some people undermine the Grey Warden. Every multi-border organization in Thedas and in our world at one point or another did something very bad. Templar? Check! Inquisition? Check! Circle of Magi? Check! Kings and Queens? Check! Priest and Religion? CHECKKK! I like to think the Thedas, much like our world, is a imperfect world, one where we strive for a perfection we cannot achieve.  Did the Grey Warden do something bad? Yes, but like the Templars in D2, it was the head of the order that destroyed the foundation. Similarly, we can tell how some Warden when told the truth by the Inquisitor that they were manipulated by the Fear Demon and Cory, they were able to try and rectify the situation. Hell, even after the situation was fixed, they offered to accept the punishment the Inquisitor set for them; they even go as far as allowing you a man who is not a Warden to command them. 

 

In reality, the Grey Wardens are needed even when there is no a blight. We know through history that the first blight lasted about 150 years, let me repeat that 150 years. How long did the fifth blight last? not even a full year! That's right! Every new blight is shorter than the previous one. Do you think that happens out of chance? No, it does not. It happens through an Order that has for the past 1,000+ years constantly building strategic strongholds for the purpose of not fight man/elf/dwarf kind, but the Darkspawn. It is an organization that actively recruits members who have a shorter life spam, one that uphold secrets, and must at most time keep the peace.

 

Take for example what happened in Origins. If I remember correctly, weren't the Grey Wardens at one point exiled. Imagine that the Warden Commander wasn't there? Wasn't Loghain preventing other Warden from Orlais from entering Fereldom? It's quite clear that Fereldom itself would have been destroyed.

 

The Grey Warden also seem to have the rights of conscription, I don't think only noble people of good heart go in. It seems quite evident like in Awakening that it conscripts criminals. Yes. some might falter but it also give them structure and discipline

 

But yeah, I'm sure exiling all the Warden from a Nation/Kingdom is a good thing. Who know, maybe the next blight might start tomorrow, then who are you gonna call? Ghost Buster? Certainly not the men and women whom you just exiled and are now begging them to save you.

[Neon Rising Winter]

I wouldn't exile the organisation that has demonstrated such a talent for hairbrained schemes for mass suicide. At this point I'd not let them out to buy a pint of milk without adult supervision.

[Sweawm]

I had a humongous argument with some people about this in a thread a few weeks back, in which I suggested that the means by which the Wardens supposedly sustain their organization between Blights would not plausibly meet their needs unless those needs were preposterously tiny. Since the Wardens are supposed to maintain a global fighting force in the neighborhood of 2,000 to 4,000 trained and drilled professional soldiers of high quality, including templars and mages with concomitant lyrium requirements, their needs cannot be considered to be "preposterously tiny". In fact, those are quite major commitments by European high medieval analogy. I especially drew attention to the very issue that you mention here, that Wardens supposedly do not control estates, which were in fact the primary revenue generators for similar organizations in European medieval history, the military orders. Warden possession of fortresses and keeps across Thedas multiplies rather than diminishes the financial strain on the Order.

 

Take into account that the Wardens likely own territories in the various nations which the local Warden-Commander rules as a feudal lord, likely with little to no taxation. Before they were driven out of Fereldan, they had holdings there such as Warden's Peak. After they came back with no holdings, it's obvious the Wardens are equipped with whatever armor and weapons seem suitable. After the confiscated lands of Arl Howe were given after the events of Origins, the Wardens in Fereldan could probably afford the standard Warden armor that other established garrisons such as those in the  Free Marches and Orlesian Empire are equipped with. 

 

Seriously though, they likely have a lot of income from holdings. After Origins, Fereldan's Wardens not only have a fortress, but are the liege of one of the country's major trade ports. 

 

But then again, I think your estimate is too big. In DA2, the Free Marches Wardens only possibly consisted of anywhere between four to a dozen or so Wardens. The Warden-Commander could only amass a grand total of four Wardens in the events of Legacy.