1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Eveangaline]

I don't understand why exiling them seemed so mean to some people. I mean when I heard my quizzy give the speech it seemed like she was just saying "Hey you don't have to leave forever but right now the big bad can literally mind control you so you aren't the best army for this."

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't understand why exiling them seemed so mean to some people. I mean when I heard my quizzy give the speech it seemed like she was just saying "Hey you don't have to leave forever but right now the big bad can literally mind control you so you aren't the best army for this."

If that's the case, then no, I don't see any real drawback.

[In Exile]

I think you're mistaking resoluteness with casualness.  There is no turning back.  The Wardens are not a fairy tale where they hold one anothers' hands and sing kumbaya.  Once you agree to join, you drink and maybe die, or you die.

 

Well, it's not resoluteness. It's an execution because the GWs obsessively hold on to their ridiculous secrets even in the face of recruits that lack any and all mental capacity to deal with the difficulty of the order. It just proves how terrible they are at their basic function once again: in this case it's identifying people well-suited to be GWs. 

[Klidi]

I let them live, because it doesn't make sense to banish them.

 

Orlesian Wardens did a foolish thing, but they did it in the attempt to stop the future Blights before they all die. That was an important detail for me - they believed that all Grey Wardens are getting their Calling (and as there are no phones and emails in Thedas, they couldn't easily check it's not true). Clarel was in a difficult situation and decided to do her duty - to try to prevent any further Blights from happening. I can see why she would consider anyone opposing the idea a traitor.

 

And there were people who disagreed. Clarel didn't have support of the whole Order. After all, she%

[Monica21]

I don't understand why exiling them seemed so mean to some people. I mean when I heard my quizzy give the speech it seemed like she was just saying "Hey you don't have to leave forever but right now the big bad can literally mind control you so you aren't the best army for this."

 

I'm not sure if there's different dialogue or not, but the Inquisitor says, "By the authority of the Inquisition you are banished from southern Thedas. Loghain will oversee your return to the Warden fortress at Weisshaupt."

 

It's not terribly kind, nor does it imply anywhere that it's for the Warden's protection. The tone is very much one of being punished. Which, if you want to punish the Wardens, that's one thing, but there's nothing that indicates that sending them to Weisshaupt is for their protection.

[DanteYoda]

I didn't exile them because there will be more blights, corphy was only one of the mages that entered the gold city..

[Addai]

I'm not sure if there's different dialogue or not, but the Inquisitor says, "By the authority of the Inquisition you are banished from southern Thedas. Loghain will oversee your return to the Warden fortress at Weisshaupt."

 

It's not terribly kind, nor does it imply anywhere that it's for the Warden's protection. The tone is very much one of being punished. Which, if you want to punish the Wardens, that's one thing, but there's nothing that indicates that sending them to Weisshaupt is for their protection.

Nevertheless I see that as the outcome, no matter what the tone is. Also I don't really see the need to coddle them or pretend that what they did wasn't heinous, with continent-reaching ramifications. They ought to have consequences.

[mopotter]

First game Hawke lived and I kept the wardens with me. If I didn't succeed in killing Corypheus we were all in trouble anyway and if Corypheus was killed there wouldn't be a problem when the next blight came because the Wardens would be around.

 

Second game Hawke died, and I told Stroud to rebuild and then excelled all of them including warden Blackwall, because this inquisitor didn't want to risk them being taken over again.  This one figures it will be a long time before the next blight and whoever is in charge then can invite the wardens back.

 

That said, I liked keeping them and  I do have a game planned where the warden will survive, rebuild and I'll keep them with me.  Whichever warden survives was strong enough to resist Corypheus so they should be able to help anyone who hears the call to the road before we finish, one way or the other, with Corypheus.

[RazorrX]

For me it was an easy thing to do.  

 

We have learned that Red Lyrium is actually regular Lyrium that has been infected with the blight.  Having the thing that makes magic work, something that is everywhere, corrupted by the blight makes me a bit uneasy about the future.  The blight spreading via Lyrium is a pretty daunting thing.

 

We know that there are at least two sentient Darkspawn who either claim to be magisters of old OR have powers beyond normal mages/darkspawn.  Where there were 2 could there be more? Was Coryfish correct and he was a Magister?  IF so was the Architect one as well, but did not remember?  Are the other Magisters 'waking up'?  Can they be controlling the darkspawn as well?  

 

Coryfish was able to use the Nightmare demon to send the calling to all the wardens in the area.  He used this method in order to gain control of the wardens, so the likelyhood of another magister doing the same thing is not very high.  Plus now we know this happened, so can be prepared for it and thus not allow it to happen again (the panic and paranoia).

 

There are more Old Gods out there, and the darkspawn are hunting them.  In the Calling it is said that the Wardens know where they are.  The Architect may have a map to them (Never said if they told him all the locations or not, we know he tried to subject 1 old god to his joining ritual causing the last blight).  

 

Thus the odds that a New Blight or darkspawn threat FAR outweighs the threat of the wardends going batshit again.  I let them stay because they are needed when things hit the fan.  

[MoonDrummer]

I'm not sure if there's different dialogue or not, but the Inquisitor says, "By the authority of the Inquisition you are banished from southern Thedas. Loghain will oversee your return to the Warden fortress at Weisshaupt."

It's not terribly kind, nor does it imply anywhere that it's for the Warden's protection. The tone is very much one of being punished. Which, if you want to punish the Wardens, that's one thing, but there's nothing that indicates that sending them to Weisshaupt is for their protection.

I still want to know where the inquisitors authority to exile wardens from Ferelden comes from, especially when their king is one...

[In Exile]

I still want to know where the inquisitors authority to exile wardens from Ferelden comes from, especially when their king is one...

It's military and political, obviously. It's a not-so-thinly-veiled threat.

[Addai]

I still want to know where the inquisitors authority to exile wardens from Ferelden comes from, especially when their king is one...

That's a good question, but I doubt Alistair would have much leg to stand on once it's known what the Wardens were doing. Since they're corruptible by Corypheus, you could say that it was by virtue of your policing authority in clearing the way to get the Breach closed. He can decide to bring them back once that threat is alleviated.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That's a good question, but I doubt Alistair would have much leg to stand on once it's known what the Wardens were doing. Since they're corruptible by Corypheus, you could say that it was by virtue of your policing authority in clearing the way to get the Breach closed. He can decide to bring them back once that threat is alleviated.

Would he even want to bring them back, in playthroughs where Loghain is or was one of the Wardens? Would Anora want to bring them back in playthroughs where a Warden splashed her with her father's blood?

[Monica21]

I still want to know where the inquisitors authority to exile wardens from Ferelden comes from, especially when their king is one...

Well, I think that once the King of Ferelden starts asking the Inquisition for help dealing with Venatori in his own castle, then he's ceding a degree of authority to you.

[MoonDrummer]

Well, I think that once the King of Ferelden starts asking the Inquisition for help dealing with Venatori in his own castle, then he's ceding a degree of authority to you.

Getting the inquisition to do its job is different to just accepting a heat of the moment decision, made by a foreigner, as law imo. Fereldens are fiercely independent and don't like being told what to do.

 

It would have been interesting if, in the epilogue slides, exiling the wardens led to a fallling out between the Inquisition and Ferelden (and Orzammar I suppose).

[Gold Dragon]

Carver/Bethany (if Wardens) and Anders (if alive & romanced) aren't in Orlais.  Hawke mentions keeping them far away in discussion with him/her (and also that (s)he doesn't like leaving Anders alone if romanced).

 

I suspect thata most of the Ferelden Wardens were too far away/ too durnk (Oghren) to notice it.

[Matroska]

I think you're mistaking resoluteness with casualness.  There is no turning back.  The Wardens are not a fairy tale where they hold one anothers' hands and sing kumbaya.  Once you agree to join, you drink and maybe die, or you die.

True, but the reason that Duncan killed Jory(?) is that if he was allowed to live, he'd potentially tell others of what the Wardens actually do for the Joining which would put everyone off. So it's a necessary evil for the continued existence of the Wardens - and the Wardens are necessary for the continued existence of Thedas. I understand that. I'm just saying this is an organisation that will kill people to keep their secrets. Their foundation is a blood magic ritual that has a very high chance of killing (often) innocent people, and will certainly kill you sooner or later anyway. An organisation with elements so repulsive to the average person that the specifics must be kept secret at all costs, even to the point of killing an innocent man with your own hand.

 

Bear in mind that when you say "once you agree to join", first of all many people are forced to join, and second of all everyone that joins does so without realising what they're actually joining. It's like someone joining the army and then being told "okay, now you have to drink crocodile blood and cocaine - and it has a high chance of killing you - or I just kill you myself right now. I mean, after all, you did choose to join! (Apart from the ones of you I effectively just kidnapped and took here)." Also, while I understand why they did it from a storytelling and drama point of view, it doesn't really make any sense that the recruits aren't told why they need to do this - because that's the only way to kill an Archdemon - rather than just vaguely implying it'll help you sense darkspawn, which doesn't sound all that vital.

[FiveThreeTen]

I already explained why I don't favor exiling them. Someone needs to check what's happening in the deeproads between Blights (Dwarves can't be the only one to bear that burden). Recruiting them kinda repurpose them on that, ie what they are supposed to be doing. Then again, it looks like they aren't many of them left so I suspect it isn't a choice which will be very impactful in the future. And there seem to be trouble at Weisshaupt either way.

 

 

Well, I think that once the King of Ferelden starts asking the Inquisition for help dealing with Venatori in his own castle, then he's ceding a degree of authority to you.

On that note, I wonder what will happen to the fortresses we captured and the camps we established all over Ferelden/Orlais once the threat of Corypheus is gone.

It's stated in the epilogue that many remain in the Inquisition to serve. If the Inquisition is still considered powerful, their neighboors could become a bit wary.

 

Then its somehow alleviated by the fact that the majority of our troops consists of volunteers from those two nations.

[zambingo]

This was a tough decision with tactical justification for both choices.

As such I resorted to role play, basing the choice on my Quizzy's experience. Which were;

Quizzy has a Warden teammate that fights by her side and shows the ability to resist Cory's manipulations (Blackwall's personal story has not been encountered at this point).

Quizzy meets Alistair, famed hero of the Fifth Blight. Another Warden that fights by her side and shows the ability to resist Cory's manipulations.

Quizzy witnesses Wardens turning against Wardens that succumb to Cory's manipulation.

Quizzy pleads for rationality, to stop this before it's too late and more Wardens turn from Cory's manipulations.

Quizzy sees the Warden Commander realize the error of her plans and in turn watches her fight against Cory's manipulations.

Quizzy hears Hawke insist that Alistair must make a difference with the Wardens, moments before giving herself to provide Alistair that chance and the Quizzy the further ability to fight this apocalypse.

In Quizzy's experience the people that make up the Wardens are as people in all groups, maybe even her own. And the people standing before her all fought with her against the darkness.

Quizzy did not banish the Wardens.

My Quizzy had very compelling IN-GAME and IN-STORY reasons to accept the Wardens' aid.

[MonkeyLungs]

That's pretty much how I felt Zambingo. I exiled them on one playthrough but only because I had to do it once. I don't think I will exile them again.

[DDJ]

I have never been overly enamored of the Wardens.  If you consider what they have done in the games alone, their "we live to stop the blight" becomes more than a little pathetic.  Consider DAO where the Warden, depending on the origin you play, is forced into the Wardens willing or no.  In the elf origin for example you have killed a band of human rapists and are going to be hung.  Duncan takes the opportunity to force you into the order.  (Forget the fact that unless you join there is no game for a moment.)  So, why would you feel a particular loyalty to an organization that doesn't seem to give a damn about the rightness of a cause.  Recall too that R. Howe is one of the main enemies in the game, but in Awakening we learn his bitterness came from the fact that his father "abandoned him" for the Wardens.  Likely he died in the joining, but the family is never told leading indirectly to mass torture and murder by Howe who is anti-Warden.  Also, if you play as a female, there is the possibility that the warden is captured and perverted into a brood mother to make more spawn.  Since the Wardens know everything about darkspawn, they surely know this delightful tidbit.  Moving on to DA2 the Qunari invade Kirkwall.  Stroud and the Wardens get out of town because they have important business which even leaves Hawke puzzled. After all, if they are not out of town in the next five minutes or so the world will end.  Then we come to the DLC expansion where the Wardens are being corrupted by C. the first time.  The uncorrupted Warden calls them "more treacherous."  Nor, if you consider the fact that Morrigan's ritual can prevent the Warden's death, one questions why they who "know all" hide it.  So, when corruption in the Wardens is revealed in DAI and the resulting chaos that they caused and needless death, I have only one answer based upon my previous decisions.

 

1.  I always tell Alistair that Duncan was a bastard.  Then I gear him back to friendship with gifts but NEVER apologize.

2.  I always marry Alistair off as king.  After all, the civil war could continue without the alliance and, since it is unlikely that the King of Ferelden will be permitted to go to the Deep Roads, he will turn into a ghoul publicly forcing change on the order.

3.  I never take a sibling to the Deep Roads.  

4.  I always let Stroud stay in the fade.  

5.  I always boot the Wardens.  They are responsible for far more misery than they prevent.  Even Solas says they do a poor job of "protecting the world."

3.  I boot their butts out of Orlais.  

 

Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoy these games and the associated books, films etc., but the Wardens' drink or die philosophy combined with mandatory loyalty (Anders and the Warden who is hunting a cure) leave me more than a little cold.  I have logged ten complete DAI games and who knows how many of the others and would stack them up against any, but when the point of corruption in the ranks is mentioned in DAI it is not really news.  The organization's corruption began long before C showed up.  He only exploited it. 

[Heidirs]

Same reason I sided with the mages in DA2.

 

Yes, there was blood magic EVERYWHERE, but the Wardens thought they were all dying. They were scared for themselves and the future of the Thedas. They were desperate for a solution and didn't realize they were being controlled until it was too late. I can't blame them for trying to do the right thing even if they went about it in the worse possible way.

 

The mages in DA2 also went about it in the worse possible way, but I protected them too.

[DarthLaxian]

Why would you exile them? - Yes, if you are a ruthless "I don't take chances" dick then yeah, go ahead - otherwise it's a good idea to take a leap of faith here!

 

Wardens provide:

 

- influence (a lot of people support them and they themselves have lot's of influence!)

- manpower (I don't seem to have a lot of soldiers at first and I need every man)

- knowledge (they know stuff a lot of ordinary people do not know - from knowledge about the darkspawn to bloodmagic (the joining for example))

 

Oh - and:

 

Keep your friends close - but your enemies closer! (In exile they can do all sorts of crap - if the Inquisition (and Leliana - who is my candidate for divine (and later became divine, too)) keeps it's eye on them, the risk is way lower of that happening (someone who feels needed (and is constantly busy) does not have time to think about doing stuff like toppling kings etc.)

 

greetings LAX

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

I Approve this thread

[Joneleth]

Recall too that R. Howe is one of the main enemies in the game, but in Awakening we learn his bitterness came from the fact that his father "abandoned him" for the Wardens.  Likely he died in the joining, but the family is never told leading indirectly to mass torture and murder by Howe who is anti-Warden.  

Rendon Howe wasn't just anti-Warden but a despicable human being all around. Have you played through the Human Noble Origin?