1570 réponses à ce sujet

[ElementalFury106]

The wardens in DAO were pretty incompetent. He didn't say that they were all villainous, just bad at their jobs.

 

They were proponents to battle plan that led them to an unwinnable scenario. Then they didn't sense the darkpawn that managed to tunnel themselves into the fortress they were in. Riordan then pretty much throws his life away as one third of the wardens that could possibly kill the archdemon.

 

He most definitely did not throw his life away. He died facing the Archdemon, which was expected of him. In fact, like another user mentioned, he crippled its wing so it was forced to land. Without that chance, the Warden could've never defeated the Archdemon. Certainly not in an aerial battle.

 

Riordan did his part and is a goddamn hero.

[dewayne31]

Grey Wardens got a serious character assassination in DAI.

DA:O EWarden's Keep ring they did the same thing but different situations but same result

[katling73]

Why do I not exile the Wardens? Simple really. I'm not stupid enough to waste resources. The Wardens are an excellent fighting force and as long as you keep them away from the Venatori, they're very useful. Pick the right advisor in their war table missions and you end up with a proud and loyal force for the Inquisition who get stuff done and aid the people and redeem themselves very handily. Why on earth would an intelligent Inquisitor waste an excellent resource like the Wardens?

 

Besides if they're with the Inquisition, the Inquisitor and his/her people can monitor them and make sure no other enterprising Venatori tries to lure the Warden mages away into servitude. If you exile them, you're leaving a vulnerable force just ripe for the picking by said enterprising Venatori. It's too much of a risk to exile them. You're pretty much saying, "Here, Venatori. If you can find them, you can have them." Which is kind of what you just stopped. Seems counterproductive to risk letting it happen again.

[JadeDragon]

Why do I not exile the Wardens? Simple really. I'm not stupid enough to waste resources. The Wardens are an excellent fighting force and as long as you keep them away from the Venatori, they're very useful. Pick the right advisor in their war table missions and you end up with a proud and loyal force for the Inquisition who get stuff done and aid the people and redeem themselves very handily. Why on earth would an intelligent Inquisitor waste an excellent resource like the Wardens?

 

Besides if they're with the Inquisition, the Inquisitor and his/her people can monitor them and make sure no other enterprising Venatori tries to lure the Warden mages away into servitude. If you exile them, you're leaving a vulnerable force just ripe for the picking by said enterprising Venatori. It's too much of a risk to exile them. You're pretty much saying, "Here, Venatori. If you can find them, you can have them." Which is kind of what you just stopped. Seems counterproductive to risk letting it happen again.

Exactly why I did it and also allied with the templars. I know my Inquisition is going to keep close eyes on these two groups if they get out of line and they both are experts against certain enemies, demons/mages and darkspawn. Inquisition came from almost nothing so every resource had to be accounted for.

[Cz-99]

'Cause when the next Blight comes, without the Wardens the Darkspawn will laugh at you and be all like, "GG, well played, no re." 

 

Also, only heretics, Daedra-worshippers, nug-humpers, and Darkspawn loyalists slander Riordan. That man was a hero among heroes. Requiescat in pace, brother. 

[Toasted Llama]

I'm glad Bioware put this option in the game.


Now I'm able to point and laugh whenever I see topics pop up talking about "WHY IS ORLAIS AND FERELDEN A WASTELAND? HOW DID EVERYBODY DIE THERE? WHAT ARE THIS?" whenever DA4 rolls around and exiling the Wardens was taken into account.

Can anyone help me think of alternative things to say instead of "told you so"? It'll get boring after the umpteenth thread.

[DomeWing333]

You're just exiling them from Orlais, aren't you? They're still allowed in Fereldan and other places. Not to mention the King of Fereldan in my game happens to be a (former?) Warden and I doubt he'll just let the Blight happen without maybe speaking up a bit about the darkspawn blood thing.

 

BTW, why does that have to be so secretive again? 

[Melyanna]

I exiled them from Orlais for the fist time in my current playthrough, and felt awful the moment some NPC made a comment about the next Blight...

[Fireheart]

I only kept them because I was confused. The game was very vague and obscure about how long the wardens would be exiled for. The last time Wardens were exiled, it was for 200 years, and then the whole Blight fiasco in Ferelden happened because there were too few. I didn't want a repeat of that for Orlais 100, 200, 300, however many years later. I REALLY WANTED to exile them, but since I wasn't sure on the exile time, I kept them. :/ I feel like Bio did that to me on purpose, like they were trying to force me to keep them. I totally agreed with most of the companions that it was bad to have them around while Cory is still able to control them, but, well... My hands were tied. :\ Damn you, Bioware.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

BTW, why does that have to be so secretive again? 

Because it's magic that involves blood, and Thedas is so paranoid about Blood Magic that they forbid academic dissections. Some forumites argue that the Joining isn't Blood Magic, but even if I conceded that (which I don't) a whole bunch of Thedosians probably never will.

[DomeWing333]

Because it's magic that involves blood, and Thedas is so paranoid about Blood Magic that they forbid academic dissections. Some forumites argue that the Joining isn't Blood Magic, but even if I conceded that (which I don't) a whole bunch of Thedosians probably never will.

I think if you told them that "Hey, you know all those times the world almost ended but didn't? It's 'cause some guy (or gal) drank darkspawn blood and then stabbed the Archdemon in the face," they'd probably make an exception.

 

People know the Blight is real, they know that it threatens the existence of humanity whenever it occurs, and they know that Grey Wardens are the only people who can stop it. So much so that whenever a Blight happens, Wardens can just go around randomly conscripting anyone they want, no questions asked. Keeping the "how" from people does nothing but breed doubt and suspicion. Because regardless of how opposed people are to blood magic, I'm betting that they're more opposed to having them and everyone they know and love raped to death by a bunch of Hurlocks.

[Dark Helmet]

Because I never turn down cannon fodder?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think if you told them that "Hey, you know all those times the world almost ended but didn't? It's 'cause some guy (or gal) drank darkspawn blood and then stabbed the Archdemon in the face," they'd probably make an exception.

 

People know the Blight is real, they know that it threatens the existence of humanity whenever it occurs, and they know that Grey Wardens are the only people who can stop it. So much so that whenever a Blight happens, Wardens can just go around randomly conscripting anyone they want, no questions asked. Keeping the "how" from people does nothing but breed doubt and suspicion. Because regardless of how opposed people are to blood magic, I'm betting that they're more opposed to having them and everyone they know and love raped to death by a bunch of Hurlocks.

Are you accusing Thedasians of having common sense?

[happy_daiz]

I exiled them once and hated the ending/outcome. Thus, I won't do it again.

[Gervaise]

I originally thought it made sense to exile them because of Corypheus but hadn't intended it should be permanent or that the whole of Thedas would turn against them.   So long as we still have darkspawn we are going to need Grey Wardens, unless we can come up with an alternative method of killing the archdemon.  

 

So having played through with keeping them and having no short term problems and  a much better long term result, I now favour letting them stay.    After all we are no longer dealing with HQ in the Anderfels but with the local Wardens themselves and hopefully they will be less secretive as a result, which I always felt was half the problem.   If the Hero of Ferelden can come up with a cure for the Calling, so much the better. 

[DomeWing333]

Are you accusing Thedasians of having common sense?

Eh...minimal self preservation instincts and the ability to blindly follow figures of authority. That should be enough.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Eh...minimal self preservation instincts and the ability to blindly follow figures of authority. That should be enough.

The Bannorn says hi.

[DomeWing333]

They just didn't have a big enough figure of authority. Between the Inquisition, Divine Victoria, and possibly King Alistair, I'm sure we can get the masses to where they need to be.

[davepissedatending]

Seriously, is there any sensible stance in favor of letting them stay? I know we all love them as a whole, but the branch we deal with in Inquisition was faced with trouble and defaulted to USE BLOOD MAGIC TO SUMMON A DEMON ARMY. If it were any other faction, we'd put every one of them to the sword, but nostalgia for Origins means that almost everyone let them go with a promise to not do it again. Ridiculous!

I did exile them after what they did to the poor elf lady from Crestwood.
I told her to join

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

They just didn't have a big enough figure of authority. Between the Inquisition, Divine Victoria, and possibly King Alistair, I'm sure we can get the masses to where they need to be.

They had a hero out of a story, whose daughter most of the country seemed to acknowledge as queen and who gave him her authority. One wonders if there is an authority figure big enough for anyone who didn't bow to Loghain right off. (But then Loghain apparently wiped most of them the hell out, and their spokesperson did allow whoever wound up in charge to shelter the mages in his own fief, so maybe the best examples of this behavior among the Bannorn are all dead.)

 

I'll also note that there are elements of the Templars who are rabid enough to kneejerk attack anyone they suspect of using blood magic. (But most of them will probably all be dead too...)

 

Then there's the common people, who are shown to be willing to attack mages for no particular reason during Asunder. I can't imagine they'd approve of Blood Magic either. (I can't think of any deaths that occurred during the series that would mitigate this problem.)

[DomeWing333]

They had a hero out of a story, whose daughter most of the country seemed to acknowledge as queen and who gave him her authority. One wonders if there is an authority figure big enough for anyone who didn't bow to Loghain right off. (But then Loghain apparently wiped most of them the hell out, and their spokesperson did allow whoever wound up in charge to shelter the mages in his own fief, so maybe the best examples of this behavior among the Bannorn are all dead.)

 

I'll also note that there are elements of the Templars who are rabid enough to kneejerk attack anyone they suspect of using blood magic. (But most of them will probably all be dead too...)

 

Then there's the common people, who are shown to be willing to attack mages for no particular reason during Asunder. I can't imagine they'd approve of Blood Magic either. (I can't think of any deaths that occurred during the series that would mitigate this problem.)

The common people attack mages because they've been told their whole lives that mage = bad. But, in this case, they've been taught all their lives that Grey Warden = good. So it's very possible that their stubbornness in their prior beliefs will actually come in handy if the truth about the Joining is revealed.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The common people attack mages because they've been told their whole lives that mage = bad. But, in this case, they've been taught all their lives that Grey Warden = good. So it's very possible that their stubbornness in their prior beliefs will actually come in handy if the truth about the Joining is revealed.

Maybe. I'm sure it's not going to work that way for everyone, and I'm sure it will for some. Which will be the majority view I'm not sure I can say.

[Forsythia77]

I've exiled them and I've kept them.  But ever time I kept them I got Viv as Divine. She is my least favorite Divine even though she is a mage. That's totally me meta-gaming things though.  My personal standpoint is to keep them because apparently I'm forgiving like that. Of course they all die in your war table missions fighting darkspawn, but hey, ya can't win em all.. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I've exiled them and I've kept them.  But ever time I kept them I got Viv as Divine. She is my least favorite Divine even though she is a mage. That's totally me meta-gaming things though.  My personal standpoint is to keep them because apparently I'm forgiving like that. Of course they all die in your war table missions fighting darkspawn, but hey, ya can't win em all.. 

If you use the right advisors on your War Table missions you apparently can win them all.

[DDJ]

From following the comments, everyone seems to have thought this through a lot.  It shows the diversity of we who love the game and helps me understand a bit more why the games' creators have problems in bringing back the Warden - or at least a Warden.  With this latest installment of Dragon Age I think it is obvious that the Inquisitor holds the power not only to stop the mages who unleashed the blights but the blights themselves.

 

I appreciate all of the comments pro and con.  I just finished Adamant again and seriously considered my stance on the Wardens.  Their stance has always been that what they do is for the greater good.  Perhaps some of you are familiar with Karl Popper's work where he points out that if the greater good is defined as the greater happiness and someone who believes this has a weapon that would instantly and painlessly eliminate all life, they should use it.  After all, without all the misery from famine, poverty, illness etc. the concept of greater good would be served.  Of course it would not be for the world's good, nor for the good of the people, but it would serve the greater good.

 

From what Bioware itself has told us, the Wardens believe the ends justify the means.  If you refuse to drink they murder you.  They are easily corruptible by blight tainted creatures of intelligence.  They have willingly touched off the war in DAI resulting in the deaths of thousands.  So when I got to the point of cleaning out Adamant I booted the Wardens again and let Stroud stay in the Fade.  Apologies to those of you who disagree.  I respect your opinions but I cannot get past the secret murder / do as you damn well please attitude nor their weaknesses.  Solas comments that they do the fighting the Blight poorly, a topic I wish I could have questioned him on.  So, I make no leaps of faith here.  From Bioware's own text I have no faith in the Wardens as a group.  As individuals, of course, I judge them as such.