1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkstarr11]

Firstly, there is no "right" or "wrong" answer, since we all know there are no Thedas shaking consequences, either way.

However, the First Blight says hello. What's so special about the First Blight? There were no Wardens, at all. While the Anderfels are still a wasteland, purportedly, they're still there, and people still manage to live there. In the Fifth Blight, how many Wardens were at the archdemon fight? As many as what, 2? With only 3 going in to the Battle of Denerim. The Inquisitor that banishes the Wardens isn't dooming Thedas any more than the Inquisitor that keeps them. The only difference being where the Wardens are. If people that held the remaining archdemons up as some kind of proof that banishing them is bad, there would be no Thedas, because the first archdemon would have destroyed it. It lasted over a century, and there truly were no Wardens to stop him, until the very end. In order for banishing to mean the doom of the "known" world, or at least Orlais and/or Ferelden, it would have to mean that somehow Thedas lost the ability to hold the darkspawn until the Wardens could return. Nothing presented in the time of the choice, or afterwards, supports this.

 

Aside from the Inquisition, who actually has the manpower to successfully repel the darkspawn should they rise again?  Ferelden took a beating during the previous Blight, and Orlais has been involved in a civil war.  Top that off with the Elder One's forces hammering them every chance they got; the Freemen using hit and run tactics; Red Templars taking people for their 'mining operations'...well, its going to curtail any serious efforts to raise a large standing force to stand against a darkspawn hoard.

 

Can we guarantee that there are no long term issues with exile?  Simply because Bioware hasn't announced one doesn't mean that they can't figure out how to change it up for the next in the series.  We don't know.  Rule of thumb is to be prepared.  Having more options available to you in any setting is preferable to not.  Some people thought that killing Wrex in Mass Effect wasn't big deal.  Or that screwing over the Krogan on the Geonophage cure wasn't going to bite them.  Now we have left either a Warden or the Champion in the Fade, and someone drank from the Well.  Rather than assume that they will amount to nothing, I choose to go with pragmatism and believe they will.  Besides, Thedas has just gone through THREE major events.  The Fifth Blight, the Mage/Templar War, and the war between the Elder One and the Inquisition.  Not to mention the other events going on, like the Orlesian Civil War.  If another Archdemon arose during or right after that conflict, EXACTLY how would that go?  Aside from the Inquisition, who would be able to hold them off?  If you have no Wardens, you will have to wait UNTIL they arrive, THEN lop off its head.  I don't know if Morrigan is up for sharing her knowledge OR popping out another kid...so, yeah.  When all is said and done?  A seriously battered Inquisition, weakened Orlais and Ferelden?  Do you REALLY think Tevinter or the Qunari is JUST going to sit there and do nothing?  REALLY?  A chance to pick off an old enemy and expand your territory?  History has shown that it would be the PERFECT time to steamroll your enemy.  An army of mages descending upon weakened forces?  Yeah, looks bad, and TOTALLY within the realm of possibility.  Having Wardens would potentially, but not guarantee that you could reduce the potential losses enough to maintain at least the appearance of a powerful force that would be enough to deter even an expeditionary force from exploratory incursions into your holdings.  

 

Remember that this IS speculation on my part.  My opinion.  Whilst in the way of saying OVERALL that there is no right decision, according to an individual, and based upon their personal experiences, thoughts, morals and the like, yes there CAN be a 'right' decision.  At least personally and I'd rather be over prepared than not.  

[JadeDragon]

The Inquisition is not some immortal army. In fact its power is more so from its alliances which has provided them with funds and man power as well as support from the people. But lets not act like we know the Inquisition could handle darkspawn just as well as the wardens. Wardens are trained to fight darkspawn just like templars are trained to fight mages answer demons. The Inquisition is slightly more well rounded but they never dealt with a blight. There soldiers are going to get sick and they are not gonna know how to treat them without the wardens help. I am sure they can be a big help in a blight and maybe hold off the darkspawn long enough for the Wardens to get word of whats going on but Southern thedas is weak right now. The inquisition may do well in a blight but even there survival is dependant on the Wardens. They can't fight them off forever, even if they kill a bunch of darkspawn they are still losing soldiers in the process and the ratio of darkspawn to inquisition members does not favor them. Plus i assume the people of thedas still look up to Wardens as heroes during the blight so I doubt the Inquisition allies will run to them for help before the Wardens who are 5-0 in blights

[robertthebard]

The premise of the previous two posts is about the same, so I'm going to try for a 1 size fits all answer:

So, the idea is that, despite what we know, there are never any wars on Thedas unless the PC is directly involved. I seem to recall that Tevinter is always "at war" with the Qunari, and that there are skirmishes, at the least, with Orlais and Tevinter, note that there is at least one War Table mission that covers that last bit.

The point being, despite what people seem to think, these countries don't go into stasis mode immediately after a game ends. Ferelden has had 10 years to rebuild it's army, and damage from the Blight. For us, it's not been that long, but since DA I covers 10 years, there's been time for rebuilding, manpower and infrastructure.

There was no Inquisition to hold off the first blight either, just as there were no Wardens. Yes, a Blight is a bad thing, however, Thedas has dealt with them before, and frankly, even if all the Wardens surviving were in the right place at the right time, they would still have to have the support of the rest of Thedas. Those treaties from DA O? Did everyone forget that they were ancient? It would be safe to assume, if it's not outright stated somewhere, that they were drawn up after the First Blight. So no matter what, people are going to get sick. People are going to die and worse, no matter what one does with the Wardens, because it's sort of poor strategy to throw the only people that can actually end the blight into the mix with the cannon fodder.

So these justifications are just that, justifications. You are certainly free to use them as a, or the justification for keeping them around, but let's not pretend that there is any real weight to them. I'm sure most of Thedas was weak half way through the first blight, it lasted more than 100 years. Yet, there is still a Thedas. The only difference between banished and not banished is the length of time it takes to get a Warden to the Archdemon, and, frankly, that's speculation, because it may not matter at all in the long run.

BTW, it's pretty easy to be 5 - 0 in Blights, when the Wardens are the only ones that can kill an archdemon. That's sort of like awarding a prize for some kind of special achievement when you have 4 men and 1 woman, and she gets pregnant while the others don't. However, the flipside to this is, what happens if those 5 - 0 Wardens all die before you get to the archdemon? Barring plot armor for Alistair and the Warden, that could have happened in Ostagar.

[prosthetic soul]

Because I like to metagame and there's no chance in hell that Cassandra's becoming Divine while I'm still breathing. 

[The Oracle]

It's a hard choice. Keeping them close means you can also keep an eye on them and ensure that there is no further moves to raise demon armies. Just because Clarel came to her senses at the end, doesn't mean to say that there aren't other Warden's in the ranks that may be under Coryface's sway. However, it could mean that they are more vulnerable to him as well. Exiling them may keep them safe or just spread the ideas they planned back to the other Grey Warden's in Weishaupt, away from the questioning eyes of anyone.

 

If there was a choice in game, I would conscript them and then send them away (though perhaps not to Weishaupt) with a few ex-Templars (or Templars if you chose that option) selected by Cullen for their skill, to monitor them for any signs of ongoing corruption.As I can't though, I just conscript them for the most part, though I've tried both. That they need to be around until a better solution is found to end the Blights is undeniable. 

[ThePhoenixKing]

It's a hard choice. Keeping them close means you can also keep an eye on them and ensure that there is no further moves to raise demon armies. Just because Clarel came to her senses at the end, doesn't mean to say that there aren't other Warden's in the ranks that may be under Coryface's sway. However, it could mean that they are more vulnerable to him as well. Exiling them may keep them safe or just spread the ideas they planned back to the other Grey Warden's in Weishaupt, away from the questioning eyes of anyone.

 

If there was a choice in game, I would conscript them and then send them away (though perhaps not to Weishaupt) with a few ex-Templars (or Templars if you chose that option) selected by Cullen for their skill, to monitor them for any signs of ongoing corruption.As I can't though, I just conscript them for the most part, though I've tried both. That they need to be around until a better solution is found to end the Blights is undeniable. 

 

The problem with putting the Wardens under the oversight of the Templars is that the Templars (indeed, most of the factions in the setting) have done a lot worse for a lot longer for a lot less justifiable reasons. Even Cullen was perfectly willing to cover his ears and ignore the rampant sexual abuse, torture and random Tranquilizations going on in the Kirkwall Circle, for which he was never taken to task. It's kinda like dealing with corruption in the US Army by asking FIFA to monitor them; the cure is far worse than the disease.

 

Maybe this is me and my utter refusal to operate on outrage culture logic, but I fail to see how an organization that has saved the world on no fewer than five seperate occasions and is the only reason anyone still lives to ****** about them should be hampered or condemned by the actions of a single branch being manipulated by an extradimensional evil. And that's an important thing to note too: the rest of the villains/opposing powers in Inquisition made those choices consciously (Fiona selling out to the Venatori, the Templars taking red lyrium, etc). The Wardens at least had the excuse of Nightmare deceiving them, why should they be punished when the people who made bad choices without such manipulation get off scott-free?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Maybe this is me and my utter refusal to operate on outrage culture logic, but I fail to see how an organization that has saved the world on no fewer than five seperate occasions and is the only reason anyone still lives to ****** about them should be hampered or condemned by the actions of a single branch being manipulated by an extradimensional evil. And that's an important thing to note too: the rest of the villains/opposing powers in Inquisition made those choices consciously (Fiona selling out to the Venatori, the Templars taking red lyrium, etc). The Wardens at least had the excuse of Nightmare deceiving them, why should they be punished when the people who made bad choices without such manipulation get off scott-free?

I don't think all of the Templars chose to be corrupted either: they took the red lyrium, but I didn't think most of the Templars knew what it did except by experiencing it (by which point it's rather too late to do anything about.) The mages have less of an excuse, since they stuck around after Fiona sold them out to Tevinter. As for why you'd punish the Wardens when idiots like Fiona get off scot-free: just because you don't have the option to punish Fiona for whatever reason doesn't mean it's not a good idea to punish the Wardens. I don't see why the fact that you can't not be a hypocrite about this if you recruited Fiona means that you shouldn't do it at all.

 

None of this necessarily means that I disagree with you that the Wardens shouldn't be punished or that Fiona (and certainly the Templar leaders who willingly chose the path they did) aren't much worse than the Wardens. I'm just nitpicking.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

I didn't read all 38 pages of this, but I usually keep the Wardens around.

 

Better to have them under my thumb and where I can see them while at the same time feeling grateful for my "mercy" and motivate to prove their worth. The Inquisition's spy network would help me direct the Wardens away from where Venatori seem to be active. The additional manpower would be useful to compensate for the losses suffered attacking Adamant. 

 

Otherwise you have a group of leaderless, dejected soldiers who are suppose to leave Orlais to go where? North to the Weisshaupt, taking them closer to Tevinter where the Venatori are strongest? Morrigan points out that distance may not matter for Corypheus' body's switch ability so he might end up reincarnating right in the midst of them, giving him a chance to bring them back under control. 

 

This is putting aside the knowledge you get from Last Flight and the epilogue that the Warden leadership in Weisshaupt is suspect. Keeping the Wardens gives an ending where the order is reformed for the better in the South. Exiling them means they disappear from all of Thedas.

[The Oracle]

The problem with putting the Wardens under the oversight of the Templars is that the Templars (indeed, most of the factions in the setting) have done a lot worse for a lot longer for a lot less justifiable reasons. Even Cullen was perfectly willing to cover his ears and ignore the rampant sexual abuse, torture and random Tranquilizations going on in the Kirkwall Circle, for which he was never taken to task. It's kinda like dealing with corruption in the US Army by asking FIFA to monitor them; the cure is far worse than the disease.

 

Maybe this is me and my utter refusal to operate on outrage culture logic, but I fail to see how an organization that has saved the world on no fewer than five seperate occasions and is the only reason anyone still lives to ****** about them should be hampered or condemned by the actions of a single branch being manipulated by an extradimensional evil. And that's an important thing to note too: the rest of the villains/opposing powers in Inquisition made those choices consciously (Fiona selling out to the Venatori, the Templars taking red lyrium, etc). The Wardens at least had the excuse of Nightmare deceiving them, why should they be punished when the people who made bad choices without such manipulation get off scott-free?

 

It's not punishing them. It's either sending them away for their own safety, due to all the blood magic they've fallen under, or conscripting them so they are nearby and helping. I don't think the option of "as you were, go ahead and do whatever you want" would be a good choice. They sacrificed their own to build a demon army that was going to take overrun Thedas. It irks me that lots of people go unpunished for frankly god awful decisions, simply due to Bioware not giving us the option. As said above though, just cause others get away with it (completely outwith our control) doesn't mean to say that the Wardens should.

 

Also, Templars were under the sway of a Demon and Mages were being lied to by the Venatori. All three groups were under pressure, all three made friggin awful decisions and all three are left to the judgement of the Inquisition. In each of the judgement scenes, I think the Inquisitor is actually very well balanced in stating that they did wrong and they would be allowed to redeem themselves/rebuild/retreat.

[robertthebard]

The problem with putting the Wardens under the oversight of the Templars is that the Templars (indeed, most of the factions in the setting) have done a lot worse for a lot longer for a lot less justifiable reasons. Even Cullen was perfectly willing to cover his ears and ignore the rampant sexual abuse, torture and random Tranquilizations going on in the Kirkwall Circle, for which he was never taken to task. It's kinda like dealing with corruption in the US Army by asking FIFA to monitor them; the cure is far worse than the disease.
 
Maybe this is me and my utter refusal to operate on outrage culture logic, but I fail to see how an organization that has saved the world on no fewer than five seperate occasions and is the only reason anyone still lives to ****** about them should be hampered or condemned by the actions of a single branch being manipulated by an extradimensional evil. And that's an important thing to note too: the rest of the villains/opposing powers in Inquisition made those choices consciously (Fiona selling out to the Venatori, the Templars taking red lyrium, etc). The Wardens at least had the excuse of Nightmare deceiving them, why should they be punished when the people who made bad choices without such manipulation get off scott-free?

I'm curious, other than the offending parties, or people that were party to the offense, what other branch of the Wardens are being exiled? Are we sending them all to Thedas' moon or something? Seems to me like we exile, if we do, the guilty parties, and don't mess with anyone else. Did I miss something?

[JadeDragon]

just the branch in orlais as far as I know.

[Darkstarr11]

I'm curious, other than the offending parties, or people that were party to the offense, what other branch of the Wardens are being exiled? Are we sending them all to Thedas' moon or something? Seems to me like we exile, if we do, the guilty parties, and don't mess with anyone else. Did I miss something?

 

Sadly, due to possibly oversight, the game seems to make it a very general statement.  Just, Grey Wardens, get out!  I mean, wouldn't it have been easier to tell them to retreat OUT of Orlais until the Elder One was dead?  "Listen, you are at risk, so you need to leave.  We'll send for you as soon as its clear."  I really wish that had been an option.  

[Vicious]

They have their uses

 

if you let them stay they get killed to nearly the last man anyway unless you do your war table missions just right, but either way there are only a few running around.

 

 

Besides, Wardens aren't all bad. The two noobs (one has the almost never-seen 'Warden Recruit' helmet) you meet in Crestwood stopped to help that lady, and one of them, the archer i think, says they should help out the people, bringing back echoes of the DA:O dogooder wardens, while the other says he agrees but they must respect the chain of command being noobs and all.

[Sunnie]

If you do the warden war table missions just right, the Inquisition Wardens only take light losses and remain a strong force, who then create their own faction of GW and declare independence from Weisshaupt after Coryfypiss is dealt with.

[robertthebard]

If you do the warden war table missions just right, the Inquisition Wardens only take light losses and remain a strong force, who then create their own faction of GW and declare independence from Weisshaupt after Coryfypiss is dealt with.

Do they shout "Remember Warden's Keep" going into battle? Independent factions of GWs sounds like a good thing, doesn't it, until they mess around and get themselves exiled: Sophia Dryden. Historically speaking, it seems like that's the only time they get in trouble, at least to me, that hasn't read the books.

[Cute Nug]

Since they can't be trusted and may kill another divine they should be locked in circles. That way people are protected and they can be used like mages when needed if another blight happens.

 

Or they can be put in a nice alienage with the elves. Didn't Orlais purge there alienage recently. Should be all sorts of nice vacant alienage hovels or empty mage circle dormantories available.

 

Can they still fight darkspawn if you make them tranquils?  

[Darkstarr11]

Since they can't be trusted and may kill another divine they should be locked in circles. That way people are protected and they can be used like mages when needed if another blight happens.

 

Or they can be put in a nice alienage with the elves. Didn't Orlais purge there alienage recently. Should be all sorts of nice vacant alienage hovels or empty mage circle dormantories available.

 

Can they still fight darkspawn if you make them tranquils?  

 

A Tranquil Grey Warden is potentially the most useless thing in the history of useless things.  It wouldn't even serve as a decent shield.  Its just meat.

 

And you'd need a NEW Divine before you could kill one again.  Though out of the three choices, I'm betting Vivienne goes down quickest.  It's a toss up between Cassandra and Leliana.  Could you see the Templars or Mages jumping to Vivienne's defense?

 

 

As I said, keeping them means reforming them into a better order.  Whatever is going on with the leadership of the Wardens might be really bad.  Even Riodan states that they are a very cold group.  Being so disconnected from everyone has changed them.  Bringing them into the Inquisition can lead to a brighter future for the Wardens.  Make them better.  Kicking them out does leave a huge loose end.  Where will they go?  Back to join the other Wardens?  The ones up there in the Anderfels acting weird and dangerous?  

 

Better to keep a close eye on them.  Keep your friend close, your enemies closer?

[Nixou]

Can we guarantee that there are no long term issues with exile?

 

 

Yes we can.

The Wardens' fate will be essentially the same whether they were exiled or pardoned because Bioware is not going to expend resources developing two different games with two widely different storylines when the time comes to tackle the aforementioned fate and its consequences.

 

 

Some people thought that killing Wrex in Mass Effect wasn't big deal.  Or that screwing over the Krogan on the Geonophage cure wasn't going to bite them

 

 

True, choices like the Wardens' exile, Justinia's successor, the Dark Ritual, who's left in the Fade or who drank from the Well may end up affecting the series conclusion: emphasis on Conclusion: if the Dragon Age series remains successful and profitable enough to reach its Thedas 9:99 grand finale, perhaps we may end up seeing far-reaching consequences of past decisions. But before that, the series writers will have to keep cutting off branches.

[FALCONGTX]

I tried very hard to actually find reason to exile them and i didn't - killing one useless Marjolaine's lover while being under control against saving world for five times now - lol ofcourse they will stay. OP come back when andrastian chantry actually saves world even for once.

[Squeets]

The problem with putting the Wardens under the oversight of the Templars is that the Templars (indeed, most of the factions in the setting) have done a lot worse for a lot longer for a lot less justifiable reasons. Even Cullen was perfectly willing to cover his ears and ignore the rampant sexual abuse, torture and random Tranquilizations going on in the Kirkwall Circle, for which he was never taken to task. It's kinda like dealing with corruption in the US Army by asking FIFA to monitor them; the cure is far worse than the disease.

 

Maybe this is me and my utter refusal to operate on outrage culture logic, but I fail to see how an organization that has saved the world on no fewer than five seperate occasions and is the only reason anyone still lives to ****** about them should be hampered or condemned by the actions of a single branch being manipulated by an extradimensional evil. And that's an important thing to note too: the rest of the villains/opposing powers in Inquisition made those choices consciously (Fiona selling out to the Venatori, the Templars taking red lyrium, etc). The Wardens at least had the excuse of Nightmare deceiving them, why should they be punished when the people who made bad choices without such manipulation get off scott-free?

Whats more is those other factions didn't just do it consciously, but out of pure self-interest... The Mages to succeed in their rebellion... The Templars (leadership) to destroy the world and rebuild it as they saw fit.

 

While the Wardens were fooled into believing they would all soon die, and saw their actions as their only chance to save the world from future blights... And were sacrificing themselves both to summon the demons and in a suicidal invasion of the deep roads to that end, entirely selfless with the interest of the entire world in mind.

 

Though there is a pretty glaring plot hole in all of this, in my opinion... They mention that the calling had been occurring for quite a while and that they looked everywhere for answers and help... Only turning to Tevinter and unknowingly agents of Corypheus as a last resort... Yet until you talk to Hawke and then Stroud, no one has seen or heard from the Wardens in months... No one knows where there are, what they are doing, or the circumstances of their disappearance... Leliana, one of the most intelligent, influential, powerful, etc., people in all of Orlais and her vast network of agents, all cultivated in support of the most powerful person in all of Andrastian Thedas, the Divine, had neither heard or discovered anything about them?

 

So they look far and wide for help, yet no one in all of Orlais knows anything about them or their circumstances until the very last moment? That is pretty silly.

[Incantrix]

I thought DAI was over 3 years, as per David.

The premise of the previous two posts is about the same, so I'm going to try for a 1 size fits all answer:

So, the idea is that, despite what we know, there are never any wars on Thedas unless the PC is directly involved. I seem to recall that Tevinter is always "at war" with the Qunari, and that there are skirmishes, at the least, with Orlais and Tevinter, note that there is at least one War Table mission that covers that last bit.

The point being, despite what people seem to think, these countries don't go into stasis mode immediately after a game ends. Ferelden has had 10 years to rebuild it's army, and damage from the Blight. For us, it's not been that long, but since DA I covers 10 years, there's been time for rebuilding, manpower and infrastructure.

There was no Inquisition to hold off the first blight either, just as there were no Wardens. Yes, a Blight is a bad thing, however, Thedas has dealt with them before, and frankly, even if all the Wardens surviving were in the right place at the right time, they would still have to have the support of the rest of Thedas. Those treaties from DA O? Did everyone forget that they were ancient? It would be safe to assume, if it's not outright stated somewhere, that they were drawn up after the First Blight. So no matter what, people are going to get sick. People are going to die and worse, no matter what one does with the Wardens, because it's sort of poor strategy to throw the only people that can actually end the blight into the mix with the cannon fodder.

So these justifications are just that, justifications. You are certainly free to use them as a, or the justification for keeping them around, but let's not pretend that there is any real weight to them. I'm sure most of Thedas was weak half way through the first blight, it lasted more than 100 years. Yet, there is still a Thedas. The only difference between banished and not banished is the length of time it takes to get a Warden to the Archdemon, and, frankly, that's speculation, because it may not matter at all in the long run.

BTW, it's pretty easy to be 5 - 0 in Blights, when the Wardens are the only ones that can kill an archdemon. That's sort of like awarding a prize for some kind of special achievement when you have 4 men and 1 woman, and she gets pregnant while the others don't. However, the flipside to this is, what happens if those 5 - 0 Wardens all die before you get to the archdemon? Barring plot armor for Alistair and the Warden, that could have happened in Ostagar.

[robertthebard]

I thought DAI was over 3 years, as per David.

Yeah, that should have said DA II, not sure what happened there.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

I could never justify letting them stay. Always exiled them. You really only need one Grey Warden, anyway. Frankly, the whole' sense darkspawn' thing never really existed (unless you count blips on the minimap, which even the Inquisitor had).  I also think, given Last Flight, that exiling them to the Anderfels will work out more in their (everyones) favor, anyhow.

 

From an Inquisitor's stance, keeping them around makes no sense and is a guarenteed liability to the Inquisition's success (especially after the initial Temple scenes in the Arbor Wilds).

 

edit:: Also, I doubt another Blight will happen. Even if it does > you really only need one Grey Warden, anyway

Regardless of what was done you would leave all the surrounding nations defenseless,if all wardens were confined to the Anderfels several things could happen.

(1)The Darkspawn preemptively strike and kill all of the wardens due to them not having contingents spread out amongst  various countries 

 

(2)Due to not having those contingents of wardens in various nations/fortresses and assorted stronghold, when a blight or simple invasion from the deep roads occurs a proper response by the wardens will not be feasible due to the time lag of messages being dispatched to the Anderfels and a suitable response being formed.

 

(3)Due to above reasons wardens on the ground(as there are none) cannot use the treaties to enforce cooperation between disparate nation states to face a greater threat.

[Darkstarr11]

Also, since nobody BUT the Wardens knows how to make new ones, if there is another Archdemon, it will take time to fight them off.  The policy of the Wardens not to share information will work against them (and everyone else) in the long run.  As was said, if they all head up to the Anderfels, and something happens to wipe them out, another Blight could destroy the world.  The First Wardens stumbled on to the process (and it appears to be blood magic).  If the Chantry found out HOW the Wardens get their abilities, do you think they won't try to put a stop to it?  Under anyone else other than Leliana, I mean.  Vivienne  seems to think we don't NEED Wardens anymore and Cassandra thinks they are more trouble than they are worth...

 

Keeping them, reforming them...it gives them a chance not just to be better, but if they share their secrets with the Inquisition, there is a chance that if they fall, more Wardens can STILL be made to fight off the Blight.