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[robertthebard]

My own love for the Grey Wardens aside (DA:O FTW!), after the Grey Wardens failed to overthrow the tyrant King Arland, they were banished from Ferelden for over two hundred years. While they were tentatively allowed back in Ferelden by Maric, the stigma against them remained, and they were not allowed to return with too much freedom or too many numbers. This bit Ferelden in the backside when the Archdemon awoke and attacked Ferelden from within (no doubt on purpose, in the area with the least amount of Grey Wardens and where they are least welcome). Because of the stigma against the Grey Wardens leftover from being banished two centuries before (*cough*LOGHAIN*cough*), the Wardens were not allowed to effectively combat the Blight until it was almost too late. (If Flemeth hadn't saved the Warden and Alistair, and they hadn't defied Loghain by raising an army against the Blight despite his efforts to kill them, Ferelden almost surely would have been wiped off the map.)
 
I don't want to banish them from Orlais because I don't want to risk a repeat of Ferelden. Orlais is a huge empire with a lot of influence over the world. If they forbid Grey Wardens, who else might follow? What happens if there's another Archdemon, or Blight, or intelligent darkspawn who choose to attack the place where Grey Wardens are not present or welcome, and people hold onto the stigma against Grey Wardens even when they're needed to combat (mindless) darkspawn?
 
THAT'S why my character (who used Inquisition Perks to read up on the History of Thedas) didn't banish them. And it worked out. Even without reading spoilers or metagaming, I chose to take a chance on letting the Grey Wardens stay, and it paid off. Keeping them didn't help Corypheus win, so I see nothing wrong with players deciding to keep them.

So your Inquisitor, that used his/her perks to read up on the history of Thedas completely missed the fact that the first blight lasted for over a century, and yet, there's still a Thedas to defend from blights? No matter where you send the Wardens, they are not a century away. So I'd say that your reasoning is more based on your romanticism of the Wardens than actual historical fact, and, to be perfectly frank, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. There can't be, because there is no "right" answer to the question.

[diaspora2k5]

I found it better to exile them precisely because I liked them. Having them be conscripted by a power disconnected from central command- Weisshaupt struck me as a bad idea. IIRC, Weisshaupt was already growing concerned by Clarel's lack of communication, if nothing else it points to Clarel's failure of leadership rather than the failure of the Wardens overall. If anyone needs Eluvians for communication it's these guys.

[SgtSteel91]

https://twitter.com/...641592149155840

 

Sure seems like Grey Wardens would be handy right about now

[robertthebard]

https://twitter.com/...641592149155840
 
Sure seems like Grey Wardens would be handy right about now

Is there an archdemon that needs killing? If not, I went through that cave when it was full of darkspawn and check it out, we killed 'em all. None of them pulled a Cory, or an Archdemon and came back, barring respawns later, I guess. Contrary to the romantic notion, GWs are not the only ones that can fight darkspawn, they're just the only ones that can kill an archdemon.

[FALCONGTX]

So your Inquisitor, that used his/her perks to read up on the history of Thedas completely missed the fact that the first blight lasted for over a century, and yet, there's still a Thedas to defend from blights? No matter where you send the Wardens, they are not a century away. So I'd say that your reasoning is more based on your romanticism of the Wardens than actual historical fact, and, to be perfectly frank, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. There can't be, because there is no "right" answer to the question.

And you ingnored the fact that Thedas needed  century of blight to figure out how kill AD and this was in lands of most powerfull empire atm Tevinter who at end of blight was so miserable that they lost to some barbarians(Alamari and Co.) You seems too bitter towards fictional faction from my point wich is stange. And yes wardens only ones who can fight darkspawn effectively any others have big risk of being tainted just look at Storm Coast or Western Approach all ghouls you will meet are people who were not wardens - so much for just killing archdemon.

[robertthebard]

And you ingnored the fact that Thedas needed  

century of blight to figure out how kill AD and this was in lands of most powerfull empire atm Tevinter who at end of blight was so miserable that they lost to some barbarians(Alamari and Co.) You seems too bitter towards fictional faction from my point wich is stange. And yes wardens only ones who can fight darkspawn effectively any others have big risk of being tainted just look at Storm Coast or Western Approach all ghouls you will meet are people who were not wardens - so much for just killing archdemon.

Does this somehow mitigate the fact that Thedas is still here four blights later? Actually, it appears that you latched onto the first sentence of my post and ran with it, since I went on to explain that there is no right or wrong answer. I just wrapped up my Nightmare run this morning. In it, the Wardens are allies and are rebuilding Adamant. How bitter I must be, eh?

There's also the little plot hole of the herb for the kennel master in Ostagar that cured the mabari of infection. The main times that we see people dying as a result of the taint, or even being infected by it are "drive the point home" plot points in Ostagar, Ruck, the Elf that was with the DE, and the DE Warden, and Wesley in DA II. The point you're overlooking is that the entirety of the army on the field in Ostagar weren't Wardens, only a very small percentage of them. As in any of the Blights, those ancient treaties brought plenty of non Wardens in for the fight against the darkspawn, at the Battle of Denerim anyway, but the majority of the army on the field in Ostagar were just regular soldiers, not Wardens.

Edit: the forum broke the quote tags.

[FALCONGTX]

Does this somehow mitigate the fact that Thedas is still here four blights later? Actually, it appears that you latched onto the first sentence of my post and ran with it, since I went on to explain that there is no right or wrong answer. I just wrapped up my Nightmare run this morning. In it, the Wardens are allies and are rebuilding Adamant. How bitter I must be, eh?

There's also the little plot hole of the herb for the kennel master in Ostagar that cured the mabari of infection. The main times that we see people dying as a result of the taint, or even being infected by it are "drive the point home" plot points in Ostagar, Ruck, the Elf that was with the DE, and the DE Warden, and Wesley in DA II. The point you're overlooking is that the entirety of the army on the field in Ostagar weren't Wardens, only a very small percentage of them. As in any of the Blights, those ancient treaties brought plenty of non Wardens in for the fight against the darkspawn, at the Battle of Denerim anyway, but the majority of the army on the field in Ostagar were just regular soldiers, not Wardens.

Edit: the forum broke the quote tags.

Well about bitterness - you may not believe but i read entire thread and you seems not like wardens much, but let us stop before it turns personal without need.

 

Mabari at Ostagar is definetly plot hole because at same Ostagar Ash warriors were discussing usage muzzles on their mabari to prevent them from biting DS otherwise dogs get tainted and this means certain death or ghoulificaton. Ruck - we don't know how long he was eating DS and maybe he did cook DS so they were less foul wich slowed down ghoulificaton.  Elf that was with the DE - already ghoul at the time he attacks a camp if i remember correctly. DE was turned into warden - otherwise he dies(Merrill in DA2). Wesley - at the moment Hawkes were fleeing from Lothering it was mount at max one mount since Ostagar and one who fighted there was Aveline, so in less that mount Wesley already was almost ghoul. Yeah and from Alexius notes in Redcliff we know that different people have different tolerance towards taint but eventually they all will end same way - dead or ghoul. 

And no i am not overlooking this point - it was plot device Fereldan branch of GW was considerebly smaller than any other because of well known reasons. Orlesian GW were not presented because of Logain. Same goes for Denerim. In any other blight there at least hundreds of wardens fighting against DS i presume. You on contrary are fully ignored that in times between blights GW are ones who fighting DS on surface - again see Storm Coast and Western Approach as refference or Valeska's Watch if you like. And they were doing it before Cory's plot demand came in play. And will do so if they are allowed to stay.

PS. And about that army of non-GW that fight in times of Blight - why only look on them before the fight i am sure that after battle every one(if they survived battle of course) who tainted is is either joins GW(or dies in joining) or joins DS. But considering that 2 of 3 DS units are ghouls in this game i think that most solders from battle for Denerim joined DS.

[robertthebard]

Well about bitterness - you may not believe but i read entire thread and you seems not like wardens much, but let us stop before it turns personal without need.
 
Mabari at Ostagar is definetly plot hole because at same Ostagar Ash warriors were discussing usage muzzles on their mabari to prevent them from biting DS otherwise gogs get tainted and this means certain death or ghoulificaton. Ruck - we don't know how long he was eating DS and maybe he did cook DS so they were less foul wich slowed down ghoulificaton.  Elf that was with the DE - already ghoul at the time he attacks a camp if i remember correctly. DE was turned into warden - otherwise he dies(Merrill in DA2). Wesley - at the moment Hawkes were fleeing from Lothering it was mount at max one mount since Ostagar and one who fighted there was Aveline, so in less that mount Wesley already was almost ghoul. Yeah and from Alexius notes in Redcliff we know that different people have different tolerance towards taint but eventually they all will end same way - dead or ghoul. 

And no i am not overlooking this point - it was plot device Fereldan branch of GW was considerebly smaller than any other because of well known reasons. Orlesian GW were not presented because of Logain. Same goes for Denerim. In any other blight there at least hundreds of wardens fighting against DS i presume. You on contrary are fully ignored that in times between blights GW are ones who fighting DS on surface - again see Storm Coast and Western Approach as refference or Valeska's Watch if you like. And they were doing it before Cory's plot demand came in play. And will do so if they are allowed to stay.

PS. And about that army of non-GW that fight in times of Blight - why only look on them before the fight i am sure that after battle every one(if they survived battle of course) who tainted is is either joins GW(or dies in joining) or joins DS. But considering that 2 of 3 DS units are ghouls in this game i think that most solders from battle for Denerim joined DS.

The problem is, if we take your statement about what happens when you fight darkspawn as literal, is that after 100 years, there wouldn't be anyone left, would there? The watch you mention in Emprise? That's a Warden stronghold, hence all the Warden stuff in it, such as the statues. It wouldn't be surprising to find Warden stuff in there. My entire history in this thread will demonstrate one thing: there is no right or wrong answer to Adamant, it is on the Inquisitor of the hour to make whatever choice they deem acceptable at the time the decision is made.

Yes, I have looked at the motivations, and the romanticism that some use to defend keeping them. Yes, I have pointed out the contradictions in history, purely from the games on my part, and what people post, such as "nobody but wardens can fight darkspawn", which would mean that the Legion of the Dead is comprised entirely of Wardens. I have pointed out that the treaties we are sent into the Wilds to get are ancient, and I have postulated that they were likely drawn up after the first blight, even though that is pure speculation on my part, meaning that non-Wardens have been fighting blights since the very first one. If it were any where near as virulent as you're trying to portray it here, there would be no Thedas to stop blights for. Infected people would infect other people etc., and everyone's dead.

In three completed games, I have kept them twice and exiled them. In the four games that I have running at various stages, I will likely continue to base my decision on what that Inquisitor thinks about the Wardens. That's the only criteria required to make the choice. Meta knowledge need not be considered at all, and while there's nothing wrong with it, at least use actual history, instead of "everyone that's not a Warden that fights darkspawn is going to die". That is historically inaccurate. I know, I got a letter from Zevran through the War Table. Last I knew, he's not a Warden.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Remember Val Gamord? The town is completely destroyed if you exile the Wardens while you can save it if you keep them. Already you have indications exiling them was bad. Wonder how the wardens will tie into the next dlc

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There's also the little plot hole of the herb for the kennel master in Ostagar that cured the mabari of infection. The main times that we see people dying as a result of the taint, or even being infected by it are "drive the point home" plot points in Ostagar, Ruck, the Elf that was with the DE, and the DE Warden, and Wesley in DA II. The point you're overlooking is that the entirety of the army on the field in Ostagar weren't Wardens, only a very small percentage of them. As in any of the Blights, those ancient treaties brought plenty of non Wardens in for the fight against the darkspawn, at the Battle of Denerim anyway, but the majority of the army on the field in Ostagar were just regular soldiers, not Wardens.

Those are the only times we see it. There's a soldier at Ostagar who heavily implies it's happening offscreen with his line "If you get their blood on you you might as well just slit your throat," and there's supposed to be cases of people being Tainted on the surface in the Anderfels, since the darkspawn that participated in the Blight there were never really irradicated. Not to mention you forgot one of the "drive the point home" plot points in Inquisition that you see if you recruit the mages. (Felix Alexius.)

[FALCONGTX]

The problem is, if we take your statement about what happens when you fight darkspawn as literal, is that after 100 years, there wouldn't be anyone left, would there? The watch you mention in Emprise? That's a Warden stronghold, hence all the Warden stuff in it, such as the statues. It wouldn't be surprising to find Warden stuff in there. My entire history in this thread will demonstrate one thing: there is no right or wrong answer to Adamant, it is on the Inquisitor of the hour to make whatever choice they deem acceptable at the time the decision is made.

Yes, I have looked at the motivations, and the romanticism that some use to defend keeping them. Yes, I have pointed out the contradictions in history, purely from the games on my part, and what people post, such as "nobody but wardens can fight darkspawn", which would mean that the Legion of the Dead is comprised entirely of Wardens. I have pointed out that the treaties we are sent into the Wilds to get are ancient, and I have postulated that they were likely drawn up after the first blight, even though that is pure speculation on my part, meaning that non-Wardens have been fighting blights since the very first one. If it were any where near as virulent as you're trying to portray it here, there would be no Thedas to stop blights for. Infected people would infect other people etc., and everyone's dead.

In three completed games, I have kept them twice and exiled them. In the four games that I have running at various stages, I will likely continue to base my decision on what that Inquisitor thinks about the Wardens. That's the only criteria required to make the choice. Meta knowledge need not be considered at all, and while there's nothing wrong with it, at least use actual history, instead of "everyone that's not a Warden that fights darkspawn is going to die". That is historically inaccurate. I know, I got a letter from Zevran through the War Table. Last I knew, he's not a Warden.

No you just exaggerated my statement. Without Wardens not all will be dead but many will be tainted while fighting DS. For example: village A in Orlais near entrance to deep roads were attacked by DS - now if Wardens are not presented(exiled) the ones who must deal DS will be or Inqusition or Orlesian army and both of this factions have high risk of being infected by blight and even spreading it further(like in Crestwood). If Wardens are presented(joined) they will continue to do their "routine" work and their outpost near village A and will be first ones to react - have nearly same percentage(as previosly said two factions) of dead and wounded but having zero on infecteted one. And no knowledge about Wadrens being immune to taint and them having outpost near all major DS threat zone is not meta it's common knowledge in Thedas.

 

About LotD - just look at their armor even rogues like Sigrun are wear full plate armor to minimize chance of geting infected. Moreover every member of Legion of the Dead is considered as good as dead - they are themselfs consider selfs as dead, this is speaks much about faction(non GW) that fights DS. And of course Legion of the Dead is weak argument agains GW considering on surface there is no organisation and Maker know how long it will take to make one. And all this ignoring the fact that GW>LotD in fighting against DS. 

No Valeska's Watch is not just Warden keep in Empris - it was built by Wardens on entrance of deep roads in order to prevent DS from coming on surface - just one of another thing that Wardens do when they don't kill AD.

 

I don't know about rest but i am looking on GW with pragmatism - they are best solution of Blights that Thedas has atm(ignoring the fact they are ones who preventing DS from coming to surface in general), they has 5 stoped Blights in their credibility account against killing one Divine(under control) - who never been known as doing good for Thedas at all(not in my memory at least). So if Inquisitor is not zealot or has terrible memory and lack common sense ang knowledge about GW he will choose joinage for sake south(Orlais and Ferelden)

And last it is funny that you who is against usage of metaknowledge in roleplay are referencing Zevran as argument where he is walking example of "Gameplay before Lore" practice, from lore standpoint it is plausible that he was lucky enough to never came in contact with the Blight.(same goes for any other non GW companion) So the way Zevran(and any other non GW companions) evades taint does not work for theoretical factions that you suggested to fight DS instead of GW. They unlike companions can and will be blighted for sake of lore's credibility.

[Korva]

Blights will never end unless the Darkspawn and OG are destroyed forever. If I exile any GW and end up with bad blood between the Inquisition and them, it would only make is more difficult if they are needed for future Blights. You need to find a compromise, and that's what's missing from that choice. When you banish them, it should be until Corypheus is defeated, not permanently.

 

Yes, the game should have been explicit about that, and even that would leave the additional weirdness of presuming to banish anyone from someone else's lands, potentially allied rulers or no.

 

Like with some other binary choices, I too missed a more nuanced look at the situation. As I said before, my Inquisitor's choice to keep them around had nothing to do with viewing them as allies. First, she doesn't trust Weisshaupt. Second, stopping the Wardens cost the Inquisition a lot of time, resources and lives. She expects the Wardens to pay for every moment, every copper and every drop of blood with everything they have, anywhere it is safe to use them (i.e. nowhere near her or where she might expect Corypheus to show up). She's generally the second-chances-you-can-build-a-new-life-with-us-if-you-really-want-to-change type, influenced both by her faith and by our friendly neighbourhood spirit of Compassion, but at this point she really was at the end of her tether. So it was a little galling when the game (and more precisely my whole away team i.e. Cole, Cassandra and Solas) apparently treated my choice as if I was naively handwaving the Wardens' crimes away in favour of buddying up with them.

[andy6915]

And last it is funny that you who is against usage of metaknowledge in roleplay are referencing Zevran as argument where he is walking example of "Gameplay before Lore" practice, from lore standpoint it is plausible that he was lucky enough to never came in contact with the Blight.(same goes for any other non GW companion) So the way Zevran(and any other non GW companions) evades taint does not work for theoretical factions that you suggested to fight DS instead of GW. They unlike companions can and will be blighted for sake of lore's credibility.

 

He might not be "gameplay before lore", actually. Leliana isn't, when it comes to the blight. Remember how Leliana was the test experiment in the bad future because she had a ridiculous amount of resistance to it despite not even being a warden? Or the Dalish warden before becoming an actual warden? Some people just have a very high resistance to it, while some go from healthy to nearly dead in the span of half an hour (like Wesley). I just assume that Zevran is another one of those high-resistance people, just like the other rogue in the party.

[robertthebard]

No you just exaggerated my statement. Without Wardens not all will be dead but many will be tainted while fighting DS. For example: village A in Orlais near entrance to deep roads were attacked by DS - now if Wardens are not presented(exiled) the ones who must deal DS will be or Inqusition or Orlesian army and both of this factions have high risk of being infected by blight and even spreading it further(like in Crestwood). If Wardens are presented(joined) they will continue to do their "routine" work and their outpost near village A and will be first ones to react - have nearly same percentage(as previosly said two factions) of dead and wounded but having zero on infecteted one. And no knowledge about Wadrens being immune to taint and them having outpost near all major DS threat zone is not meta it's common knowledge in Thedas.
 
About LotD - just look at their armor even rogues like Sigrun are wear full plate armor to minimize chance of geting infected. Moreover every member of Legion of the Dead is considered as good as dead - they are themselfs consider selfs as dead, this is speaks much about faction(non GW) that fights DS. And of course Legion of the Dead is weak argument agains GW considering on surface there is no organisation and Maker know how long it will take to make one. And all this ignoring the fact that GW>LotD in fighting against DS. 

No Valeska's Watch is not just Warden keep in Empris - it was built by Wardens on entrance of deep roads in order to prevent DS from coming on surface - just one of another thing that Wardens do when they don't kill AD.
 
I don't know about rest but i am looking on GW with pragmatism - they are best solution of Blights that Thedas has atm(ignoring the fact they are ones who preventing DS from coming to surface in general), they has 5 stoped Blights in their credibility account against killing one Divine(under control) - who never been known as doing good for Thedas at all(not in my memory at least). So if Inquisitor is not zealot or has terrible memory and lack common sense ang knowledge about GW he will choose joinage for sake south(Orlais and Ferelden)

They do not prevent the darkspawn from coming to the surface, and they never have. You don't seem to understand the scope of the Deep Roads, or get the idea of potentially how many darkspawn there are. With this is mind, let's look at Clarel's plan: We're going to stop blights by killing the last of the archdemons. Hey, that's a good theory, right? It might end blights, but let's look at the rest of your motivation for keeping them: They keep darkspawn from coming to the surface. Except even if you keep them, the darkspawn attack that village. The only difference is the outcome. The dwarves do more in that vein than the Wardens do, and even they can't stop them all.

And last it is funny that you who is against usage of metaknowledge in roleplay are referencing Zevran as argument where he is walking example of "Gameplay before Lore" practice, from lore standpoint it is plausible that he was lucky enough to never came in contact with the Blight.(same goes for any other non GW companion) So the way Zevran(and any other non GW companions) evades taint does not work for theoretical factions that you suggested to fight DS instead of GW. They unlike companions can and will be blighted for sake of lore's credibility.

As I said, I got a letter from him on the War Table, and Leliana knows him, or, rather, can know him. When you're using her to track down the Hard in Highttown forgery, she contacts him. No metaknowledge required. I do wind up hearing from him because I recruited him as the HoF and he was loyal at his personal quest, and so stayed. That's part of the catalyst for hearing from him, but it doesn't require any meta knowledge on my part. He also doesn't act all chummy towards me, since he doesn't know me either. However, of the entire entourage of the HoF, only the Dalish Warden's friend ever becomes infected, and only Bethany or Carver can become infected in DA II, despite how many darkspawn you fight. However, and this is where you claim I'm exaggerating what you state, if this were the case, after 5 blights, there wouldn't be anyone left, would there? Ghouls are tainted, so anyone they attempt to eat and don't kill will become ghouls, and the cycle continues. This process does not require an archdemon. So they'd be busy making more of themselves between blights too.

Then there's Ostagar, and the treaties. Both of which mean that while you need Wardens to end blights, you don't need them to fight them. If they were invulnerable to darkspawn, then no matter what Loghain does, they'd survive. They can't survive because they're not invulnerable, they are "immune" to the taint, but only because they are already tainted. Which is, of course, why they can kill archdemons, according to the lore, but not why they are the only choice to fight darkspawn. The very existence of the treaties means that this isn't a factual claim, but a romantic one. As an aside to this, how many of the Inquisitor's companions become tainted? My mage has just finished clearing darkspawn from Valamar and from the Storm Coast. We haven't been to Adamant yet, so no Wardens to put on the job, and even if you have them, they're not available for that job. You fight through a crap ton of them in the Exalted Plains too, even after you do Adamant, no matter how you do Adamant, so again, you don't need them to fight them, just to end a blight, and there is no blight in Inquisition. Just the same kinds of raids that are suggested to happen since Origins.

[andy6915]

When you're using her to track down the Hard in Highttown forgery, she contacts him. No metaknowledge required.

 
Well that's absolutely false. She contacts the CROWS, not Zevran.
 
Here's all her participation in that entire questline, tell me where you see the word Zevran. And remember, Zevran hates the Crows and is busy killing the entire organization and they have bounties and bids on him... So they're most certainly not allies.
 

Leliana - 0:12:00

If this author has evaded the Merchants Guild, the Crows might be a better choice for investigating him.

Leliana - 0:48:00

A magistrate courier? He has to be involved in something else. Let's find out what.

Leliana - 0:48:00

If an assassin killed the magistrate, a word to the Crows might tell us who it was. They watch rivals carefully.

Leliana - 4:00:00

Someone got in and out of Skyhold without being seen. The cipher in the book might lead us to them.

Leliana – 8:00:00

We don't know if the guard was involved in the crime. Our agents can track down the knife's source.

Leliana – 8:00:00

We don't know if the guard was involved in the crime. Our agents can track down the knife's source.

Leliana - 6:24:00

We should capture Worthy ourselves and question him about how he infiltrated Skyhold.

[FALCONGTX]

They do not prevent the darkspawn from coming to the surface, and they never have. You don't seem to understand the scope of the Deep Roads, or get the idea of potentially how many darkspawn there are. With this is mind, let's look at Clarel's plan: We're going to stop blights by killing the last of the archdemons. Hey, that's a good theory, right? It might end blights, but let's look at the rest of your motivation for keeping them: They keep darkspawn from coming to the surface

 

They do in fact, Valeska's Watch is undeniable proof of that i suggest you reread it's codex entry. 

 

Except even if you keep them, the darkspawn attack that village. The only difference is the outcome. The dwarves do more in that vein than the Wardens do, and even they can't stop them all.

 

Wait what? Since when dwarwes and LofD are opperating on surface on regular basis? And reason why both GW and LofD has hard times dealing with DS is lack of manpower because you know almost nobody in Thedas nor under it is eager to fight darkspawn and that's why GW have right of conscription and LofD accepting even castles and criminals.

 

As I said, I got a letter from him on the War Table, and Leliana knows him, or, rather, can know him. When you're using her to track down the Hard in Highttown forgery, she contacts him. No metaknowledge required. I do wind up hearing from him because I recruited him as the HoF and he was loyal at his personal quest, and so stayed. That's part of the catalyst for hearing from him, but it doesn't require any meta knowledge on my part. He also doesn't act all chummy towards me, since he doesn't know me either. However, of the entire entourage of the HoF, only the Dalish Warden's friend ever becomes infected, and only Bethany or Carver can become infected in DA II, despite how many darkspawn you fight. However, and this is where you claim I'm exaggerating what you state, if this were the case, after 5 blights, there wouldn't be anyone left, would there? Ghouls are tainted, so anyone they attempt to eat and don't kill will become ghouls, and the cycle continues. This process does not require an archdemon. So they'd be busy making more of themselves between blights too.

 

Because while fighting DS there is lesser than 100% chance of getting infected but this chance always is higher than 0% because of this variable Zevran or any other "person" can fight DS effectively - when there is plot demand(set by author, game developers, ect.) and when same plot demands this varible infects Carver, Bethany, DE, Tamlen. Thing is that you cannot apply this varrible to lore for example: Zevran Arainai fights darkspawn(s) kills it(them) and with his agility of a crow evades any possble contact with the taint - is plasible statment, while: Inquisition(or Imperial) army fights with darkspawns defeats them and by bliss of the Maker no one were tainted - it's a b*llsh*t.

 

Then there's Ostagar, and the treaties. Both of which mean that while you need Wardens to end blights, you don't need them to fight them. If they were invulnerable to darkspawn, then no matter what Loghain does, they'd survive. They can't survive because they're not invulnerable, they are "immune" to the taint, but only because they are already tainted. Which is, of course, why they can kill archdemons, according to the lore, but not why they are the only choice to fight darkspawn. The very existence of the treaties means that this isn't a factual claim, but a romantic one. As an aside to this, how many of the Inquisitor's companions become tainted? My mage has just finished clearing darkspawn from Valamar and from the Storm Coast. We haven't been to Adamant yet, so no Wardens to put on the job, and even if you have them, they're not available for that job. You fight through a crap ton of them in the Exalted Plains too, even after you do Adamant, no matter how you do Adamant, so again, you don't need them to fight them, just to end a blight, and there is no blight in Inquisition. Just the same kinds of raids that are suggested to happen since Origins.

 

You are ignoring the fact that these treaties were in Ostagar in Warden out post near(relatively) entrance to the deep roads - which again means that they do in fact fight DS - or more right fighed before exile from Ferelden.

And what your PC does or companions do means nothing in front of "gameplay before lore" or you gonna to tell me how you mage miraculous resurected after being slan by some mob when Cassandra(or anyone else from party) just did "something" to your body?
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andy6915, no this is definitely "gameplay before lore" Leliana showed resistance after being tainted(in Redcliff) while as they are now Zevran, Leliana or any other companion(excluding Carver/Bethany) never being tainted, nor did contact with taint directly.

[Sunnie]

So, moving past all the circular supposition and postulation there are but only a few facts.

• Anyone can kill darkspawn
• Wardens are only required to kill an Archdemon
• There were 7 Old Gods (Named Dragons worshiped by Tevinter), they are corrupted into Archdemons and cause a blight
• There have been 5 blights
• There are still 2 sleeping Old Gods left, IOW, 2 more blights to come.

 

SO, with the facts, its easy to see that exiling the southern Wardens would be a huge mistake should another blight occur. Keeping them within the Inquisition gives us the opportunity to fix things that are wrong with the order, and theres quite a bit that needs changed.

[FALCONGTX]

 Sunnie, with one correction: Anyone can kill darkspawn but only Wardens have zero chance of becoming ghouls or dying from taint(until calling).

[Sunnie]

 Sunnie, with one correction: Anyone can kill darkspawn but only Wardens have zero chance of becoming ghouls or dying from taint(until calling).

 

That's irrelevant, doesn't change anything about the fact.

[ask_again_later]

Because if you let them stay you can save many lives. Quests where you send out troops to fight darkspawn will always fail if you don't have the Grey Wardens with you.

[FALCONGTX]

That's irrelevant, doesn't change anything about the fact.

That's most relevant point actually: majority of common folks will not want to fight DS with risk of being infected when there is Order members of wich can do it istead of them with no such risk, with Blight as exception when GW physically can't deal with DS horde - because of it's mass. This is one major reason to keep them in south, and not Blight - just look at DAO intro and listen what Duncan says on this matter.

[robertthebard]

They do in fact, Valeska's Watch is undeniable proof of that i suggest you reread it's codex entry.

Then how does that village come under attack if we keep the Wardens? Is it in the Deep Roads? Facts from fantasy here, there are not enough Wardens on Thedas to do as you suggest.
 
 

Wait what? Since when dwarwes and LofD are opperating on surface on regular basis? And reason why both GW and LofD has hard times dealing with DS is lack of manpower because you know almost nobody in Thedas nor under it is eager to fight darkspawn and that's why GW have right of conscription and LofD accepting even castles and criminals.

Perhaps you're confused as to where the darkspawn and dwarves all live? In the Deep Roads, both factions live there, and both factions war constantly. This got more than a passing mention in Origins.
 
 

Because while fighting DS there is lesser than 100% chance of getting infected but this chance always is higher than 0% because of this variable Zevran or any other "person" can fight DS effectively - when there is plot demand(set by author, game developers, ect.) and when same plot demands this varible infects Carver, Bethany, DE, Tamlen. Thing is that you cannot apply this varrible to lore for example: Zevran Arainai fights darkspawn(s) kills it(them) and with his agility of a crow evades any possble contact with the taint - is plasible statment, while: Inquisition(or Imperial) army fights with darkspawns defeats them and by bliss of the Maker no one were tainted - it's a b*llsh*t.

Really? What about all the Darkspawn we fought in the Exalted Plains, or the Storm Coast? How many companions died to the taint, or became ghouls?
 
 

You are ignoring the fact that these treaties were in Ostagar in Warden out post near(relatively) entrance to the deep roads - which again means that they do in fact fight DS - or more right fighed before exile from Ferelden.
And what your PC does or companions do means nothing in front of "gameplay before lore" or you gonna to tell me how you mage miraculous resurected after being slan by some mob when Cassandra(or anyone else from party) just did "something" to your body?
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andy6915, no this is definitely "gameplay before lore" Leliana showed resistance after being tainted(in Redcliff) while as they are now Zevran, Leliana or any other companion(excluding Carver/Bethany) never being tainted, nor did contact with taint directly.

I'm not ignoring anything, in fact, I brought the treaties up. They are referred to as "ancient". This means that they are very old, and likely predate the Wardens being exiled from Ferelden. How can I bringing them up equate I'm ignoring them? What's got you flustered here, apparently, is that they are used to "force" non Wardens into fighting against darkspawn, and have been used for that purpose since, and this is speculation on my part, after the first blight.

The gameplay you reference for your example is listed as being knocked unconscious, in game. I don't have to explain anything there. Just like I don't have to assume that exiling the Wardens means Thedas is doomed if there's another Blight, because, quite frankly, there have been 5 blights to date, and we're still able to play there. There is nothing reaching here. The Wardens didn't exist until the end of the First Blight, and yet, there is still a Thedas to defend from future blights. Thedas held the darkspawn from wiping out civilization for a full century, 100 years, and change with no Wardens. There is no where on Thedas that an Inquisitor that was so inclined could exile them to that it would take more than 100 years for them to get back, if getting back is what they'd even need to do, depending on where the Archdemon shows itself.

That's the point. Keeping them is fine, exiling them is fine. There is no wrong answer. However, "because blight" isn't valid, since Thedas has proven that it is capable of fighting darkspawn until the Wardens can kill the archdemon, and, with the treaties, Thedas is obligated to do so. Unless, of course, you're going to fall back to "but story", in which case I'll remind you: It's all "but story".

[robertthebard]

So, moving past all the circular supposition and postulation there are but only a few facts.

• Anyone can kill darkspawn
• Wardens are only required to kill an Archdemon
• There were 7 Old Gods (Named Dragons worshiped by Tevinter), they are corrupted into Archdemons and cause a blight
• There have been 5 blights
• There are still 2 sleeping Old Gods left, IOW, 2 more blights to come.

SO, with the facts, its easy to see that exiling the southern Wardens would be a huge mistake should another blight occur. Keeping them within the Inquisition gives us the opportunity to fix things that are wrong with the order, and theres quite a bit that needs changed.

You forgot one detail: There is no where in Thedas that we are aware of that is 100 years of travel time to anywhere else in Thedas. So keeping them, exiling them, it's all the same. Irony: You keep them, then accidentally kill them on the war table, is Thedas now doomed? You've killed all the Wardens, in your region, the ones you feel it is mandatory to keep, and then killed them. So is Thedas now doomed?