1570 réponses à ce sujet

[DarkSpiral]

The number of darkspawn encounters in DAI factor into my decision.  There's the 'spawn on the Storm Coast, the ruined outpost in Emprise du Lion, and Vallahan (I think that was its name) in the Hinterlands.  I'm more annoyed that we didn't have the option of making it clear to the remaining Wardens that the only reason they aren't being exiled is because I'd prefer they die than my own people, (who are not immune to the blight) than I am anything else.

[Sasie]

I think it's about time people accept that Alistair was a very bad Warden in Origins. Between the Last Flight and Inquisition it seems like if the Grey Wardens have a choice between sacrificing something they have or look for another way the the majority will always pick the sacrifice. They seem sort of obsessed with it. Clarel didn't even search for an explanation before she started cutting people up in a blood ritual and most of the wardens went willingly as well. They seem to be a pretty insane bunch.

Even Alistair admitted that they could be pretty extreme in the prologue but once Duncan died and he was on his own he forgot all that and tried to convince everyone that Warden's were about some higher ideal that no warden before or after shown. I find it a little annoying that we couldn't at least call Alistair out on his hero worship since it was so obvious from the start he had an idealistic view of the wardens.

[KaiserShep]

You can always pay Alistair back by leaving Cailan's body for the darkspawn to play with. U sad, Ali?

[Fardreamer]

The Wardens are the ideal heroes.  The whole world of Thedas believes that.  Wynne talks extensively about that.  Blackwall talks about how they can inspire just by being who they are.  They sacrifice all so others can live.

 

I realize it very hipster these days to bash what everyone knows is good, and it makes you feel somehow superior to question those who make you feel inferior... but it's just a joke.

 

The Wardens are the best part about the Dragon Age world, and the reason I got into it.  You run in to Wardens in Crestwood who are defending villagers, and beg the Inquisition to help where they can't.  You read about the Warden's defense in Emprise du Lion. 

 

Alistair was not the odd-Warden-out.  He's exactly what most of them are. 

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

You can always pay Alistair back by leaving Cailan's body for the darkspawn to play with. U sad, Ali?

Even Loghain got upset when you do that, which is funny since he hated his guts for being an incompetent king.

[Hazegurl]

There is no law inhibiting their use of blood magic or any means necessary to end a Blight. In DA:I they attempt to preempt a Blight using stupid methods and are unwittingly serving the Inquisitor's primary adversary.  Exiling them to regroup and allowing them back later, say, once Corypheus is defeated (as many in this thread have said) is really the opportune choice. Who's to say they aren't invited back later? What about the Inquisitor's decision made it a finality? I don't recall her saying 'for all time!", maybe she did, though. Don't recall.

The Joining is Blood magic and it's done as a preemptive measure, so is the magic used to seal Cory years ago. There are no restrictions in place when dealing with the Blight. Whether before or after.  My Warden allowed the Architect to live as a possible preemptive measure, and what was he using? Blood magic (he needed Warden Blood). There is nothing in any rule that states that GWs must handle Blights the way a ruler, country, law says they should. They didn't break any laws. You can say they were ethically wrong, and I agree. But they did what was within their right to do.  Also, exiling them without even knowing whether Cory's dragon is an archdemon and/or that Cory himself cannot begin a Blight is not the wisest choice, IMO. What if a Blight began? You would then have to hunt down the GWs and ask for their return.  It's better to keep the GWs at the Inquisition's side just in case I need to fling them at an Archdemon.

[errantknight]

You need wardens. Lots and lots of wardens. It only takes one to kill the archdemon, but the archdemon has to be fought to the point that can be done without that one warden accidently being killed. You also need them patrolling pretty much everywhere to kill the darkspawn that emerge from underground before they blight every living thing in their path.

 

I conscripted them last playthrough, but this time, I'm going to exile them. Logically speaking, Orlais is the last place they should be for their own wellbeing. Wouldn't have minded a chance to judge their leaders though.

[Father_Jerusalem]

The Wardens are the ideal heroes.  The whole world of Thedas believes that.  Wynne talks extensively about that.  Blackwall talks about how they can inspire just by being who they are.  They sacrifice all so others can live.

 

I realize it very hipster these days to bash what everyone knows is good, and it makes you feel somehow superior to question those who make you feel inferior... but it's just a joke.

 

The Wardens are the best part about the Dragon Age world, and the reason I got into it.  You run in to Wardens in Crestwood who are defending villagers, and beg the Inquisition to help where they can't.  You read about the Warden's defense in Emprise du Lion. 

 

Alistair was not the odd-Warden-out.  He's exactly what most of them are. 

 

You mean the Wardens hunting Alistair/Loghain/Stroud because he's the only who's like "Woah. Guys. Summoning demons is bad. Okay?"

 

To some people, Wardens are the ideal heroes.

 

To other people, Wardens are blood magic using demon summoners who swear allegiance to no kingdom save themselves, and who will do whatever it takes, be as ruthless as necessary, to get the results they want.

[Sasie]

The Wardens are the ideal heroes.  The whole world of Thedas believes that.  Wynne talks extensively about that.  Blackwall talks about how they can inspire just by being who they are.  They sacrifice all so others can live.

 

I realize it very hipster these days to bash what everyone knows is good, and it makes you feel somehow superior to question those who make you feel inferior... but it's just a joke.

 

The Wardens are the best part about the Dragon Age world, and the reason I got into it.  You run in to Wardens in Crestwood who are defending villagers, and beg the Inquisition to help where they can't.  You read about the Warden's defense in Emprise du Lion. 

 

Alistair was not the odd-Warden-out.  He's exactly what most of them are. 

Most of the people who idolize the Wardens are people who never meet them and Blackwall is a terrible example. Duncan was nothing like Alistair described to begin with. In the city elf origin Duncan gave Soris and Nelaros weapons and sent them into the keep to rescue the Tabris but when they all come back he only save the recruit he wanted from the guards,

If the warden doesn't turn herself over to the guard after almost getting raped he will leave Soris to rot in a dungeon. He could have taken both and let Soris go outside the city but Duncan only helped those he wanted. He wouldn't even interfered if he didn't need Tabris as a recruit. Not to mention what he does in the human noble origin.

In the last flight the wardens only rescued nobles/merchants and royalty from doomed cities and only those who could pay or had family connections that would benefit their war against the blight. All others were left to die. Then we have Avernus and Clarel. Both blood mages who did pretty vile things. As the Magister said, he didn't force Clarel into doing anything. She jumped at the chance of a demon army when she heard of it.

Wardens might ask others to rescue people but they rarely do it themselves. They wouldn't even save Betheny/Carver until Anders pulled some strings. Outside Origins and our own Wardens have we seen a single warden commander actually do any heroic thing at all to save the common people?

Edit: Also the woman in Crestwood who do end up inspired by the wardens is used as a blood sacrifice if she tried to join them. Very heroic people indeed.

[KaiserShep]

Even Loghain got upset when you do that, which is funny since he hated his guts for being an incompetent king.

My City Elf had a grand old time with that one. He crapped all over Alistair's wish for ceremony, and then had him executed in exchange for Loghain, then Loghain bit the big one so he could rise to become Hero of Ferelden.

[Beomer]

If you don't exile the Wardens you can use them in a series of pretty redeeming War Table missions which basically ends with all of them dying heroically fighting against demons and besieging fortresses of crazed Orlesian Lords or something (I don't remember the details). They serve the Inquisitor fearlessly and with absolute and unflinching obedience (as if anything else could even be imagined from the Wardens). Cullen sends their remains to Weisshaupt with full honour.

Furthermore after seeing as how that one lady Warden surrenders herself to the Inquisitions judgement shows what had been the gravity of their situation and how heavy the decision had sat upon them. The Inquisitors judgement when he lets her go free saying that Andraste forgives her sums it up very properly. It's like he asking whoever wants to judge the Wardens to come forward and list what Blights they have defeated to say that they have the right to punish the Wardens.

[skotie]

The Joining is Blood magic and it's done as a preemptive measure, so is the magic used to seal Cory years ago. There are no restrictions in place when dealing with the Blight. Whether before or after.  My Warden allowed the Architect to live as a possible preemptive measure, and what was he using? Blood magic (he needed Warden Blood). There is nothing in any rule that states that GWs must handle Blights the way a ruler, country, law says they should. They didn't break any laws. You can say they were ethically wrong, and I agree. But they did what was within their right to do.  Also, exiling them without even knowing whether Cory's dragon is an archdemon and/or that Cory himself cannot begin a Blight is not the wisest choice, IMO. What if a Blight began? You would then have to hunt down the GWs and ask for their return.  It's better to keep the GWs at the Inquisition's side just in case I need to fling them at an Archdemon.

All this talk about wardens and blood magic, sorry not to try to sound like a dick here but so what? It's a necessary evil, much like the chantry which also uses blood magic to track apostates, even though they never like to admit that. Sorry but I find it hard to condemn the wardens because they use blood magic to fight darkspawn, who else is actively doing anything about the darkspawn that appear on the surface not to mention the horde that just keeps growing underground?

 

Yep that horde just keeps getting bigger and bigger, you got two more blights to go! Keep ignoring the problem and have a little court murder amusement in Orlais in the meantime, I'm sure the darkspawn won't ever reach a point where they kill the last remaining dwarves then pour out onto the surface for one big neverending blight! I mean why worry about it until Thedas is in the middle of the actual zombie apocalypse.

[nekochan014]

The Wardens were desperate so their crazy decision was, in a way, understandable. Still, whether they regret their actions or not, it does not remove the fact that Cory could still control them. I'd rather have them as a known enemy than as an ally that has the potential to stab me in the back.

[MrTijger]

I found it a hard choice, on the one hand you have the Wardens who've abadoned all reason and sense in an attempt to save themselves and prevent future blights on the other hand, given the Wardens Keep story in DAO this isnt the first time the Wardens have gone to extremes and its referenced by Alistair as well that Wardens will obey no limits to get the job done.

 

Then there's the strategic issue, can you really afford to toss aside a group of hard fighting men and women who might be the only ones able to take down Corypheus dragon?

 

So, do you choose principle or pragmatism? I chose pragmatism thus far.

[MadMaximoff]

Grey Wardens got a serious character assassination in DAI.

 

Not really, some Grey Wardens are absolute scum of the Earth that were spared the headsmans axe by being conscripted, or simply pulled a "Blackwall"

 

Or rather should I say, what "Blackwall" intended to pull but didn't.

 

This is made apparent in Wardens Keep in Origins, the last Warden Commander before Duncan allowed Avernus to experiment on live test subjects and ended up becoming possessed by a Desire Demon with most of the Wardens in the keep becoming Abominations for over abuse of Blood Magic.

 

Also Exiling the Grey Wardens may "Seem" like a good idea, but you quickly find out it's quite the opposite.

[Lianaar]

All forces have strength and weaknesses. The Wardens too. They are precisely the thing you need against darkspawn. But they are easily influenced by the rare darkspawn masters out there.

I have exciled them, for my then active Inquisitor didn't have the time to deal with them, but didn't want to get rid of them at all. Just temporarily postponed dealing with them.

Possible reasons to keep them around
- keep your enemy near you (try looking if you can use the calling to track Cory and his moves, maybe they can sense him)

- try learning ways to stop calling
- use them as military and use their status and rights for helping the Inquisition

- make a new Templar like organisation, this time for the Wardens, not for the mages. Set a mage on each Warden seeing if they show symptoms of Cory's influence (yeah, nothing can go wrong here, can it )
...
Surely there are more.

There can be a new blight. And while technically speaking it is only the killing act that must be done by the Warden, it is better if there are enough around, just in case the dragon accidentally kills them before he succumbs to being anihilated
 

[Undead Han]

Read the codex entry on the First Blight.

 

Thedas needs Wardens.

[OsiriNara]

well the Grey Wardens were exiled from Fereldan and Cailan died partly because of that - when the Orlesian Grey Wardens were turned away at the border and such. Granted, the 5th Blight ended in only a year but that's all thanks to the HoF (well, more or less). What if the next Blight starts in Orlais and there's no such extraordinary Warden?

 

That's my reasoning anyway.

[Tamyn]

When I didn't exile them, they all died in war table missions. Exile seems a mercy!

[sylvanaerie]

There is the issue with what people are calling an Archdemon--it was a dead giveaway to me that it wasn't (as a player) since the option to tell the wardens to 'take a hike' existed in the first place.  In the first game I played, I conscripted them, but told them help out as far from Cory as possible.  He had them all under mind control (hence the preponderance of stupid that abounds among them), and as demonstrated at the Temple of Mythal, it was far better they stay away regardless.  On my second game I exiled them to see what differences that made to the world state.  

 

Of the two, I prefer just conscripting them and keeping them fighting darkspawn (which crop up with more frequency in an exiled situation) and helping out in other ways.

 

Not going to blame them for what they did while being mind controlled, but would prefer to minimize the damage they may potentially do.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

well the Grey Wardens were exiled from Fereldan and Cailan died partly because of that - when the Orlesian Grey Wardens were turned away at the border and such. 

Well, sort of...Maric allows the Grey Wardens to return to Fereldan, but you can say their presence remained light and the order was neither well known nor held in high regard by Ferelden's people (until the Fifth Blight was over). You could say if the Wardens didn't join the rebellion in the first place, and Ferelden's people are more welcoming, perhaps the Fifth Blight could end sooner and the Battle of Ostagar wouldn't be a disaster.

 

Cailan died because he stays in the front line with small unit of wardens. I wouldn't even blame the Wardens for that since Cailan is just being Cailan, an imbecile and complete moron who wants to play knight in the shining armor seeking glory instead of heeding Loghain's advice and warning. I'm not saying Loghain is innocent, but Cailain's fate is sealed when he decides to stay in the front line, even if Loghain didn't betray Cailan and order his troops to charge in it's already too late to save Cailan. That and Cailan didn't wait for the reinforcement from Orlais. 

[Undead Han]

When I didn't exile them, they all died in war table missions. Exile seems a mercy!

 

They can survive the war table missions. You just have to choose the right options.