1570 réponses à ce sujet

[DDJ]

True enough. He was also an experienced knight, had something to fight for (his family can be an obstacle, but can also be a motivator to fight for their safety) and at the beginning he was actually thrilled about becoming a Warden. Not unlike Ser Gilmore in the Human Noble Origin.

 

In comparison, Daveth seemed a worse candidate. A petty thief who only joined because the authorities wanted to hang him. Yet the more the quest advanced, the better he seemed as a possible Warden, and he underwent the ritual willingly and bravely. All in all, it looked like a warning for the player who plays the game for the first time: initial impressions are deceptive, you won't know what a person is capable of until the right time comes. Now, with our hindsight, Jory looks like the obviously bad candidate, but when we meet him for the first time? Not so much.

 

Also, I think that in the issue about Warden recruitment, we should take the legality aspect into account. Duncan can conscript anybody he wants as the law dictates, and the Right of Conscription can be invoked in every origin. That means that the PC is perfectly aware that once he or she is recruited, it's over. There is no turning back to their old lives. At best, they could run away and live their lives in secret (which fits Anders since he've always been a runaway, but the origins in DA:O paint a different picture for the PC, who at least has a background and people who care for them). Every Thedosian society, except the Qunari, accepts that legality. It's like taxes. And death.

 

Very well said.

[Mistic]

I totally agree.  What it does guarantee, once the truth comes out, is that you will likely have an angry warrior / mage who feels betrayed and will want his pound of flesh from those he feels betrayed him / her.  This has serious potential to create more enemies who will be far more dangerous to the Wardens than the darkspawn ever could be as they could destroy them from within.   

 

Not really. There are two things that have to be taken into account: legality and identity.

 

I've already explained my position about legality, which makes going back to their old lives legally impossible (think of draft-dodgers and defectors in the military, it's the same case). That brings us to the second point: identity.

 

After severing ties with their "origins", being in the Grey Wardens construct a new identity for their recruits. They have a clear goal, a well-established hierarchy which nevertheless can allow some flexibility and freedom, and they don't discriminate. They don't care if you are a man or a woman, a mage or an ex-Templar, an elf or a dwarf, a criminal or a paragon of virtue, a devout Andrastian or a pagan. Being a Grey Warden supersedes it all and in some cases it might be an improvement over their old lives. That balances the initial anger of some disgruntled recruits.

[DDJ]

Not really. There are two things that have to be taken into account: legality and identity.

 

I've already explained my position about legality, which makes going back to their old lives legally impossible (think of draft-dodgers and defectors in the military, it's the same case). That brings us to the second point: identity.

 

After severing ties with their "origins", being in the Grey Wardens construct a new identity for their recruits. They have a clear goal, a well-established hierarchy which nevertheless can allow some flexibility and freedom, and they don't discriminate. They don't care if you are a man or a woman, a mage or an ex-Templar, an elf or a dwarf, a criminal or a paragon of virtue, a devout Andrastian or a pagan. Being a Grey Warden supersedes it all and in some cases it might be an improvement over their old lives. That balances the initial anger of some disgruntled recruits.

 

Well put and well thought out.  Still, the key here is "some recruits."  Not everyone is recruited, and while the nondiscrimination is 150 percent admirable, the anger of the others will not be mitigated by nondiscrimination.  In the minds of some - emphasis on some - the anger will grow into a need to lash out, and who better to take it out on than the very people who put you in the situation.  There are thousands of ways to get your pound of flesh from the Wardens, and in a feudal culture there is no likelihood that some of them will go down that very path.  Moreover, as you say, "in some cases it might be an improvement over their old lives."  Improvement however is subjective, and when it is not an improvement the anger will come out.  Most particularly when you learn, recruit or conscript, that the first thing your new comrades did is to insure that you will die in agony and madness, possibly killing some of those very people that you care about.  As noted elsewhere, the Wardens are an absolute power unto themselves and protected by plot armor.  Needed or not, necessary or not, the Wardens are creating their own worst enemy.  Bioware simply has not, to date, dealt with that issue, but a renegade Warden bent on payback as opposed to Anders who is bent on escape is not something the Wardens want to deal with.  Nor has Bioware yet.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not really. There are two things that have to be taken into account: legality and identity.

 

I've already explained my position about legality, which makes going back to their old lives legally impossible (think of draft-dodgers and defectors in the military, it's the same case). That brings us to the second point: identity.

 

After severing ties with their "origins", being in the Grey Wardens construct a new identity for their recruits. They have a clear goal, a well-established hierarchy which nevertheless can allow some flexibility and freedom, and they don't discriminate. They don't care if you are a man or a woman, a mage or an ex-Templar, an elf or a dwarf, a criminal or a paragon of virtue, a devout Andrastian or a pagan. Being a Grey Warden supersedes it all and in some cases it might be an improvement over their old lives. That balances the initial anger of some disgruntled recruits.

 

Legality isn't issue because grey wardens doesn't seem to actively pursuit deserters and you could live relatively normal lives Alistair spend 3 not very quiet years being drunkard in Kirkwall while Anders 7 years as healer in Kirkwall.In contrast to very hard life of grey warden it is much more convenient alternative.

 

So you are saying that person will be fine with grey wardens destroying their life and screwing them over just because wardens are tolerant? Unless their life was worse before and had no other alternatives i don't see how that would help ease anger/hatred/resentment of person toward grey wardens.

[Mistic]

Well put and well thought out.  Still, the key here is "some recruits."  Not everyone is recruited, and while the nondiscrimination is 150 percent admirable, the anger of the others will not be mitigated by nondiscrimination.  In the minds of some - emphasis on some - the anger will grow into a need to lash out, and who better to take it out on than the very people who put you in the situation.  There are thousands of ways to get your pound of flesh from the Wardens, and in a feudal culture there is no likelihood that some of them will go down that very path.  Moreover, as you say, "in some cases it might be an improvement over their old lives."  Improvement however is subjective, and when it is not an improvement the anger will come out.  Most particularly when you learn, recruit or conscript, that the first thing your new comrades did is to insure that you will die in agony and madness, possibly killing some of those very people that you care about.  As noted elsewhere, the Wardens are an absolute power unto themselves and protected by plot armor.  Needed or not, necessary or not, the Wardens are creating their own worst enemy.  Bioware simply has not, to date, dealt with that issue, but a renegade Warden bent on payback as opposed to Anders who is bent on escape is not something the Wardens want to deal with.  Nor has Bioware yet.

 

Those are good points, and I'm sure there will always be 'problematic' recruits among the Wardens, yet they are not enough to say that they are "creating their own worst enemy".

 

Armies around the world haven't imploded by forcing conscripted soldiers into their ranks. Conscription was for centuries one of the most normal ways of building armies, and history teaches us that the real danger didn't come from disgruntled troops in them, but from mercenary armies (not just 'armies composed by mercenaries', but the general sense of 'armies composed by professional soldiers who are there for the money') who didn't get paid on time. Normative social conformity is even higher in hierarchical structures. Sad as it may be, they also have ways to impose social conformity by force if need be. Discipline in any military corps is enforced, not suggested.

 

The setting provides a counter-example in the Circles. They conscript mages, take them away from their families and make them live in a world full of rules and regulations, they have to undergo secret and possibly deadly rituals, and they are always at risk of losing themselves and suffer a terrible death. Yet the mages tend to be more rebellious. Why? Check the differences: there is no clear, definite and positive goal ('be a mage' versus 'protecting the world from darkspawn'), there is a difference of castes between enforcers and enforced ('we are mages, they are templars' versus 'we are all Grey Wardens'), the public image that they could have of the organization before joining is radically different ('mages are responsible of the worst disasters in Thedas' versus 'Grey Wardens have saved the world several times') and there are different alternatives ('Mages in Tevinter, Rivain and the Dalish have it different' versus 'Grey Warden laws are universally acknowledged'). And yet, even in the worst case scenario, there have been mages opposed to rupture and DA:I always ends with at least some mages returning to the Circle system.

 

Legality isn't issue because grey wardens doesn't seem to actively pursuit deserters and you could live relatively normal lives Alistair spend 3 not very quiet years being drunkard in Kirkwall while Anders 7 years as healer in Kirkwall.In contrast to very hard life of grey warden it is much more convenient alternative.

 

Ah, but bear in mind that I didn't rule out the option of becoming a runaway (indeed, I mentioned Anders as an example of that), just that their return to their old lives would be impossible... which is actually Anders' and Drunk!Alistair's case.

 

Also, as you conveniently point out, those whose resentment is too high have a better chance at defecting and living as runaways than staging some kind of rebellion.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ah, but bear in mind that I didn't rule out the option of becoming a runaway (indeed, I mentioned Anders as an example of that), just that their return to their old lives would be impossible... which is actually Anders' and Drunk!Alistair's case.

 

Also, as you conveniently point out, those whose resentment is too high have a better chance at defecting and living as runaways than staging some kind of rebellion.

 

Problem lies in that not everyone will want to just escape and live normal life, some will want revenge for destroying their former life and separating them from loved ones. Just look at mages many of mages instead just escaping and living normally turn into blood mages and start act against templars out of hate toward them.Im not necessarily talking about rebellion but for example exposing warden secrets to the public or allying themselves with wardens enemies (like for example architect).

 

Realistically speaking grey wardens would create many Berengars with way they work

Spoiler

Berengar is witcher that hated witchers for destroying his life and aided their enemy in stealing their secrets

[Mistic]

Problem lies in that not everyone will want to just escape and live normal life, some will want revenge for destroying their former life and separating them from loved ones. Just look at mages many of mages instead just escaping and living normally turn into blood mages and start act against templars out of hate toward them.Im not necessarily talking about rebellion but for example exposing warden secrets to the public or allying themselves with wardens enemies (like for example architect).

 

Realistically speaking grey wardens would create many Berengars with way they work

Spoiler

Berengar is witcher that hated witchers for destroying his life and aided their enemy in stealing their secrets

 

That is a good point and, yes, I could see a character like that appearing. I don't expect more of the Grey Wardens in the next game, but we know that sooner or later there will be a game set in the Anderfels. If we are lucky, we might get our chance to see more sides of the Wardens then.

[diaspora2k5]

I feel like people are getting too hung up on Jory. During the mage-templar "war" Weisshaupt took in and recruited both Mages and Templars trying to get away from the conflict and made to my recollection no attempt to put them through the joining. If anything they were wary of making any of them do it.

[DDJ]

Those are good points, and I'm sure there will always be 'problematic' recruits among the Wardens, yet they are not enough to say that they are "creating their own worst enemy".

 

Armies around the world haven't imploded by forcing conscripted soldiers into their ranks. Conscription was for centuries one of the most normal ways of building armies, and history teaches us that the real danger didn't come from disgruntled troops in them, but from mercenary armies (not just 'armies composed by mercenaries', but the general sense of 'armies composed by professional soldiers who are there for the money') who didn't get paid on time. Normative social conformity is even higher in hierarchical structures. Sad as it may be, they also have ways to impose social conformity by force if need be. Discipline in any military corps is enforced, not suggested.

 

The setting provides a counter-example in the Circles. They conscript mages, take them away from their families and make them live in a world full of rules and regulations, they have to undergo secret and possibly deadly rituals, and they are always at risk of losing themselves and suffer a terrible death. Yet the mages tend to be more rebellious. Why? Check the differences: there is no clear, definite and positive goal ('be a mage' versus 'protecting the world from darkspawn'), there is a difference of castes between enforcers and enforced ('we are mages, they are templars' versus 'we are all Grey Wardens'), the public image that they could have of the organization before joining is radically different ('mages are responsible of the worst disasters in Thedas' versus 'Grey Wardens have saved the world several times') and there are different alternatives ('Mages in Tevinter, Rivain and the Dalish have it different' versus 'Grey Warden laws are universally acknowledged'). And yet, even in the worst case scenario, there have been mages opposed to rupture and DA:I always ends with at least some mages returning to the Circle system.

 

 

Ah, but bear in mind that I didn't rule out the option of becoming a runaway (indeed, I mentioned Anders as an example of that), just that their return to their old lives would be impossible... which is actually Anders' and Drunk!Alistair's case.

 

Also, as you conveniently point out, those whose resentment is too high have a better chance at defecting and living as runaways than staging some kind of rebellion.

 

You are absolutely correct of course except you overlooked (or I overlooked one point in your response) one thing.  No army past or present that I have heard of has embraced the Wardens' drink or die philosophy makes that person into a ghoul.  If you were rich and powerful with a loyal base and were conscripted into the Wardens they are in a position to cause great harm - spreading secrets, ambushing couriers, destroying garrisons murdering couriers etc.  In short, they have the potential to make the Wardens' avowed mission much more miserable.  Please keep in mind that there will be those who run away and hide which is fine, but there are those in feudal times who have the resources, ability and mettle to launch a war on the Wardens, and if it done cleverly by an able commander such as a PO'd HoF should they set their mind to it.   Just a thought.  

[GoldenGail3]

False , most grey wardens in Inquisition weren't by any mean brainwashed or controled by Corypheus just shown went with one of most idiotic and dangerous plans in entire series.
 
 

Yeah; they were... And yeah; the GW are idiots when it came to the Blight (I mean; really? You listen to a Tevinter Magister, Clarel?) But yeah; they do anything to end Blights; and yet they are fool hardy enough to come up with a plan involving Blood Magic? No wonder why Hawke was so grumpy about in the first place...

(Despite my Canon Hawke being a Male Snarky Mage who just so happened to be a Blood Mage himself.. )

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yeah; they were... And yeah; the GW are idiots when it came to the Blight (I mean; really? You listen to a Tevinter Magister, Clarel?) But yeah; they do anything to end Blights; and yet they are fool hardy enough to come up with a plan involving Blood Magic? No wonder why Hawke was so grumpy about in the first place...

(Despite my Canon Hawke being a Male Snarky Mage who just so happened to be a Blood Mage himself.. )

They already use something that can arguably be considered Blood Magic, because that specific bit of magic-with-blood-in-it is vitally necessary. And they do apparently use it in other ways, just because the darkspawn are a threat serious enough to resort to it. I seem to recall a whole lot being made of their use of Blood Magic, but it seems to me that it might be in-character for a Warden to respond to that by laughing in the accuser's face.

 

As for this specific bit, where they take it further than any sane man would do... this situation is not sane. Everyone who will hear the Calling is hearing the Calling, as far as they can tell. It is unclear how far the spell reached, but they thought to contact Tevinter, so presumably they sent letters to closer nations: either the closer nations' Wardens were hearing the Calling or the letters Clarel sent were intercepted. (We don't know the former to be impossible, and we know the Venatori are smart enough to do the latter as that's why we need to go through the Winter Palace plot instead of sending Celene a warning that the Venatori intend to kill her.) They don't know what's causing it and therefore can't know that it won't effect anyone they quickly put through the Joining to replace them. Unless they tried that, in which case the plan would fall apart unless Nightmare quickly added them to the spell. They know that the Joining is the current way of handling a potentially apocalyptic threat. And when they start looking for an answer in the seat of magical power (say what you will about the Tevinters, but they benefit from the Blights not ending the world and they have the best mages in it to the best of public-domain knowledge) they get Venatori due to the Venatori having advance notice that they should expect to be asked this question and should have the answer they do.

[diaspora2k5]

Clarel didn't even tell Weisshaupt what she intended to do. There's a reason they sent Templars they recruited into Orlais to investigate the disappearances. I don't think her actions damn the entire Warden organization.

 

edit: Vigil's Keep didn't join Clarel either AFAIK. Vigil's Keep sends them a letter requesting resources for fighting Sylvans while the Orlesians went dark.

 

So what we know so far:

1. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens were hearing the Calling.
2. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens stopped communicating with Weisshaupt
3. Weisshaupt sent untainted Warden recruits to Orlais- former Templars to investigate the disappearances of Orlesian Wardens.
4. Vigil's Keep sent a letter requesting resources to deal with Sylvans so the Ferelden Warden Commander was still active (whomever they may be) and still talking to Weisshaupt even though Clarel had vanished.

From the above, what we know is that the Orlesian group were the only ones involved in the demon summoning plan. She either didn't tell Weisshaupt about all of them hearing, didn't care to tell them, or had her messages intercepted by Venatori. The Fereldens meanwhile were... fighting Sylvans. Maybe darkspawn too but yeah it was business as usual for them.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Clarel didn't even tell Weisshaupt what she intended to do. There's a reason they sent Templars they recruited into Orlais to investigate the disappearances. I don't think her actions damn the entire Warden organization.

 

edit: Vigil's Keep didn't join Clarel either AFAIK. Vigil's Keep sends them a letter requesting resources for fighting Sylvans while the Orlesians went dark.

 

So what we know so far:

1. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens were hearing the Calling.
2. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens stopped communicating with Weisshaupt
3. Weisshaupt sent untainted Warden recruits to Orlais- former Templars to investigate the disappearances of Orlesian Wardens.
4. Vigil's Keep sent a letter requesting resources to deal with Sylvans so the Ferelden Warden Commander was still active (whomever they may be) and still talking to Weisshaupt even though Clarel had vanished.

From the above, what we know is that the Orlesian group were the only ones involved in the demon summoning plan. She either didn't tell Weisshaupt about all of them hearing, didn't care to tell them, or had her messages intercepted by Venatori. The Fereldens meanwhile were... fighting Sylvans. Maybe darkspawn too but yeah it was business as usual for them.

The title used to describe the ruler of Amaranthine was "Arl" rather than "Warden-Commander," which I thought was odd. I also thought it was weird that there was an Arl of Amaranthine despite it being specified that the Wardens had all disappeared and no exceptions except Blackwall being mentioned. What I'd decided must have been the case was that Amaranthine had been returned to normal, and a noble arl had been appointed to replace the Warden one. Whether this happened before or after the Wardens disappeared I don't think is specified, and in fact so far as I know there's nothing besides those plotholes to support it, but it seems the most likely absent other evidence.

[Bardox9]

Clarel didn't even tell Weisshaupt what she intended to do. There's a reason they sent Templars they recruited into Orlais to investigate the disappearances. I don't think her actions damn the entire Warden organization.

 

edit: Vigil's Keep didn't join Clarel either AFAIK. Vigil's Keep sends them a letter requesting resources for fighting Sylvans while the Orlesians went dark.

 

So what we know so far:

1. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens were hearing the Calling.
2. Clarel and the Orlesian Wardens stopped communicating with Weisshaupt
3. Weisshaupt sent untainted Warden recruits to Orlais- former Templars to investigate the disappearances of Orlesian Wardens.
4. Vigil's Keep sent a letter requesting resources to deal with Sylvans so the Ferelden Warden Commander was still active (whomever they may be) and still talking to Weisshaupt even though Clarel had vanished.

From the above, what we know is that the Orlesian group were the only ones involved in the demon summoning plan. She either didn't tell Weisshaupt about all of them hearing, didn't care to tell them, or had her messages intercepted by Venatori. The Fereldens meanwhile were... fighting Sylvans. Maybe darkspawn too but yeah it was business as usual for them.

Excellent presentation. Interesting info. Ultimately irrelevant to the Exile decision.

 

Either the Wardens (at least some part of them) were working with, or enthralled by, the Venatori and by extension Corypheus when they killed the Divine and tore open the Veil allowing a flood of demons to pour into the world. Either way, allowing them to remain on the field endangers everyone. Including themselves. What do you suppose will happen when it becomes widely known that it was the Wardens in the Temple that day? The faithful will demand the Divine be avenged. At best, the Wardens would have been exiled by Orlais and Fereldan anyway. At worst, there could have been an exhalted march against the Order. Never mind the ramifications for the Inquisition should you bring them into your forces.

 

This is not a Blight. The risk is not necessary. Send them away and deal with their latest sh^t storm when the sky isn't falling.

[ModernAcademic]

False , most grey wardens in Inquisition weren't by any mean brainwashed or controled by Corypheus just shown went with one of most idiotic and dangerous plans in entire series.

 

 

 

To be honest if not Duncan stupidity to play Yes-man to one of biggest idiots in Ferelden, Alistair and HoF wouldn't end as last wardens in Ferelden and good chance they wouldn't be framed.

 

Realistically speaking i find conscription in orgainsation like wardens counterproductive, why because wardens require sacrifice if person isn't ready to die what is point having such person as warden anyway , another thing is that grey wardens have a lot of secrets and giving them to people that hate you isn't very good idea. 

 

My,my. Some people have a remarkably short memory.

 

The Warden mages were controlled by blood magic, as Livius Erimond demonstrated to the Inquisitor in the Tevinter ritual tower.

 

Hands up; hand down.

 

And anyone who disagreed with Clarel was expelled or threatened by their colleagues, just like Loghain was. And why?

Because all the Wardens thought they were ABOUT TO DIE.

 

The false Calling, emitted by the Nightmare demon, remember? It's like feeling excrutiating pain everyday because all of a sudden, you have terminal cancer. You don't think rationally, you just DO whatever you have to do before you die.

 

 

So it was either to follow her lead and build a demon army with the purpose of killing the last 2 Old Gods or every Warden thought he/she would be dead in a matter of days, with no one to stop a future Blight.

[straykat]

I have too much firsthand experience with the Wardens to really ever take this choice seriously. It's a non-choice to me. I don't really like the Wardens, but I can't exile them.

 

I guess I can roleplay ignorance from a character's point of view, but it doesn't sit well with me. If I were to do that though, I'd still take into account stories of the HoF or the Orlesian Warden, from my Inquisitor's point of view. Maybe they provide inspiration to not write the whole group off. Not to mention someone like Stroud sacrificing himself would be redemptive too.

[VorexRyder]

All Wardens have nightmares of the DS, The Calling is when said nightmares stop being disturbing and start becoming seductive, that's what scared them, they were being enthralled by the Taint as far as they knew. The GWs were both under unnatural mental influence and the belief that they were about to go extinct as an organization. Mind Control doesn't have to be obvious meat puppeting, it can simply compel you and/or bias you towards certain actions/ideas.

[TheKomandorShepard]

My,my. Some people have a remarkably short memory.

 

The Warden mages were controlled by blood magic, as Livius Erimond demonstrated to the Inquisitor in the Tevinter ritual tower.

 

Hands up; hand down.

 

And anyone who disagreed with Clarel was expelled or threatened by their colleagues, just like Loghain was. And why?

Because all the Wardens thought they were ABOUT TO DIE.

 

The false Calling, emitted by the Nightmare demon, remember? It's like feeling excrutiating pain everyday because all of a sudden, you have terminal cancer. You don't think rationally, you just DO whatever you have to do before you die.

 

 

So it was either to follow her lead and build a demon army with the purpose of killing the last 2 Old Gods or every Warden thought he/she would be dead in a matter of days, with no one to stop a future Blight.

Epic fail , only small amount of wardens were controlled by Corypheus and mostly thanks to their stupidity ,majority of grey wardens had free will Erimond made it perfectly clear.

 

So that is pretty much showing that majority of grey wardens supported Clarel otherwise she wouln't have power to force it on others.Also no false calling isn't excuse for extreme stupidity and outright insanity.

 

No i do think rationally because my emotions don't take over me , first of all any sane person wouldn't go with plan to summon demon army what would be akin to nuking whole thedas killing everyone in it just to get darkspawn.

 

So what they would die , who cares you can still easily make new wardens, if they aren't ready to die they shouldn't be wardens in first place .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Realistically speaking i find conscription in orgainsation like wardens counterproductive, why because wardens require sacrifice if person isn't ready to die what is point having such person as warden anyway , another thing is that grey wardens have a lot of secrets and giving them to people that hate you isn't very good idea. 

That's a good point in a case like Jory, though as far as Jory hating them he only balked after it was a bit late to do anything about except greater-gooding him. But yeah, the greater point is a good one as far as forcing people to Join who otherwise wouldn't have wanted to. On the other hand, grabbing someone up who is in a good spot they don't want to leave isn't the only point of the RoA. Daveth, the City Elf Potential-PC, and the Dwarf Thug Potential PC are all examples of the RoA being used not so much because the person doesn't want to join as because someone else wants to execute that person. That's only counterproductive if you annoy people with it, and for that matter only if the person decides to make an issue of it (and when you think about it the people seeking to execute potential Wardens do tend to be rather sporting about being thwarted.)

[TheKomandorShepard]

That's a good point in a case like Jory, though as far as Jory hating them he only balked after it was a bit late to do anything about except greater-gooding him. But yeah, the greater point is a good one as far as forcing people to Join who otherwise wouldn't have wanted to. On the other hand, grabbing someone up who is in a good spot they don't want to leave isn't the only point of the RoA. Daveth, the City Elf Potential-PC, and the Dwarf Thug Potential PC are all examples of the RoA being used not so much because the person doesn't want to join as because someone else wants to execute that person. That's only counterproductive if you annoy people with it, and for that matter only if the person decides to make an issue of it (and when you think about it the people seeking to execute potential Wardens do tend to be rather sporting about being thwarted.)

 

Jory was a coward and fool and this is something you could easily see during your first meeting with him , he was awful material to make grey warden same can be said about some versions of HoF (that may be extremely selfish and self-cetnred). Well ,of course using RoC makes sense when individual wants to join but authorities make problems like it was in Alistair case but even then you need to be careful to not ****** people off. Duncan will use RoC if you refuse join grey wardens if i recall he does that in HN , DC ,DE and magi origins .  

 

Well , i wouldn't said that people are mostly fine with it as dwarf in DC was quite angry about Duncan recruiting HoF , and well don't get me even on Rylock.   

[diaspora2k5]

Excellent presentation. Interesting info. Ultimately irrelevant to the Exile decision.

 

Either the Wardens (at least some part of them) were working with, or enthralled by, the Venatori and by extension Corypheus when they killed the Divine and tore open the Veil allowing a flood of demons to pour into the world. Either way, allowing them to remain on the field endangers everyone. Including themselves. What do you suppose will happen when it becomes widely known that it was the Wardens in the Temple that day? The faithful will demand the Divine be avenged. At best, the Wardens would have been exiled by Orlais and Fereldan anyway. At worst, there could have been an exhalted march against the Order. Never mind the ramifications for the Inquisition should you bring them into your forces.

 

This is not a Blight. The risk is not necessary. Send them away and deal with their latest sh^t storm when the sky isn't falling.

I would have asked Weisshaupt for input but IIRC the Inquisition never even tries to contact them.

[DDJ]

I would have asked Weisshaupt for input but IIRC the Inquisition never even tries to contact them.

 

That is a fair point, but please keep in mind that the Anderfels are hundreds of miles away and while the game apparently takes place over a year - I could be wrong - any messenger going there is going to take weeks both going and coming if they manage to reach it at all.  Assuming they did they may have gotten the "this is Grey Warden" business" line that Stroud uses on Hawke.  It is a good thought.  I would have thought about contacting those in Ferelden, but Leliana makes it clear they are missing also.  Your point is sound however.  Surely there would be Wardens in Nevarra or wherever who could have been contacted.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well ,of course using RoC makes sense when individual wants to join but authorities make problems like it was in Alistair case but even then you need to be careful to not ****** people off.

 

Well , i wouldn't said that people are mostly fine with it as dwarf in DC was quite angry about Duncan recruiting HoF , and well don't get me even on Rylock.   

The dwarf in the DC Origin... acquiesced. (Eventually.) And Rylock... well, as far as I know she's the only case we've seen of someone trying to actually kill a Warden over this, even if grudgingly acquiescing is not entirely uncommon. Heck, I got the impression that what Bryce Cousland would have done if Duncan had Conscripted the HN was more political consequences than trying actually prevent him by means of murder to the face. (Though I don't remember what I based that idea on and so I suppose I could be entirely making that up.)

 

 

Jory was a coward and fool and this is something you could easily see during your first meeting with him , he was awful material to make grey warden same can be said about some versions of HoF (that may be extremely selfish and self-cetnred).

I suppose I'll have to grant you Jory (though as a point in his favor he's mostly calm dealing with Flemeth, who is pretty scary herself, and only looks a bit disquieted when Daveth keeps antagonizing a woman that might actually be a scary dangerous witch) but if the only points against the HoF are that they're selfish and self-centered this is a bad enough situation that that's not enough to disqualify them. Jory's cowardice and foolishness might make him a net loss, but the Warden being selfish isn't as much of a problem.

[diaspora2k5]

That is a fair point, but please keep in mind that the Anderfels are hundreds of miles away and while the game apparently takes place over a year - I could be wrong - any messenger going there is going to take weeks both going and coming if they manage to reach it at all.  Assuming they did they may have gotten the "this is Grey Warden" business" line that Stroud uses on Hawke.  It is a good thought.  I would have thought about contacting those in Ferelden, but Leliana makes it clear they are missing also.  Your point is sound however.  Surely there would be Wardens in Nevarra or wherever who could have been contacted.  

Weisshaupt is geographically closer to Skyhold than Minrathous...

[Cute Nug]

That is a fair point, but please keep in mind that the Anderfels are hundreds of miles away and while the game apparently takes place over a year - I could be wrong - any messenger going there is going to take weeks both going and coming if they manage to reach it at all.  Assuming they did they may have gotten the "this is Grey Warden" business" line that Stroud uses on Hawke.  It is a good thought.  I would have thought about contacting those in Ferelden, but Leliana makes it clear they are missing also.  Your point is sound however.  Surely there would be Wardens in Nevarra or wherever who could have been contacted.  

 

Weisshaupt is geographically closer to Skyhold than Minrathous...

 

Seems like we might have been in touch with Weisshaupt, Nevarra, and Tevinter from the beginning to get mages to close the sky hole anyway. Doesn't make sense in game to say only rebel templars or rebel mages are "available". Rebel pimplars are douches when you meet them in VR and rebel mages are Venatori cultist wannabes. They wouldn't have been my first choice other than investigating if they are the enemy.

 

DAI didn't make much sense in terms of geography and time issues. Seems like we would have tried to contact all Grey Warden groups to make sure they weren't also raising demon armies and warn the other nations if their Grey Wardens were missing and to warn about risk of darkspawn magister control.