1570 réponses à ce sujet

[Kendaric Varkellen]

 

The Wardens are the best part about the Dragon Age world, and the reason I got into it. 

 

This nails it pretty much for me as well. Without the Wardens, I'd not even give a damn about the setting aside from the Avvar, which interest me as well.

[mrcrazyman]

I found this choice rather meaningless. Maric showed that exile can be reversed. Now I may be misremembering but didn't the dialgoue wheel said Get out of Orlais but you actually say Leave southern Thedas. Is this just because minus Alistair as King there likely is no other Wardens in Fereldan?

[lyleoffmyspace]

Really, the secrecy of the Wardens seems to do more a disservice than otherwise. Perhaps it might make people more wary of the organization, but the formula itself is invaluable, since no matter who or where you are, the Blight is everyone's concern. Heck, the Hero of Ferelden was nearly killed multiple times by people who might have thought twice if they actually knew why Grey Wardens were needed in the first place.

 

In a powerful enough position, I would force the Wardens to hand over all of their information or face annihilation. It's not like they have the numbers to really oppose anyone.

 

The secrecy is needed because they're performing blood magic (nessecary blood magic however) and if the secret got out the Wardens would be lynched as abominations and even more mistrusted. 

[Dr. rotinaj]

Agreed.  I'm not sure if people just didn't play those DLCs, or have a rose-tinted view of what "stop the Blights at any cost" means.

 

I mean, in addition to Soldier's Peak, the Warden could make some pretty ethically questionable decisions in game to secure alliances.  Awakening upped that impression by allowing you to let an entire city burn and to ally with a Darkspawn directly responsible for the Fifth Blight.  And then, in Legacy, it's outright stated that the Wardens threatened Malcolm Hawke's family to secure his assistance.

 

It's also pretty much implied from the start that we might be seeing the best side of the Wardens in DA:O.  I mean, when your ethos is "at any cost", that doesn't just cover heroic personal sacrifices.  That means keeping secrets, even if you have to kill people to do so.  It means cutting deals to work with deeply dubious people to get what you want and need.  That means considering every weapon available to you, including blood magic.  And in the case of some Wardens, that means killing leaders who are not willing to get with the programme.  Even if people's Wardens did not make those options, the options to do so were always there, and should have been a clue as to how seriously the Grey Wardens take their mission.

 

The darker side of the Wardens was always ripe for exploration.  I don't think it was quite executed as well in DA:I as I would have liked (probably because without a Blight, much of the Wardens claims of exceptional means look like rationalization), but there could well be circumstances where Wardens are the villains.  Loghain himself was a well-intentioned extremist, after all.

 

No, this is what the Grey Wardens always were. What was the first Grey Warden-y thing that happened in Origins? A blood ritual where you either sacrifice yourself attempting to become a Warden, succeed, or they murder you in cold blood for refusing. The Wardens have always been tolerated because they are needed for Blights, but the characteristics of the group have always been pragmatic and cultish.

 

This so much. I've seen this "Warden's got character assassinated" belief many times on the bsn and it makes 0 sense to me.

[Paric]

Honestly exiling or keeping them in reality wudnt make much of a difference unless a new blight is right around the corner, also while it is true they do use blood magic in general so do/did other nations like Tevinter(elves of old and they both use it for 100s if not 1000s of years without any serius problem unless you actualy belive Chantrys story on how the blights started and even if that wud be real, blood magic wasnt really the thing that caused it).

In my personal opinion blood magic is simply another from of powerfull magic any advenced magicly based civilization used it without having any special problems because of it, main problem with blood magic is that under chantry where its strictly forbiden and thus anyone that uses it is selfthought meaning most of them lack knowlidge, training and control over their newly found powers which ofcourse leads to bad end for them and people around them usualy.

What people tend to forget is that blood magic has been used safely before on large scale and same as with any other form of magic it can be used for good or bad, depending on pearson that uses it.(for example there is a codex entry in Dao talking about retired Tevinter magister that serves as protector of people using bloodmagic to defend them ofcourse he does so resposnibly by using his own blood and blood donations from the people he actualy protects). Ofcourse if your method of using it is blood sacrafice of slaves etc.. than you are using it badly and wrongly, but for example on the battlefield where there is plenty of enemies around which you want and plan to kill anyway is it rly so wrong to use their blood to prevent casualties on your side etc...

[Dr. rotinaj]

The secrecy is needed because they're performing blood magic (nessecary blood magic however) and if the secret got out the Wardens would be lynched as abominations and even more mistrusted. 

 

Idk if that's a valid excuse cuz the Chantry and the Templars have been using phylacteries for 1000 years and they're the ones that outlaw blood magic. While not every farmer should know about the Warden's use of blood magic, the joining shouldn't be a Warden secret.

[MoonDrummer]

They saved the world 5 times, banishing them seems like a remarkably short sighted decision.

[AzureAardvark]

If it's not in game it didn't happen.

 

I don't care if Bioware considers then canon or not, the vast majority of players haven't read them.

 

Hear hear! I never saw the point in paying for what generally amounts to fan fiction

[theblackfox]

IMO deciding about their fate isn't really the Inquisition's affair. Since all this bloodmagicyaddayadda (which their order doesn't forbid anyway) happened in Orlais it would be Celene/Gaspard/whosoever's choice to exile them, which would be irrational for they are the only ones who get **** done while others are busy attending balls and reciting the chant of light.

So I conscripted them out of pure pragmatism - we need as many people as possible to stop the maniac magister; who cares about some sacrificial throat slitting.

Still, I would have preferred a choice of just leaving them be - I don't like the thought of them fighting in the name of the Chantry now.

[Aren]

Well, to fight the next Blight seems a pretty compelling reason. 

well  good luck you have 400 years..... unless the grey wardens or the architect continue to search so badly for Razikale.

Anyway the grey wardens are just a shady organization who want to preserve their power. There is no need of them the joining ritual is useful only to kill the archedemons. Without their stupid secrets every nation can use easly the joining ritual only during the blights, there is no need to sacrifice man and woman to the taint without a blight.

[BroBear Berbil]

They saved the world 5 times, banishing them seems like a remarkably short sighted decision.

 

The Order in southern Thedas is in shambles because the enemy you're facing is able to so completely manipulate the Wardens' tainted minds. Corypheus was able to escape his prison in the first place because of Wardens.

 

They're a proven liability against this particular threat. If that doesn't come into play if you allow them to stay (I've only chosen to banish them so far) then that's a failing on the writers.

 

As for the blights, nobody knows when the 6th Blight will start and would the Wardens in Orlais be able to combat it in their current condition anyway? They have no officers of rank left and they just got done sacrificing a good part of their numbers in the folly of raising a demonic army. I banished them so they could go back to Weisshaupt and hopefully get their **** together.

 

On another note, there's a mining operation in the Western Approach with a codex entry about the Wardens trying to reach an Old God around there but the ground being too unstable. Their plan to march demons into the Deep Roads to kill the remaining Old Gods is untested and extremely risky, and was born of desperation. It's further evidence of the terrible shape they're in and what a **** leader Clarel was. The last time a tainted creature found its way to an Old God in the hopes of killing it resulted in failure and a blight starting anyway.

[ushae]

Well those first few blights from which we were saved do give them a lot of leverage. It was an easy decision to keep them with the Inquisition.

[robertthebard]

Who in the right mind would exile the Grey Wardens when there are two more Blights, and the Darkspawn is still existed. Banish the Wardens from southern Thedas is probably one of the worse and one of the most idiotic decision you can make, and without the Wardens around southern Thedas will be consume by the Blight before we know it.

What Blight? At the time of the decision, there isn't one. Since not all Blights begin in the Kocari Wilds, what difference does it make where they're stationed. Despite some of the claims made here of "putting them to the sword", exile does not mean execution. Whatever numbers they had left, they still have. They're just somewhere else. If they do something stupid that cuts their numbers there, then that's entirely on them.

However, I do believe that the character assassination didn't come from DA I, but from the BSN. It started in Origins, where we, as a whole, ignored the "by whatever means necessary". Because we started out as a Warden in training, people got the misconception that they were knights in shining armor, that can't do any wrong. This despite Sofia Dryden, and the admission that they tried to overthrow a king. This despite countless codex entries about the results that conscription can sometimes have. This despite the outrage that people felt about Ser Jory then, which is, it seems, completely overlooked now, "because HoF".

The fact is, there is no right or wrong answer. The decision can be entirely based on how one is playing their Inquisitor. My first run kept them around, and sadly, lost them anyway, even though they died to a man saving a town on the War Table. My second run exiled them, because of all the time and energy I had to divert to solving their stupidity, instead of focusing on what I should have been focused on. We are not currently in a Blight, despite claims to the contrary, and it's actually, from my perspective, a wiser decision to send them away, than to leave them where they can potentially be corrupted again. We broke that hold, but did we break all the possible holds, spoilers notwithstanding.

[Shadow Fox]

I kept them around cause you never know when another Blight will come.

 

Could be 400 years or 10.

[AshesEleven]

Honestly, the only reason I didn't exile them is because of the personal attachment I felt to them, AND I had just allowed Hawke to sacrifice herself so that Stroud could help them rebuild.  The sacrifice would feel wasted if I didn't give them the chance.

 

I then proceeded to basically kill all the Wardens on the War Table.  Oops.  

[CronoDragoon]

I then proceeded to basically kill all the Wardens on the War Table.  Oops.  

 

That mission is odd. I assume you picked Cullen? Did anyone pick someone else there and see what happens?

[AshesEleven]

That mission is odd. I assume you picked Cullen? Did anyone pick someone else there and see what happens?

 

Yeah I picked Cullen until the last part, where I realized that if I threw them all at the Venatori they'd get annihilated.  I picked Leliana to try and pick off the Venatori before they did real damage to the Wardens, but alas, it was too little too late.  

[errantknight]

They can survive the war table missions. You just have to choose the right options.

Good to know. I felt bad about killing them all

[fhs33721]

I kept them around cause you never know when another Blight will come.

 

Could be 400 years or 10.

Or probably 5 months given that it seems like there is an old god buried in the western approach and the area is also swarming with drakspawn underground. Yep, better not exile those wardens

 

That mission is odd. I assume you picked Cullen? Did anyone pick someone else there and see what happens?

I picked Leliana. Ended with something along the lines of "Venatori and traiterous nobles were killed, but the grey Wardens suffered huge casualties and won't be of much use anymore the future." Well it at least indicates that some survived.

.

[CronoDragoon]

I feel ashamed of how I handled war table missions. I always picked the quickest times not realizing that actual thought was put into how you choose to resolve them. Well, this is what multiple playthroughs is for.

[earl of the north]

I didn't exile them (1st Playthough) for purely selfish reasons, now my Inquisition has Grey Wardens (we can always make more from prisoners)  in its ranks meaning now the Inquisiton can deal with Demons, out of control Mages and Darkspawn.

 

I conscripted both the Wardens and the Templars into my ranks.

[omphaloskepsis]

They're a proven liability against this particular threat. If that doesn't come into play if you allow them to stay (I've only chosen to banish them so far) then that's a failing on the writers.

Exactly.

 

The truly pragmatic thing to do would be to either kill them all or dump them into an extremely secure prison (that is, execute most, but save a few to be launched out of trebuchets at any archdemons that might show up in the near future), at least until Cory is dealt with.  People are being emotional and romantic, which I get because I chose to give them another chance.  But if I was playing a practical or "take no risk" character, they would have been dumped.

 

The Wardens are susceptible to mind control by Cory, which is a serious threat, but they also showed that Cory could easily mislead them without even bothering.  Their judgement was bad in multiple ways, and kept making the wrong decisions (keeping Cory a secret in the first place, and pretty much every choice that was made between DA2 and DA:I).

[Hazegurl]

Besides, the only "mind control" that Cory did with the Wardens was put the Calling into their heads. They were more a danger to themselves than anyone around them once they told Cory to ****** off. If most people feel comfortable recruiting the Mages after they had truly been mind controlled (or at least their leader claimed to be) then why should the Warden's be banished?

[robertthebard]

Besides, the only "mind control" that Cory did with the Wardens was put the Calling into their heads. They were more a danger to themselves than anyone around them once they told Cory to ****** off. If most people feel comfortable recruiting the Mages after they had truly been mind controlled (or at least their leader claimed to be) then why should the Warden's be banished?

Because I actually read and understood your signature?