110 réponses à ce sujet

[BLOOD LORDS]

I don't know, but Americans are so wacky I wouldn't put it past them.

[TruffleMeister]

Wait wait wait. Half the stuff you said is determinant. You can make Merril destroy the Eluvian if your her rival. Hawke does stop the qunari invasion, everyone makes a big point about that, that's why she is the Champion of Kirkwall and so on and so forth. Personally I LOVE Hawke. I didn't as much before, but now that I see her in Inquisition I admire her. (This is coming from someone who is a non-mage Hawke) Hawke is an ordinary person. They have no tainted powers, and no anchor of Andraste or whatever. They never aspired to greatness, they were just an average joe trying to escape the blight. The world time and time again threw its dirty laundry at Hawke and despite her own agenda she always got caught up in the madness. It was never her job to do anything, yet she was always at the center of events, when a hero was needed. I played a sarcastic Hawke so the severity of events in DA:II never hit me, then came Inquisition. I felt so much pity for Hawke. Her home was destroyed, her family torn apart, and time and time again she had to face the burden of problems caused by other people. Even when she succeeds (In my case she became vicountress) the Templars go crazy and turn on her. She's thus forced into hiding. No matter what, she can never catch a break, and so many people want her dead simply for trying to live her life. When Varric said "You know what? If Hawke had been at the conclave, she'd be dead to. You people have done enough to her," it really hit home how crap her life has been ever since stepping into Kirkwall. When Hawke even says she doesn't go by the title of Champion much anymore shows, that she herself realizes how inept she is at making things better. No matter what, some new problem pops up. It makes me feel sorry for her. I treat her like Cole whenever I'm talking to her, I just wanna give her a hug and tell her everything will be ok. Also regarding Corypheus its the Warden's fault. They forced Hawke's father Malcolm to seal Corypheus. If the Warden's had never done this Corypheus would still be running about, and Hawke would've never been needed to release him. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yet another instance of Hawke having to bear the burden of things that she was never supposed to be involved in. Hawke is one of my fav protagonists from the series, simply because how tragic her life is, and despite it all she still fights to make things better even when everyone is against her.

[d4eaming]

I personally loved that Hawke really had so little control over what happened. He was just a normal guy, nothing special, no chosen one, so extra powers, that got stuck trying to fix other people's messes. He's not a big damn hero saving the day. I liked the personal story and the fact that he wasn't some powerful person that could fix everything. His friends did things beyond his control (Anders blowing up the chantry really got to me, was not expecting that at all and my first Hawke killed him for it- but I loved that Anders went and did his thing, Hawke be damned). Your friends didn't just worship you at every turn- they disapproved and disagreed with you, they did the things they wanted to do whether you liked it or not (Isabella forever irks me for this, and my Hawkes are always ticked off at her- stupid selfishness nearly got Kirkwall sacked by Qunari).

 

I loved my Warden, and I am loving my Inquisitor, and I loved Hawke, but all for very different reasons.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Inquisitor does everything by accident and is completely reliant on the people around them to get stuff done.

 

I'm still scratching my head on why people worship the inquisitor like the world would have ended without them.  They really are just a bunch of coincidences, really anyone else could have accidentally been there are the right time.

[errantknight]

Hawke isn't a failure. DA's fans failed him/her, and so EA responded accordingly. They're merely writing what (I guess) a majority of people wanted.

This makes no sense whatsoever. How could the fans fail the character before DA2 was written? 

 

Anyhoo... Failing in one's overarching goals doesn't make a character less of a hero, it makes the story a tragedy. Of course Hawke is a hero. He/she keeps on trying even as things get worse and worse. Those failiures are out of Hawke's control, But he deals with them as well as is possible.

 

I for one am glad that Hawke showed up. It gives me hope that one day his efforts will be rewarded.

[d4eaming]

This makes no sense whatsoever. How could the fans fail the character before DA2 was written? 

 

Anyhoo... Failing in one's overarching goals doesn't make a character less of a hero, it makes the story a tragedy. Of course Hawke is a hero. He/she keeps on trying even as things get worse and worse. Those failiures are out of Hawke's control, But he deals with them as well as is possible.

 

I for one am glad that Hawke showed up. It gives me hope that one day his efforts will be rewarded.

 

Yeah, I would like to see Hawke happy. He tried, everything went to hell around him, and he picked up the pieces as best he could. When I saw him in my game he just seemed kind of broken over the whole ordeal.

[Steelcan]

Yeah, I would like to see Hawke happy. He tried, everything went to hell around him, and he picked up the pieces as best he could. When I saw him in my game he just seemed kind of broken over the whole ordeal.

he spent most of my playthrough ranting at blood mages and making more bad jokes

[errantknight]

Inquisitor does everything by accident and is completely reliant on the people around them to get stuff done.

 

I'm still scratching my head on why people worship the inquisitor like the world would have ended without them.  They really are just a bunch of coincidences, really anyone else could have accidentally been there are the right time.

Well, the world *would* have ended without them. How that came to be possible is beside the point. And if they'd turned out to be useless at fighting demons, the world would have ended, mark or no mark

[d4eaming]

he spent most of my playthrough ranting at blood mages and making more bad jokes

I went with snarky, and sometimes he came across as a little bit of a nut. He didn't rant at blood mages too much though, just rolled his eyes a lot at Anders and Merril.

 

Given the option, he probably would have spent an awful lot of time head desking at practically everything around him, though. Who wouldn't get completely exasperated at being the center of a maelstrom?

[wright1978]

"I am the Maker's Chosen!" - Inquisitor Trevelyan

 

If it had been anyone else besides Trevelyan, Lavellan, Cadash, or Adaar to pick up that orb Thedas would've been ****ed. That it was one of those eight out of everyone that was at the Conclave - and there were a lot of people there - is just short of a miracle. 

 

Hero of Ferelden would have been compromised the Cory's manipulation of the Taint.

 

The Champion of Kirkwall would've either made it worse or ran.

 

Only the Herald of Andraste (or possibly Magister Alexius if only he could alter the timeline before the Breach) could've been the one to lead the Inquisition and restore order to everywhere south of Nevarra.

 

Sorry that's completely untrue. Clearly if Hawke or anyone non tainted had accidently picked up the orb they could have played same role. That's the source of what enables the inquisitor to become the inquisitor, so its clearly not something that is isolated to Trevelyan, Lavellan, Cadash, or Adaar.

[wright1978]

No, the Maker is what enables them. If it was supposed to be Hawke it would've been Hawke. But Hawke sucks all the way up until he makes a heroic sacrifice.

 

The maker doesn't exist.

[errantknight]

I think people are confusing Hawke's worth with how much they enjoyed DA2 as a concept. Of course Hawke failed. Had the inquisitor or the warden been there, they would have failed too, because it was impossible to win. Hawke didn't fail because Hawke was a loser, Hawke failed because the cards were stacked against him to the point that there *was* no win. You can argue about whether that makes a satisfying game, but that's about all that can be drawn from it. It did create an interesting world state, however bleak I found walking in Hawke's shoes.

[fhs33721]

Well so far Hawke still seems to be more competent than the Inquisitor. Really the Inquisitor achieves almost everything s/he does out of pure luck.

S/he literally gets her/his power by randomly walking around the peace conclave into rooms s/he most likely wasn't even allowed to enter like a complete fool. Then s/he picks up a magically glowing orb of unknown origin or function without considering that this might be a bad idea. And surpise s/he gets everyone killed by causing a huge explosion by doing so.

And for this impressive feat s/he for some reason gets to be the leader of the Inquisition right from the start (because even though basically Cassandra, Cullen and Leliana are still in charge at first they already bow to your every decision because..... reasons.).

Fails at stopping the templars/mages from joining Corypheus (depending on who you side with).

Potentionally creates an alternative timeline where Thedas is a post apocalyptic wasteland overrun by demons and only avoid it becoming reality becaue Dorian saves her/his a*s.

Gets the village of Haven destroyed as well by simply being there.

S/he randomly survives being killed by and avalanche only because of convienient holes that lead to spacious caves somehow.

S/he get's her/his a*s saved by Stroud or no one else than Hawke while s/he runs away.

 

 

Seriously the Inquisitor is a bigger failure as a hero than Hawke, s/he only somehow avoids being called out on her/his nonsense.

[Super Drone]

I don't know why failing to stop Anders from blowing up the chantry was such a bad thing. The Gallows were brutal and the rite of tranquility was being abused even before the right of annulment was introduced. Awful things were happening to mages and Elthina was content to sit around and pray about it, even though she had an immense amount of power. Her willful blindness was deplorable, as an enabler of abuse she got what she deserved.

 

Mages are not better than not-Mages. Mages don't deserve to live more than not-Mages.

 

Anders murdered dozens of completely innocent people bombing a church like a coward.

[Hazegurl]

I think people are confusing Hawke's worth with how much they enjoyed DA2 as a concept. Of course Hawke failed. Had the inquisitor or the warden been there, they would have failed too, because it was impossible to win. Hawke didn't fail because Hawke was a loser, Hawke failed because the cards were stacked against him to the point that there *was* no win. You can argue about whether that makes a satisfying game, but that's about all that can be drawn from it. It did create an interesting world state, however bleak I found walking in Hawke's shoes.

Not even the Inquisitor can make peace between the Temps and Mages and in the end had to use the power of Mythal to beat Cory.

[d4eaming]

I think people are confusing Hawke's worth with how much they enjoyed DA2 as a concept. Of course Hawke failed. Had the inquisitor or the warden been there, they would have failed too, because it was impossible to win. Hawke didn't fail because Hawke was a loser, Hawke failed because the cards were stacked against him to the point that there *was* no win. You can argue about whether that makes a satisfying game, but that's about all that can be drawn from it. It did create an interesting world state, however bleak I found walking in Hawke's shoes.

Hahaha, so much this. Seriously, I don't get the Hawke hate. Hate the framed narrative design of DA2, and the corridor fights, mobs appearing out of the sky (and ceilings), and the massively reused maps. But Hawke him/herself wasn't a "loser". They were put into an impossible situation, with people on both sides doing whatever it is they wanted to do. There's things my Warden did in Origins where other characters went and over rode his choices (I seem to recall that even if you destroy the anvil, it can still be pulled back up depending on who ends up ruling Orzammar). My boy destroyed that thing because it was evil. Morrigan will still run off, even if you had a relationship with her. Companions can still turn on you, and so forth.

 

Things just happen in the games that are meant to be out of your control.

 

The whole point that I got out of DA2 was, an unremarkable shmuck gets stuck in the middle of a bunch of stupid sh-t and does his best to come out of top. He fixed some things and made some things worse. Just like the Warden could do, but Hawke's issues had more immediate and visceral consequences. Warden couldn't have stopped Anders, either. Or Meridath, or Orsino. Why these are an indictment against Hawke and not the Warden, I have no idea.

[errantknight]

This thread is confusing me. What's the point of it? I mean, Hawke couldn't win so the fact that he didn't is virtually meaningless and what does the inquisitor have to do with any of it? Why do we have to dismiss  or negate any of these characters? Why does it matter that the inquisitor needed help to beat Corypheus? I mean, that's the point of not going it alone right at the beginning, right? These stories would be pretty boring if the heros were infallable gods who rotflstomped everything in their paths and could do no wrong. There's a poignancy to the fact that much of what happens to the inquisitor is a matter of fate or providence and it lets the player decide just what that luck (or bad luck) means.

[d4eaming]

This thread is confusing me. What's the point of it? I mean, Hawke couldn't win so the fact that he didn't is virtually meaningless and what does the inquisitor have to do with any of it? Why do we have to dismiss  or negate any of these characters?

Because I guess some people just can't let go of the fact DA2 wasn't what they wanted? I have no idea. Every time I see a "Hawke sucked" thread, I don't get the point.

[shurryy]

I'm pretty sure that's not up to you. Unless you're one of BioWare's writers pretending to be a fan.

I wouldn't take it as a factual statement, every player is free to believe whatever they want. 
Whether or not the maker exists can be debated eternally, but personally every character I make doesn't believe in the maker because, well, I don't. 

I killed those Darkspawn, I rescued those mages/templars, I was at the wrong place at the wrong time, it was all me. I was not being guided, I won't let some crack-god take credit for my actions. 

At least that's my characters in a nutshell.  

[LOLandStuff]

Everyone in Kirkwall is inept and Hawke has no obligation to fix their problems. That place has templars, city guards etc etc and all of them suck at their job.

If anything, they should be grateful they have Hawke, else Kirkwall would've hit sea bottom by the first year.