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Solas - solving the puzzle that is Solas

Débuté par Guest_starlitegirl_* , déc. 12 2014 09:03

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#26
Guest_starlitegirl_*
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 04:17

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Other things I wanted to mention are that I think I read somewhere that elven gods weren't 'true' gods but nobility that were revered as gods because they had more powers and abilities. Can't remember where I read this but a few things make me believe it is true. First would be that if you take him to the palace he talks like he was nobility and has been to functions like but then fluffs it off as fade stuff. It also fits my theory that the civil war was likely started or in large part due to the elven nobles and he was one but did nothing or whatever he did was far to late when most of the damage was done. I think back to DAO and how the nobles seem to decide how their people will act. If the elven gods were really nobility of sorts that were more gifted then you now see them as more or less normal and can picture them warring among themselves for whatever reasons and dragging the people they ruled into it. This is something that might be of interest because if they weren't true gods then maybe he drank from the well. If they had limited powers (which even gods seem to have in the DA universe) then I could see him drinking for the well to gain knowledge and discovering the price or perhaps willing to accept the price. It would explain a little more as to why he is an old friend to mythal, why that might have been her taking him over because the well would allow that, and why he is angry with the inquisitor if they drink from the well knowing the inquisitor can now be a slave of sorts. Ironically, if he did drink from the well and he was trying to stop the war among his people by going after the nobility that caused it (in this theory) that would make him a slave to it himself though it appears that mythal was not part of anything that went on or perhaps part of her reason for doing what she does is rooted in what went on with the elves and perhaps they were allied against other elves to stop it?

 

These are only speculations because there's not much to go on. We really don't have much information at all about the elves or elven gods and what we do have some of it comes from keepers which could be easily considered an inaccurate source due to them not always getting the context right or having all the information.

 

Also, how is solas walking around in an elven body? Wouldn't he have to be doing pretty much what mythal/flemeth is/are doing? That means that he either had a willing host/partner or possessed it. We don't see that part of him and it's not brought up or addressed like it was with flemeth in DAO but there is no way that body is his body unless he was in some magical stasis. Someone mentioned something about sleeping but I thought that was with regards to Cory. What is the situation with Solas? Is he possessing some elf? Did he make a deal with them like Mythal?


#27
DarkAmaranth1966
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 04:23

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I like Solas, he screwed up but, we all make mistakes, Everyone did at some point, well except the Inquisitor, and even then you can have him think he might have made a mistake if you let Celene die. The thing I like is that he basically confirms Merrill's view that demons are just spirits and it isn't their fault if you free his friend.


#28
Uirebhiril
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 04:50

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F*ck Solas.

 

And elsewhere on the forum is a chorus of "yes please." :P


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#29
SarEnyaDor
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 04:57

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Does it not count if it is Fade ****ing?? LOL

#30
Ajna
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:15

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F*ck Solas.


I did..twice. Doing it again too.

#31
Poppy
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:18

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I did..twice. Doing it again too.

 

 Omg, i am glad i am not the only one who has started a third play through...


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#32
Elessie
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:20

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Also, how is solas walking around in an elven body? Wouldn't he have to be doing pretty much what mythal/flemeth is/are doing? That means that he either had a willing host/partner or possessed it. We don't see that part of him and it's not brought up or addressed like it was with flemeth in DAO but there is no way that body is his body unless he was in some magical stasis. Someone mentioned something about sleeping but I thought that was with regards to Cory. What is the situation with Solas? Is he possessing some elf? Did he make a deal with them like Mythal?

 

I thought the ancient elves were supposed to be practically immortal and prone to centuries long naps?  The uthenera thingy.

 

Helps the whole 'not gods but really powerful ancient elves' thing ring true for me.  I mean, by the time the game takes place their abilities would seem god-like, but in the past elves lived and breathed magic.


#33
Ajna
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:21

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Omg, i am glad i am not the only one who has started a third play through...


:D

#34
HAG1686
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:31

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I kind of like the idea that Solas and Flemeth were working together all along, or at least working towards the same goal. They clearly have a history and are shown as being old friends. Maybe giving the orb to Corypheus was sort of a Plan A for whatever goal they have? (Getting rid of the veil completely? Fixing whatever went wrong with Solas' original betrayal/rebellion?) When it was all over and it didn't work, they got together to regroup. They both seemed sad, and maybe it was because they already knew what Plan B was, a combining of their powers. Maybe Flemeth/Mythal wants Solas' ultimate goal to succeed just as much as he does, and she's willing (and she does talk to Morrigan about willing souls) to sacrifice her independent self and identity to see it through?

 

Just a theory, because I really don't know enough or think we have enough information to figure it out completely.


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#35
jawsisinmywc
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:43

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I never interpeted Flemeth as having taken the old god soul from Kieren, but rather as having put a part of herself(that blue magic stuff) into Kieren and when Morrigans insisted that she have Kieren back, Flemeth took that part of her out.

#36
angelofsol
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 05:45

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Well I just assumed they were opposed to each other, supposedly he did seal all the other gods away, except Mythal was dead, her essence found Flemeth. After hearing Flemeth about how she wanted a reckoning after the well of sorrows because they were betrayed I assumed she was refering to the gods being locked away.

 

I just have a hard time seeing Solas and Flemeth as allies. I have to assume Solas is a villian if his plan is to let loose the gods he locked away, what good will that do at this point?

Except for the fact that Fen'Harel and Mythal are often depicted together.  This is quite obviously a VERY old friendship/allieship between the two of them.  You have statues of the Dread Wolf all throughout the temple of Mythal.  At the Eluvian at the end you have a howling wolf statue on one side of the mirror and a dragon on the other side.  Everywhere there were ancient elven ruins you saw the wolf statue.  As a quick aside my daughter is currently old enough now for me to let her play DAO and I'm curious to see, if in the ancient elven ruins where you can find the spirit of the Arcane Warrior if you see the same/similar iconography.

Anyway, the statuary in the game and bits of lore you pick up that isn't Dalish paint Fen'Harel as a bit of an Elven hero, futhermore that there were no qualms between Fen'Harel and Mythal.  I wish we had a better picture of history.  Would be interesting if Mythal died before Fen'Harel locked the "gods" away (seems to make more sense than Fen'Harel locking the other gods away and not locking Mythal away), and that was part of the impetous for Fen'Harel's "rebellion".


#37
angelofsol
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 06:06

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Also, how is solas walking around in an elven body? Wouldn't he have to be doing pretty much what mythal/flemeth is/are doing? That means that he either had a willing host/partner or possessed it. We don't see that part of him and it's not brought up or addressed like it was with flemeth in DAO but there is no way that body is his body unless he was in some magical stasis. Someone mentioned something about sleeping but I thought that was with regards to Cory. What is the situation with Solas? Is he possessing some elf? Did he make a deal with them like Mythal?

I'm curious about this as well, and I could go either way on it.  The evidence seems to suggest nothing firm either way.

Solas's village that Leliana finds is "centuries old" ruins.  If it is actually the birth place of Fen'Harel, first off wouldn't it be millinea old, not centuries... or is that just a vague way of saying the village is in ruins and has been ruins for a really long time?  If it has only been ruins for centuries it lends weight to the fact that Solas is carrying Fen'Harel around like Flemeth carries Mythal.  That or Solas was lying, which is entirely plausible.  If it were the birthplace of Fen'Harel I would think that it wouldn't be some "village" in ruins, I would have thought that it would have been some gloriously amazing forest with crystal spires.  Though, if it is the Dread Wolf's birthplace that could point to the DW not having been some high strata of elven society and more likely one of the lower caste.  No answers there.

It is interesting that all mysterious and long lived elves we have seen in the game have been bald (Zathrian, Abelas, Solas) and had long thin faces.  Of course this could just be some designer's preference and have no real meaning.  I don't know if it was just Abelas's armor but we KNOW he is ancient Elvhen and to me he and the other ancient Elvhen sentinals were physically built completely differently than any other elves we've seen in the game.  The chest to abdomen ratio was, to me, a bit off... they looked a bit more alien.  Solas didn't have that same build and they could have very easily given him that same build if Solas is the body of the DW and not some elf carrying the DW around.  Instead, to my eyes Solas had the same body type/build of any elf we've seen in the game outside of the Elvhen.  But, still because of the myraid of reasons it could be done either way there are no firm answers one way or the other.

If the Elvhen sentinels have survived this whole time because they slumber it could reason that Solas is the DW and not walking around like Flemythal because we know the DW went into a long slumber.  Of course, once again, conversely it could be argued that the DW's "slumber" was not really uthenera but more a time of disembodiment until he found one, like Solas he could join with, thereby it being a figurative "sleep" and not an actual slumber.  Again, no real answers.

For my part..... I think that Solas IS the Dread Wolf and not the spirit of the DW riding some elf.  That makes the most sense and seems the most likely to me.  Of course I may be utterly biased as my second playthrough I played a female elf mage and I totally love the idea that she could be in love with an actual walking Elvhen "god" and not someone just carrying the soul of an Elvhen god.  The possibilities for sequels in my mind will no doubt be utterly let down (will she help him or fight him and oh the depths of romance and potential tragedy such a story could make) but until they come out with the next DA game or expansion I can hang onto them  :wub: .


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#38
Guest_starlitegirl_*
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 06:47

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I'm curious about this as well, and I could go either way on it.  The evidence seems to suggest nothing firm either way.

Solas's village that Leliana finds is "centuries old" ruins.  If it is actually the birth place of Fen'Harel, first off wouldn't it be millinea old, not centuries... or is that just a vague way of saying the village is in ruins and has been ruins for a really long time?  If it has only been ruins for centuries it lends weight to the fact that Solas is carrying Fen'Harel around like Flemeth carries Mythal.  That or Solas was lying, which is entirely plausible.  If it were the birthplace of Fen'Harel I would think that it wouldn't be some "village" in ruins, I would have thought that it would have been some gloriously amazing forest with crystal spires.  Though, if it is the Dread Wolf's birthplace that could point to the DW not having been some high strata of elven society and more likely one of the lower caste.  No answers there.

It is interesting that all mysterious and long lived elves we have seen in the game have been bald (Zathrian, Abelas, Solas) and had long thin faces.  Of course this could just be some designer's preference and have no real meaning.  I don't know if it was just Abelas's armor but we KNOW he is ancient Elvhen and to me he and the other ancient Elvhen sentinals were physically built completely differently than any other elves we've seen in the game.  The chest to abdomen ratio was, to me, a bit off... they looked a bit more alien.  Solas didn't have that same build and they could have very easily given him that same build if Solas is the body of the DW and not some elf carrying the DW around.  Instead, to my eyes Solas had the same body type/build of any elf we've seen in the game outside of the Elvhen.  But, still because of the myraid of reasons it could be done either way there are no firm answers one way or the other.

If the Elvhen sentinels have survived this whole time because they slumber it could reason that Solas is the DW and not walking around like Flemythal because we know the DW went into a long slumber.  Of course, once again, conversely it could be argued that the DW's "slumber" was not really uthenera but more a time of disembodiment until he found one, like Solas he could join with, thereby it being a figurative "sleep" and not an actual slumber.  Again, no real answers.

For my part..... I think that Solas IS the Dread Wolf and not the spirit of the DW riding some elf.  That makes the most sense and seems the most likely to me.  Of course I may be utterly biased as my second playthrough I played a female elf mage and I totally love the idea that she could be in love with an actual walking Elvhen "god" and not someone just carrying the soul of an Elvhen god.  The possibilities for sequels in my mind will no doubt be utterly let down (will she help him or fight him and oh the depths of romance and potential tragedy such a story could make) but until they come out with the next DA game or expansion I can hang onto them  :wub: .

 

 

I think the sentinels looked like the elves in this game and they were old so Solas' body I don't think really means anything. But the village is suspicious for a few reasons. Most because only a few centuries old doesn't go well with the the history as far as I can tell. I think that means he either lied (which he does do plenty of) or he is joined with another elf and perhaps they drank from the well? Is it mythal's well or could he use it for the same purpose? I have so many questions around that. Sure, elves were pretty much immortal and so he could be though there appear to be none of them left. Mythal herself is using flemeth. I feel like it would be really odd if he was actually Fen'Harel in his own body mostly because I feel like part of his spirits are people too stance is because he is a spirit. I feel like he doesn't see himself as an elf at all based on much of the dialogue. In fact, he pretty much dismisses being an elf and seems to ally himself more with spirits. This makes me think he is a spirit in a body he is using much like Mythal. It would explain the great offense taken over the various ways spirits are seen and treated. It would also explain the reason the village was only centuries on and not far older as in Ancient. And again, based on his dialogue in the palace if you bring him, he has been to noble functions though again he uses the fade as his excuse. But the village seems to be not noble. His attire is pretty raggy. I mean it really is horribly raggy looking and even Sera looks better. So I feel like he is using the body of an elf much like Mythal is using Flemeth. What I can't decide is if it's a bit hypocritical of him. As is, he may disapprove of a fair amount of things you say or do and while often they are related to the oppressed and his sense of wrongness in that, it feels like he is missing the big picture which is that he is responsible on some level for the mess the world is in and it has to be fixed. We're cleaning up his mess and his main concern is the orb (which he pretty much states rather blatantly). Something about that feels very off to me like ultimately he really only cares about spirits and mages. I feel like the mages though has more to do with their magic and connection to the fade than them being people. Yes, he approves of helping people in need and I don't question that there is a compassionate side to him, but he is more complex than that because if he truly cared about people he would have never let Cory have the orb since I don't feel there is any way anything good could ever come of that. There was always going to be a body count. And I don't care when this transpired. It shows he really didn't care about the consequences or the people that could be harmed as a result of him doing that. It also feels like it was a selfish act most likely for something he wanted and damn everyone else.

 

And if Cory's spell succeeded what would have happened then? Spirits and darkspawn and demons running the world while all the other species basically become enslaved or oppressed in some way if not outright killed? That one baffles me as well.


#39
Casuist
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 07:20

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We know next to nothing about the circumstances surrounding Cory getting the orb, simply that Solas was too weak to utilize it himself.

 

He states pretty explicitly that he is not, technically, a spirit... and there were a number of moments where characters in a position to observe otherwise should have done so, if he was lying. 


#40
skotie
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 07:23

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You're forgetting though that her taking Kieren's Old God soul (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to) is an optional storyline. The ending is the same whether or not she has that soul. And besides I think they key to this whole thing is "willing host" and I do not think Solas would be willing to have his body taken over based on the convo he has.

 

I'm pretty sure Mythal wanted a reckoning for being murdered. Abelas tells us she was murdered, Flemythal and Solas/Fen'harel seem like friends. I'm guessing Mythal's murder is possibly the catalyst that made Fen'harel lock away the rest of the gods, because likely one of them (or all of them) plotted for her demise. Remember, Mythal was the one who kept standing up to the gods in their insanity.

I'm not willing to believe that the Dark Ritual has zero impact on the future, as far as we know this is the only time in recorded history an arch demon was killed where the grey warden who struck the final blow lived, and the soul of the old god was not destroyed. Something that big has to have a good reason behind it, other than Flemeth and Morrigan are just good people.

 

I remember Flemeth while talking about her reckoning specifically mention "As we were betrayed!" That is what made me think perhaps she was refering to the rest of the gods being locked away, but I suppose that could just mean her and Solas. When did Mythal stand up to the gods exactly? I don't remember that from anywhere in the games.


#41
Giubba
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 07:31

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For what i gathered Solas is the name of host/partner/vessel of the Dread wolf soul (but this open the debat if the elven pantheon are nothing more than incredible powerful spirit or spirist that predate the golden city breach) Solas and the dread wolf are 2 seprate being just like Flemeth and Mythal (Flemeth claim that she will obtain vengence for Mythal not that she will have her revenge).

 

Anyway i think that lore wise this an incredible spin.


#42
Guest_starlitegirl_*
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 07:44

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I'm not willing to believe that the Dark Ritual has zero impact on the future, as far as we know this is the only time in recorded history an arch demon was killed where the grey warden who struck the final blow lived, and the soul of the old god was not destroyed. Something that big has to have a good reason behind it, other than Flemeth and Morrigan are just good people.

 

I remember Flemeth while talking about her reckoning specifically mention "As we were betrayed!" That is what made me think perhaps she was refering to the rest of the gods being locked away, but I suppose that could just mean her and Solas. When did Mythal stand up to the gods exactly? I don't remember that from anywhere in the games.

 

When did Flemeth say this about being betrayed? And now that I think of it, who are the old gods exactly?And in regards to what? I remember it vaguely but just the line and no context. What is there relationship to the elven gods or Mythal and Solas?

 

I think the dark ritual really was nothing more than removing the taint from an old god however what they do with the old god is up for grabs. It could be a more noble cause to restore the old gods or at least one of them or maybe one at a time or it could be to use that old god soul for their own bidding or gain some sort of old god power, however, this then causes me to look at Solas again and wonder if he knows this is about to happen, wouldn't that be the very thing he is fighting against? He would never want to see a god soul subjugated like that I would think unless this is just hypocrisy on his part. So I'm inclined to think that Mythal is simply attempting to restore the old gods and nothing more on that front. If there is more then Solas even standing by while she would use it for herself is pure hypocrisy. Because I don't have enough information about Cory getting the Orb or what exactly awakened Solas (some connection to the orb or was he in the fade and became aware of what transpired which sounds rather likely and does indeed actually lend truth to all his discourse on the fade as it was likely where he had been existing all that time). Seems like that might be the case but then the question becomes how did this magister get his hands on an elven orb by way of Solas? It would have had to have been when he was a magister because after that he was confused for a thousand years.


#43
angelofsol
Posté 12 décembre 2014 - 08:19

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Mythal can say, when dealing with Morrigan and the Inquisitor in the Fade after the temple of Mythal that "...I was betrayed, the world was betrayed."  This depends on dialogue options and if you don't go down certain trains you won't get that rant.

I think it's dubious that the Elvhen gods were simply powerful spirits.  Maybe deified mages but I doubt they were simply spirits.... it would be difficult, to my mind, to murder a spirit.  Yes we know they can "die" and reform as something else later, maybe, but that doesn't seem to be what is going on with Mythal at all.  She hasn't "reformed" as something similar.  We're getting the sense of a soul here.... the Old Gods have souls, Mythal has a soul.... these things can live on or be transferred, albeit it Mythal seemed to wander disembodied and weakened for a bit before she found Flemeth.

I'm tending to lean towards the fact that what Coryphefish didn't with his dragon wasn't new... and that the Old Gods aren't really dragons but dragons with the soul of something greater invested with them.  Of course what that means suggests more questions than answers with the info we do have and is as much as a mystery as any other conjecture.


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