22 réponses à ce sujet

[Gedgehog]

I haven't posted in the Bioware forums for a long time, so let me say that it's a pleasure to be back, and I look forward to engaging with the game community!

 

I'd like to propose an addition to the game either through a patch or DLC; I think the game needs greater level scaling.

This would work best in the form of a tickable option under the 'Gameplay' tab, as I am aware that some people may not want enemies to always scale to their level as it would change the game, making it more difficult. I find that I am going back to do quests from areas where the enemies are capped at level 12 - 15 when I am level 19 - even bosses are easy to kill on Nightmare at this rate.

A tickable option would give everyone their preferred scaling method.

 

[saladinbob]

I don't think level scaling is the problem so much as a lack of high end areas are. I think the Hissing Wastes is the highest area at level 15-17, with the exception of Emprise Du Lion's Dragon Arenas.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I certainly wouldn't use it - I think Inquisition has too much scaling already - but I don't object to other people having options they like.

[MiyoKit]

Would welcome level scaling. I can understand them allowing people to advance through the game (level wise) without having to do every side quest, but for those who like to take their time and see/do everything, level scaling is really needed .

[Dubya75]

Personally I quite like how enemies are scaled in DAI, but I also get the impression that a lot of game "features" we are seeing in DAI are more like workarounds with the limitations and complexities of Frostbite 3.

Because if Bioware REALLY could make the game they always wanted to make, they would have kept all the tried and tested mechanics and features from previous games and expanded on those, instead of this entirely new set of...things.

 

I love the game, but I'm sure underneath is a lot of "We can't achieve that so let's do it this way".

 

So as much as I'd also like the option to turn level scaling on and off to mix things up, I very much doubt we will ever see that.

 

Hell, the devs are apparently having sleepless nights just implementing a simple walk toggle for PC!

[Servo to the bitter end]

I don't think level scaling is the problem so much as a lack of high end areas are. I think the Hissing Wastes is the highest area at level 15-17, with the exception of Emprise Du Lion's Dragon Arenas.

 

They scale within a certain range - I think that's the low end of that area. I'm working my way through Empris Du Lion right now, and everything is around 19-20, including the bears and RTs.

 

I was initially annoyed by this, but at this point I've sunk a ton of time into a playthrough and I haven't even touched (or unlocked) 3 of the zones (that I've far outleveled). I think having the freedom to choose the priorities of your character in this case is nice.

 

Wouldn't say no to a toggle if thats what people want though. I might use it in a future play.

[shadownian]

Sorry Miyo...again...but omfg no.

 

If they could make it an option, fine, im all about options.

But scaling to me is the worst thing you can do in an rpg. It defies logic and makes no sense.

 

For instance...

Im a level one warrior stepping into the world for the first time. I run across a wolf that attacks me. Now a wolf is a wolf. Well i beat it back, barely, and move on.

 

Now im lvl 10, ive grown in power and abilities. But that same wolf returns. He attacks and again im left battered and bruised and barely beat him.

 

So what exactly was the point of getting those 10 levels? Gaining all those abilities? If that same wolf can kill me at the same rate as when im level 1??

 

Absolutely none.

[Gedgehog]

They scale within a certain range - I think that's the low end of that area. I'm working my way through Empris Du Lion right now, and everything is around 19-20, including the bears and RTs.

 

I was initially annoyed by this, but at this point I've sunk a ton of time into a playthrough and I haven't even touched (or unlocked) 3 of the zones (that I've far outleveled). I think having the freedom to choose the priorities of your character in this case is nice.

 

Wouldn't say no to a toggle if thats what people want though. I might use it in a future play.

Where you say you've outlevelled areas you've previously unlocked, this is what I mean. having low level enemies in these areas makes visiting them a chore, beyond doing the odd story quest or a quick power grab.

 

Thanks all or your comments!

[Servo to the bitter end]

Where you say you've outlevelled areas you've previously unlocked, this is what I mean. having low level enemies in these areas makes visiting them a chore, beyond doing the odd story quest or a quick power grab.

 

Thanks all or your comments!

 

Yep - I just think it's something that might be worth coming to terms with. As everyone who tried to 100% Hinterlands right out the door learned - it might just behoove us to skip some stuff. I might get more out of the Exalted Plains or Emerald gravesif I come through with a Dalish character than my current dwarf rogue (and I haven't even opened up either of those, or the Oasis. I'm level 20). If anything, it's more for future playthroughs.

[Sartoz]

I haven't posted in the Bioware forums for a long time, so let me say that it's a pleasure to be back, and I look forward to engaging with the game community!

 

I'd like to propose an addition to the game either through a patch or DLC; I think the game needs greater level scaling.

This would work best in the form of a tickable option under the 'Gameplay' tab, as I am aware that some people may not want enemies to always scale to their level as it would change the game, making it more difficult. I find that I am going back to do quests from areas where the enemies are capped at level 12 - 15 when I am level 19 - even bosses are easy to kill on Nightmare at this rate.

A tickable option would give everyone their preferred scaling method.

 

Non scaling zones is the whole idea of this game's design.  Which forces you to explore, get crafting material, make better gear, level up and come back to defeat the baddie. It's a big world out there and the designers want you to do some site seeing.

 

Besides, the option you want already exists. Just follow the main story arc.

[Gedgehog]

Sorry Miyo...again...but omfg no.

 

If they could make it an option, fine, im all about options.

But scaling to me is the worst thing you can do in an rpg. It defies logic and makes no sense.

 

For instance...

Im a level one warrior stepping into the world for the first time. I run across a wolf that attacks me. Now a wolf is a wolf. Well i beat it back, barely, and move on.

 

Now im lvl 10, ive grown in power and abilities. But that same wolf returns. He attacks and again im left battered and bruised and barely beat him.

 

So what exactly was the point of getting those 10 levels? Gaining all those abilities? If that same wolf can kill me at the same rate as when im level 1??

 

Absolutely none.

You raise good points here, but for me the option of having level scaling means the game remains consistently challenging. It is my hope that such a feature would means that the wolf would still be easier to kill because of the skills we've mastered and the strength we've gained, while not being a walkover. That said, your point is well made, Bioware would have to ensure it doesn't become silly.

[shadownian]

Where you say you've outlevelled areas you've previously unlocked, this is what I mean. having low level enemies in these areas makes visiting them a chore, beyond doing the odd story quest or a quick power grab.

 

Thanks all or your comments!

See to me having same level enemies in areas you already went to and are just going back to to finish a quest or what have you, makes no sense.

To me thats more annoying. If i go back just to complete a quest, I want to get in and get out. I dont want to be back in an area i already explored and have to spend hours fighting my way thru when all i want to do is finish up some loose ends. Thats annoying to me...lol Id much rather just slash right thru the lowbies and be on my way. lol. It makes the whole idea of leveling and getting new armor and equipment a purpose. If everything scales to your level, might as well just skip to the end and fight the end boss and get it over with at lvl 1. Cause the challenge will be the same and all your abilities and armor and levels will account for nothing.

[MiyoKit]

Sorry Miyo...again...but omfg no.

 

If they could make it an option, fine, im all about options.

But scaling to me is the worst thing you can do in an rpg. It defies logic and makes no sense.

 

For instance...

Im a level one warrior stepping into the world for the first time. I run across a wolf that attacks me. Now a wolf is a wolf. Well i beat it back, barely, and move on.

 

Now im lvl 10, ive grown in power and abilities. But that same wolf returns. He attacks and again im left battered and bruised and barely beat him.

 

So what exactly was the point of getting those 10 levels? Gaining all those abilities? If that same wolf can kill me at the same rate as when im level 1??

 

Absolutely none.

 

The OP talked about it being optional...

[Efvie]

You raise good points here, but for me the option of having level scaling means the game remains consistently challenging.

 

Requiring scaling to keep the game challenging means your level design and story progression have failed.

[shadownian]

Requiring scaling to keep the game challenging means your level design and story progression have failed.

Exactly.

[MiyoKit]

Requiring scaling to keep the game challenging means your level design and story progression have failed.

 

That may be true for linear games, but open world games have long had some form of level scaling. If you give people a choice as to what to do (instead of taking them by the hand on rails) some will level high and others low. DA:O & DA:2 both had level scaling because they allowed you to choose where to go first.

[Lilacs]

(Possible Spoiler. Please be aware)

 

The way Dragon Age: Inquisition handles enemies difficulty is just right; it is gradient. The exception to this is the Hinterlands, for it was designed to be the way it is, where our hero/heroine  encounters enemies of varying levels, and I believe it was designed to give us, the players, a feel for the game: first hand with that mixture of levels within that zone.  The rest of the zones become available at the War Table, where one can pursue them at our leisure, whether our hero/heroine is low,, same or higher level than the enemies in those zones. What I enjoy in  this installment in the world of Thedas is the freedom to go in any area one chooses if said area is available or if it has been opened via the War Table.

 

Revisiting areas is optional to the player. The player might want to return to fight previous encounters that couldn't be defeated at a  lower level or an encounter,  despite the same level, our hero/heroine couldn't defeat due to some challenges : may it be gear, party composition (Our hero/heroine  probably hasn't encountered or hasn't  recruited the  party member who could have helped defeat that enemy yet.). Or  we might simply desire to return  to the previous zones to farm for materials (mats),  or to simply enjoy the beauty of the game.  For me, that was decidedly a great choice there by the  Devs.

[Wulfsten]

There's lazy level scaling and thorough level scaling.

 

Lazy would be to just buff critter enemies with your level so that you're always facing the same amount of challenge.

 

Thorough would be to add new, tougher enemies, or more enemies, and give a pretext as to why this area is tougher. For example, the Hissing Wastes works as a higher level area because it's remote in the way that the hinterlands are not. A dwarven thaig could be colonised by Shrieks and Hurlock Alphas, and could easily work as a level 21+ area with high level loot for buff parties.

[Wulfram]

Non scaling zones is the whole idea of this game's design.  Which forces you to explore, get crafting material, make better gear, level up and come back to defeat the baddie. It's a big world out there and the designers want you to do some site seeing.

 

Besides, the option you want already exists. Just follow the main story arc.

 

Non level scaling stops me from exploring and doing some site seeing, because doing that results in me out-levelling the boss

[Yulia]

do need scaling bad haha. I'm lvl 18 and 95 hours into game and I have not even visited the empress yet so i'm only half done with story. plus there's still like 5-6 other big open world areas to explore so I imagine ill be lvl 23-25 (idk lvl cap, have not been there yet) and overpowering literally everything I fight. I'm already overpowering everything, I think a few lvl 20 dragons  are all that's left that might present a challenge if I do them now, if I fight them later ill smother them pretty easily lol. I love the game but the lvl system could've been done better. it doenst even matter what difficulty i'm on at this point when I can wipe everything in 3 or less hits (i'm a sword and shield warrior) and most regular mobs in 1.

[Efvie]

That may be true for linear games, but open world games have long had some form of level scaling. If you give people a choice as to what to do (instead of taking them by the hand on rails) some will level high and others low. DA:O & DA:2 both had level scaling because they allowed you to choose where to go first.

 

Yeah, and if you just dilly-dally while the world burns then the game should end

 

 

On a more serious note, this is what I mean by story progression. In a fully realized game, if you decide to go to area B before area A, and in the process overlevel yourself for A, then one solution would for example some enemies from B to flee  to A, or for Big Baddy to reroute reinforcements to A to try to strengthen hold there instead. There’re literally infinite ways of solving this problem without level 15 nugs.

[devSin]

I don't mind the scaling in exploration areas (though it is amusing considering how much time they spent saying there was no scaling), but I do wish that story missions had no upper limit to scaling (it's fine to set a minimum, but in an open-world game, it feels too restrictive to have a range of only 3 or 4 levels).

[b10d1v]

Some has been done already areas that were previously "farmed" out at some low level would be largely empty and now there are some enemies that are at your level along with some low level ones.