85 réponses à ce sujet

[Natureguy85]

I agree with everything here, but the "warning" moment cam when your Mom begged you not to bring them into the deep rads road before the expedition. It was a very ambiguous way to do it though.

 

Yeah, which is where the genre savvy comes in. I figured there would be something I could do to keep something bad from happening, so I was annoyed when Bethany just dropped seemingly out of nowhere. I felt like they should have shown her getting sick. Someone did point out to me that there is a cutscene where you see your sibling slow down and hold their face in the background as Hawke is talking to someone else. I thought that was a cool, subtle hint.

[Merle McClure II]

I don't have a problem with Hawke not being able to save her mother, as not even the hero can be everywhere at once and rushing in to save the day only to get slapped with reality was a nice change of pace.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't have a problem with Hawke not being able to save her mother, as not even the hero can be everywhere at once and rushing in to save the day only to get slapped with reality was a nice change of pace.

Except that you should have at least had the option to slit the villain's throat years before. Seriously. He continues using a facility that you know him to have used. Any tabletop villain who tried that would never have even seen Leandra.

[Little Princess Peach]

Bioware just love to kill off in game families

Couslands

Hawkes

Arls family

 many more

[Bann Duncan]

And yet people still fangirl over Orsino...

[Luckyanna]

And yet people still fangirl over Orsino...

 

If people can fangirl over the Architect, nothing else will surprise me. Unless they fangirl over Harvester!Orsino... don't even want to think about it...

[actionhero112]

Because you can't save everyone. Both in this game, and in real life. This fervent childish passion that you can save everyone is a falsehood. It continues the theme present in the story from the outset of the game. No matter how much power and strength Hawke accumulates, he/she cannot save everyone. 

 

Sometimes people just die. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Because you can't save everyone. Both in this game, and in real life. This fervent childish passion that you can save everyone is a falsehood. It continues the theme present in the story from the outset of the game. No matter how much power and strength Hawke accumulates, he/she cannot save everyone. 

 

Sometimes people just die. 

This theme is a good premise for a game, but the theme loses something when you consider the content of the post four posts up from yours. If they'd at least killed Leandra through circumstances Hawke could not have stopped without precognitive powers, I'd have said it was well done. As it is, it really wasn't: if he or Aveline had shown any common sense Quentin would be dead very early on.

[actionhero112]

The theme loses something when you consider the content of the post four posts up from yours.

 

No it doesn't. 

 

Leandra is dead. This mental tantrum that "maybe if the game designers allowed us to do this," is only hurting you. You need to accept that not everything in the game or in real life is going to be within your power to change. 

 

As for Hawke it's a reminder that he/she still is unable to save those close to her, but that she shouldn't distress about it anymore. This is character development. It's good for the game. 

[HTTP 404]

If hard work does not equate into a quality product I see no reason to praise it.

 

you don't have to praise it or call it good.  questioning work ethics even if they are misdirected as being "lazy" is a "lazy" way to point it out.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No it doesn't. 

 

Leandra is dead. This mental tantrum that "maybe if the game designers allowed us to do this," is only hurting you. You need to accept that not everything in the game or in real life is going to be within your power to change. 

 

As for Hawke it's a reminder that he/she still is unable to save those close to her, but that she shouldn't distress about it anymore. This is character development. It's good for the game. 

Yes it does.

 

Hawke or Aveline could very likely have saved Leandra years before she died due to Quentin's idiotic continued use of a facility the City Guard had traced him to. Do you really think that facility wouldn't have been searched in real life? And yet Aveline makes clear that they never bothered. If they were shooting for making Hawke and Aveline powerless, they missed. If they were shooting for making them idiots, they hit.

[actionhero112]

Yes it does.

 

Hawke or Aveline could very likely have saved Leandra years before she died due to his idiotic continued use of a facility the City Guard had traced him to. Do you really think that facility wouldn't have been searched in real life? And yet Aveline makes clear that they never bothered. If they were shooting for making Hawke and Aveline powerless, they missed. If they were shooting for making them idiots, they hit.

 

But they didn't.

 

Now she's dead.

 

You need to accept this.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

But they didn't.

 

Now she's dead.

 

You need to accept this.

I need to accept that Leandra is dead. And I have. You need to accept that this isn't because Hawke and Aveline are powerless, but because they lack common sense. They weren't unable to save Leandra. They just didn't. Maybe this was for the reasons you put forth, but if so Bioware dropped the ball.

[Abraham_uk]

I really liked Leandra. She was well fleshed out and more likeable than alot of characters one encountered in DA2. 

 

All the more reason for Leandra to die.

If it had been a character you didn't like very much would it have carried any emotional weight?

 

That said, her death should have had a bigger impact on the story and provided Hawke with some dialogue options that reflected some kind of grieving going on.

[uzivatel]

I need to accept that Leandra is dead. And I have. You need to accept that this isn't because Hawke and Aveline are powerless, but because they lack common sense. They weren't unable to save Leandra. They just didn't. Maybe this was for the reasons you put forth, but if so Bioware dropped the ball.

 

Why should Hawke do it? Hawke found the ring, the culprit fled, end of story.

While clearly visible to player, the entrance to the hideout is called "Hidden Trapdoor", which would suggest it was actually hidden.

[Joseph Warrick]

There was a dev post about this back in the days of yore. There was originally an option to save Leandra, but it was removed as it was obvious everyone would always do just that - far less dramatic.

 
Like it was obvious everybody would save Mordin?
 

Because you can't save everyone. Both in this game, and in real life. This fervent childish passion that you can save everyone is a falsehood.

You can't save Ketojan. Either he goes back with his owners or he kills himself. It makes sense because that's how the Qunari think. In a sense you should have expected it.

 

You can't save Mordin and Wrex in the same playthrough. One of them has to die. Do you see many people complaining about that one? No because there is audience participation. If you sabotage the genophage you should expect Wrex to realize it.

 

In my opinion Leandra should have died only if you side with the mages. Otherwise there is no connection with Quentin (oh, she looks like the guy's dead girlfriend - what a convenient coincidence!) and the effect it ends up having is just contrived drama that fails to connect with me.

[Natureguy85]

Yes it does.

 

Hawke or Aveline could very likely have saved Leandra years before she died due to Quentin's idiotic continued use of a facility the City Guard had traced him to. Do you really think that facility wouldn't have been searched in real life? And yet Aveline makes clear that they never bothered. If they were shooting for making Hawke and Aveline powerless, they missed. If they were shooting for making them idiots, they hit.

 

This is a good point considering they gave you a companion that is Guard Captain. Had they kept Aveline just a hard worker in an overworked and understaffed, apathetic, or corrupt organization and she was trying to do things on her own but was constantly blocked by higher-ups, this could work. But since she's in charge, then it's a screw up rather than being powerless.

[Solbranthius]

Sometimes characters have to die. Not for the sake of shock value, but realism. The hero being able to avoid any and every disaster makes for a dull and uninteresting story. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why should Hawke do it? Hawke found the ring, the culprit fled, end of story.

While clearly visible to player, the entrance to the hideout is called "Hidden Trapdoor", which would suggest it was actually hidden.

So? Aveline's men would have probably found it on a sufficiently thorough search, which Aveline doesn't order and Hawke to the best of my knowledge can't even suggest. They probably would also have seen it on a stake-out, and ditto there.

[uzivatel]

So? Aveline's men would have probably found it on a sufficiently thorough search, which Aveline doesn't order and Hawke to the best of my knowledge can't even suggest. They probably would also have seen it on a stake-out, and ditto there.

 

A guardsman or Templar missed a hidden door? They are army, not some CSI. But hey, you can even blame Aveline in-game, if that makes you feel any better. It makes about as much sense as blaming BioWare.

Why do you keep insisting Hawke should do something? Hawke did not have copy of the script to know and I suspect you did not know on your first play-through either. As far as Hawke is concerned he found more than he was looking for and the rest is Guard / Templar business.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

A guardsman or Templar missed a hidden door? They are army, not some CSI. But hey, you can even blame Aveline in-game, if that makes you feel any better. It makes about as much sense as blaming BioWare.

Why do you keep insisting Hawke should do something? Hawke did not have copy of the script to know and I suspect you did not know on your first play-through either. As far as Hawke is concerned he found more than he was looking for and the rest is Guard / Templar business.

I haven't actually played. I'm working of you Youtube and wikia. And they've given me the impression that Aveline didn't even suspect that something else was there. As for Hawke, I get the impression the game doesn't even let him suggest that she should do something beforehand. And that if you (rightly) blame Aveline for her incompetence she (rightly) points out Hawke was no better. (Though there is no option to point out that since she's the one who's supposed to do it, Hawke doesn't come off as bad.)

[uzivatel]

I haven't actually played. I'm working of you Youtube and wikia. And they've given me the impression that Aveline didn't even suspect that something else was there. As for Hawke, I get the impression the game doesn't even let him suggest that she should do something beforehand. And that if you (rightly) blame Aveline for her incompetence she (rightly) points out Hawke was no better. (Though there is no option to point out that since she's the one who's supposed to do it, Hawke doesn't come off as bad.)

 

Why should Aveline suspect it? the Guard most likely did some basic check on the place, when they cleared the bodies. They clearly did not find any mad mage's lair.

Why should Hawke suggest it? he does not know his mother is going to die there in three years ... unlike you, since you have read it on the internet.

 

Hawke may blame Aveline for failing her job in The Captain's Condolences, you may find videos on YouTube. May be better to play the game, although given the prior knowledge of the plot, it just wont be the same.

Too bad Emeric is dead, we could blame him.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why should Aveline suspect it? the Guard most likely did some basic check on the place, when they cleared the bodies. They clearly did not find any mad mage's lair.

Why should Hawke suggest it? he does not know his mother is going to die there in three years ... unlike you, since you have read it on the internet.

 

Hawke may blame Aveline for failing her job in The Captain's Condolences, you may find videos on YouTube. May be better to play the game, although given the prior knowledge of the plot, it just wont be the same.

Too bad Emeric is dead, we could blame him.

Hawke is involved. Why shouldn't he make suggestions? Especially since there's women dying. He doesn't know that his mother is going to be one of them, but why does that have to matter? The player should be allowed to play a Hawke who doesn't begrudge other women the care he'd show his own mother. And either way the fact that Quentin continues to use this lair seems to suggest that the guards didn't bother staking it out. (Unless he took a long holiday while the heat died down.) It'd be different if Aveline and Hawke were able to take sensible steps to make sure this lair wasn't in continued use and Leandra died anyway: that would fit the theme of limits on the hero's power that Actionhero sets forth. But we see no signs that this happened.

[uzivatel]

Why should he? There is no reason to assume there is hidden mad mage lair under the foundry. And really, why should Hawke pay that much attention to few murders? Those were hardly the first ones during Hawkes stay in Kirkwall. Hell, Hawke himself killed more people than most of the bad guys.

The events of Act II happen three years later, it could take weeks or months for Quentin to return and he could check whether the guards are there on regular basis since no-one knew who he was in the first place. Then again since the guardsmen or templars did not find his hideout, there was no reason to keep the guards there for prolonged period, was there?

Neither Hawke nor Aveline have the script of the game, there is no reason for them to know there is any lair.

 

May as well ask why Hawke did not murder Meredith at any point prior the finale.