102 réponses à ce sujet

[Giantdeathrobot]

I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one who noticed, but the new lore and information put the Dalish in a new perspective, and not a very good one.

 

First, the whole thing about them not really knowing their past at all. That's excusable to a degree, they're holding on to whatever scraps they think is Elven culture, even former slave tatoos. But the sheer ignorance is rather unfortunate for a group that seems to pride itself on being the last remnant of True Elven Culture and had a huge chip on their shoulders because of it. It seems even Morrigan knows more of elves than the Dalish.

 

Still, not as bad as the wonderful custom of dumping excess mages out the camp at seven and letting them fend for themselves. No friggin wonder Minaeve is pissed off at them and wants nothing to do with hr own culture. The Circles still seem preferable than being thrown into the wide world with no family, no clan, no protection, and no anti-demon training. Maybe not all clans practice this custom, true, but it's still an awful thing to do to a child.

 

Then, we learn from the Dalish on Solas's first personal quest (where you activate the Elven artifact) that her Keeper summoned a demon that wiped out the entre clan. How many Keepers or First did we see use dangerous magic to the detriment of their clan now? Zathrian, Merill, and now this. These folks don't seem to have much discipline with their magic.

 

And then, the final nail in the coffin comes in the Knights's Tomb: for some time it was (mostly) accepted that Red Crossing was an excuse by the Chantry to wipe out the Dales. Turns out, the Dalish did attack the town, for no other reason than one of their own decided not to follow their creed (so much for freedom eh?). So while the Exalted March might have been overkill, coupled with the fact that the Dalish refused to help during the Second Bligth it's still hard to feel sorry for them.

[Kirikou]

I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one who noticed, but the new lore and information put the Dalish in a new perspective, and not a very good one.
 
First, the whole thing about them not really knowing their past at all. That's excusable to a degree, they're holding on to whatever scraps they think is Elven culture, even former slave tatoos. But the sheer ignorance is rather unfortunate for a group that seems to pride itself on being the last remnant of True Elven Culture and had a huge chip on their shoulders because of it. It seems even Morrigan knows more of elves than the Dalish.
 
Still, not as bad as the wonderful custom of dumping excess mages out the camp at seven and letting them fend for themselves. No friggin wonder Minaeve is pissed off at them and wants nothing to do with hr own culture. The Circles still seem preferable than being thrown into the wide world with no family, no clan, no protection, and no anti-demon training. Maybe not all clans practice this custom, true, but it's still an awful thing to do to a child.
 
Then, we learn from the Dalish on Solas's first personal quest (where you activate the Elven artifact) that her Keeper summoned a demon that wiped out the entre clan. How many Keepers or First did we see use dangerous magic to the detriment of their clan now? Zathrian, Merill, and now this. These folks don't seem to have much discipline with their magic.
 
And then, the final nail in the coffin comes in the Knights's Tomb: for some time it was (mostly) accepted that Red Crossing was an excuse by the Chantry to wipe out the Dales. Turns out, the Dalish did attack the town, for no other reason than one of their own decided not to follow their creed (so much for freedom eh?). So while the Exalted March might have been overkill, coupled with the fact that the Dalish refused to help during the Second Bligth it's still hard to feel sorry for them.

About kicking out mages, that seems to only be her shitty clan. Extra mages are usually given to other clans that need them at their ten year meeting thing. Merrill is not originally from the Sabrae clan after all.

[Sah291]

Yes this is true...although I can't say in past games they were ever really viewed in a positive light. They were always protrayed as being very insular, hostile to outsiders/humans, etc.

[Kantr]

In masked Empire one of them Summons and traps Imshael one of the forbidden ones who taught mankind blood magic.

[TheJediSaint]

To be fair, none of the Dragon Age games have covered the Dalish in glory.

[Reznore57]

I actually think the Dalish are even more cooler?

Because they're even more tragic.

 

It's highly possible they are the descendant of the slaves of Arlathan , at one point they got free from the most powerful magical empire.

Then they got preyed upon by Tevinter , they managed to free themselves again fighting alongside Andraste.

Then they got a land and those people tried to recreate their own version of the elven empire , thinking their ancestors were nobles and stuff...

They got again destroyed.

The Dalish decided they'd rather live in forest than to bow down to human culture.

 

At the very least it shows those people are resistant , they keep on fighting and losing maybe , but they're still trying ...

[OHB MajorV]

Elfs always kinda get portrayed as selfish introverts in all fantasy mediums. I'm not sure why, but it seems the norm in fantasy. I guess the same could be said about dwarfs and the two have striking parallels in DA. There's the old way (underground/dalish) who have less than flattering opinions of their more mainstream counter parts (surface/city). So to that end Bioware has went deeper than most in trying to build some sympathy for at least a sub sect of the races.

[Sasie]

Personally I think they just show a more realistic view of what it might be like to live as wandering nomads searching for a history that's been gone for over a thousand years. The fact that they managed to keep anything at all is impressive. Also even with their ten year meetings they simply are gone from each other for such a long time that each clan are starting to develop some habbits and customs of their own.

Then if there is some truth to the player's own dialog choices it seems like most dalish don't even care that much about regaining what is lost. They spend more time doing menial tasks like hunting for food or staying away from humans then they do searching or digging through old ruins. The dalish have a culture and they don't seem interested in finding out more of it.

All in all I still like the dalish, their life style sure beats moving into a alienage, not to mention people should be allowed to choose their own beliefs. In a human town they could never worship any other god but the Maker. I think at the core the essence of being dalish is not actually regaining their past but to remain free and not allowing other races or cultures to dictate their lives. What makes it extremely sad their face tattoos are a mark of slavery.

The scene when the dalish Inquisitor finds out is my favorite part of the game. 

[Sah291]

To be fair, none of the Dragon Age games have covered the Dalish in glory.

Yep, that's true of pretty much all the other factions/cultures, though. They all get raked through the coals...even the wardens fell from grace in this latest game.

[Casuist]

To be fair, the Red Crossing revelation unsurprisingly pins some healthy blame on both sides. Solas makes a comment, even before the records are found, expecting that the truth on the Emerald Knights likely lies in-between the Chantry and Dalish perspectives. 

 

Expecting the Dalish - remnants of the Elves following enslavement under Tevinter, and the destruction of the Dales, to have a clear picture of Arlathan would probably be expecting too much. The complexity of the history, how it feeds into the setting and indeed into what is going on in the main conflicts of DA:I is pretty compelling.

[Lennard Testarossa]

The Dalish are a bunch of pathetic, forest-dwelling savages. They never were anything other than that.

[MoonDrummer]

Still, if I was teleported into the dragon age universe, warped into an elf and told to choose between being a city elf or a dalish elf, I would choose dalish in a heartbeat.

[Chaos17]

Bioware loves bash elves in this serie.

It's like ne of writer hate them to the core and want them to look like tramps.

That's not in that serie where we will meet wise, mighty and cool elves.

 

I'm ok with that and probably the reason why I will stim play elf instead of dwarf because I want them to be happy.

[eternalshiva]

I found it kind of hilarious, actually, that their whole existance is based on complete misinformation. When Solas says he tried to correct them, he was outright denied and the Ancient Elves in Mythal straight up laughed at the histories stories Morrigan was telling them and Dorian's reaction to it had me in stitches.

 

WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT WASN'T TEVINTERS FAULT?? BUT OUR MISPLACED PRIIIIIDE.

 

Ancient elves: lolnope, our fault. Dred Wolf isn't even part of this - wow you guys are way off the mark. Tsk.

 

Solas smirking, ancient elves laughing forever.

 

Also, ancient elves were tall as f**k.

[Sah291]

Still, if I was teleported into the dragon age universe, warped into an elf and told to choose between being a city elf or a dalish elf, I would choose dalish in a heartbeat.

Even the city elves aren't protrayed positively.

Dragon Age isn't about human triumph so much as it is about human failings, I think. The "dragon age" is supposed to be a time of great social unrest and upheaval. Every group in thedas seems to be corrupted somehow.

[jellobell]

I think Inquisition made the Dalish more sympathetic, actually. Despite all of their mistakes, they're still trying. All of these revelations just serves to make them more well-rounded. And this is coming from someone who didn't really care about the Dalish before.

 

It's also the reason I find playing an elf in Inquisition to be the most interesting version of the story.

[angelofsol]

To me it lends credence that the Elves that survived were the slaves, not the nobles.  Only slaves would likely turn the vallaslin into marks of pride.  Any "nobles" that might have survived allowed themselves to dissappear into the slave castes for the sake of sheer survival... they didn't want to stand out to Tevinter for one, but more likely they didn't want slave caste elves to kill them like it seems happened.  So much points to a very widespread revolt of Elvhen slaves.  Tevinter may not have even been an issue.  I get the sense that part of the reason Tevinter was able to conquer the elves might have been because most of what was left were slaves, slaves without any real dirrection and having problems amongst themselves (if the nobility was already dead or in hiding at that point).

Also too, if it was the bulk of slaves who survived not much of the culture would have survived, period.  The slaves would not have kept much of it alive at all, this coupled with slaves not being the most literate or have even an ounce of mystic power when compared to higher elven castes.

We know that only the Keepers have the knowledge to know more of the Elvhen language than the Dalish (potentially they can even read a little bit of it which the Dalish as a whole can read none of it from one source in the game).  If the Keepers have an inkling from the truth it behooves them to keep it from the rest of the Dalish.  Our people come from slaves, we have always been slaves is not the greatest party line for morale.  It seems the Dalish are playing they're own politics.  Could also be why Solas got run out by many Dalish when he tried to share what he "found in the fade" (*coughs* knew first hand and lived through).  Any REAL truth about the elves would be a threat to Dalish pride, and thus propaganda is all the Keepers really have and prefer.

[errantknight]

Every group gets shown in a bad light at different times through the series. Mages, templars, wardens, seekers, elves, tevinter, the chantry--they all get their share. I think that's the point. Each group is at least partially responsible for their own difficulties.

[Ashagar]

I always suspect the city elves were those who lived in settlements in the dales and likely had a slightly different culture than the groups that became the dalish and thus had different elven traditions they preserved even if they no longer follow the elven gods like the great tree at the center of the alienages. They might have had issues even back then within the dales between the two groups.

[SandiKay0]

What if the city elves are the last remnants of the elf nobles? They have no tattos.

[MoonDrummer]

What if the city elves are the last remnants of the elf nobles? They have no tattos.

because they don't have the ability to create them, pretty sure magic is involved.

[Feybrad]

You know, who treats the Elves decently like everyone else? The Qunari.

 

The Qun is the only Hope for the elven race.

 

Convert now!

[Ashagar]

City elves produce mages just as the dalish do but those mages are taken to the circles or become apostates.

 

As for the ancient elven nobility, from what we know the high rulers of the elven empire like the rulers of Tevintor before the magistors came to power were dreamers and that the elven slaves rose up and killed them after the empire had been badly weakened by infighting.

[LadyJaneGrey]

As others have said, the Dalish have not been portrayed flatteringly in ANY game.  My first Warden was Dalish so I had a reasonably good first impression.  Zathrian's reception to my second human Warden had my jaw on the floor.  Yeesh.  Let the wolves have 'em.

 

Since we have never seen the different clans gather or had a chance to interact with more than a few groups, it gives the writers and players some wiggle-room.  One Keeper, First, or general philosophy/attitude/survival tactics might be repugnant or they might be humane - but it can't define the entirety.  The clans are too isolated to have anything in common besides "try not to die," "share what history we recover," and "make sure each clan has enough mages."

 

It keeps the culture and stories engaging.  If the Dalish were all sad and accepting and spent their days making daisy chains for the halla, I wouldn't care.  Watching a group get kicked so hard and so often and still refuse to conform even when I feel like they KNOW things can never improve?  That's interesting.

 

I really hope the next one focuses more on dwarven history and the caste system.  They have the same fighting-a-losing-battle vibe but feel like they could actually WIN if they spent more time focused on the darkspawn and trade than on being angry at the other city state and the fact that casteless exist.