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suggestion for bioware from Origins fans


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#51
shadownian

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See bioware has this thing they do with games in recent years....

 

Mass Effect...

Part one was an amazing game that set the world it took place in and the rules of that world. It made sense and was an overall excellent game.

Part two was stripped down massively and made alot of poor design choices. For instance armor, in the second game they basically threw that away like, who needs armor, we got skin tight outfits!!!

Part 3 restored just a bit of what was taken out but mostly did a half as job of it. Made it overly simple, and not as meaningful.

 

Dragon Age...

Part one established this amazing world and its rules.

Part two stripped almost everything out and made alot of poor design choices.

Part three tried to fix alot of those things that got left out but did a half a@@ job of it. And what they did put back was done poorly.

 

I see a pattern here...

 

Problem is, you still have people that will eat up whatever they are given with a smile on their faces. No matter how bad it smells or how little they are given, they will always say how great it is.

 

And Bioware and EA love those type of people.


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#52
Xralius

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Exactly shadownian. If we dont start holding them accountable with our wallets they will just keep ruining the games we love and the worlds they take place in.
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#53
Spectre Impersonator

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I strongly disagree about the combat. Combat in Origins looked like actual combat, not stupid flashy VFX everywhere. As for quests ... not sure what you're looking for, both games had some great quests along with a lot of horrible/boring ones.

Origins was certainly not perfect, but it sure has a lot of things I'd wish to see return (combat, skill system, classes).

What...? The combat was "you hit me, I hit you" almost turn-based in it's boringness. At least you can practice some form of defense in Inquisition and attack when you want to instead of whenever your lazy character feels like swinging a sword. I agree about the bright VFX being annoying as I prefer more realistic combat as well, however Origins was NOT realistic in the slightest.


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#54
KingAgamemnon

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Having played games before that are, in fact, literally unplayable, I'm forced to think that all of the #unplayable crowd are whiny tw@s. I swear to god, the longer I live the more I understand everyone who calls gamers entitled. I'm started to feel ashamed of being part of this subculture. By all means, have your opinion - but can you please not act in such a way that causes everyone else who is not part of our subculture to hate us? I get that you're all upset, and I can't force you to like the game, but I'd highly recommend stepping back, taking a deep breath, and reassessing this "unplayable" game, which is nowhere near unplayable.

 

And for the record: I've played every BioWare game since KOTOR. I've played them all on PC. They've all had their ups and downs. On the whole, I personally feel that their games have gotten better. I threw hundreds of hours of my life into the "good" (read: old) BioWare games, so I'm not some little ADHD console kid jumping onto the scene right after my hourly Crank of Duty fix.


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#55
Xralius

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KingA are you on Bioware's payroll or has it really been that long since you played Origins?
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#56
CronoDragoon

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I had thumbs up all through this thread. Many truths. I wager BW agree on some level and are frustrated.

 

I'm sure they are crying into their Game of the Year cake.

 

Suggestion for BioWare from a fan of Origins and Inquisition: laugh at this thread and pay attention to the better critical threads on this board.


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#57
Xralius

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Anyone who thinks this game is good either.
A. Never played Origins.
Or
B. Has not played Origins in a long time.
Or
C. Don't care about RPG elements.
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#58
KingAgamemnon

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KingA are you on Bioware's payroll or has it really been that long since you played Origins?

Yes, you caught me, I'm on BioWare's payroll.

 

Let me give you my short and sweet review of Origins:

*Bad combat

*Good story

*Deep Roads sucked

*Completely derivative (Disagree? Read A Song of Ice and Fire.)

*Archdemon looked stupid

*Morrigan, Sten, and Oghren were awesome

*Giving presents to people makes them have sex with you

 

I played the game almost exclusively in tactical cam not because I liked it (I did, but that's beside the point) but because the god awful combat made it necessary. The characters I remember were Morrigan, Sten, Oghren, Alistair, Dog, Zevran, and obviously Leliana - though not because I found her to be compelling. I played a human noble warrior and laughed out loud every time they stole something from GRRM. I attempted to go back and play it again just before Inquisition was released, but I decided that I'd rather not subject myself to the garbage gameplay again.

 

Did I like it? Yes. Do I remember it? Mostly. Origins is not a better game than Inquisition. Why? Because that's my opinion, and opinions are subjective. I've met people who really like things that I don't. That doesn't make me right and them wrong, or vice versa. You like Origins better. Great. I like Inquisition better. Lots of people do. I get it that you don't actually think I work for BioWare (though trust me, I would if the opportunity ever arose) but is that honestly the only response you have for me? 

 

Edit: As to your above post, yeah, great job generalizing. I can generalize too: go back into your D&D cave and take some vitamin D. See how silly that makes me sound?



#59
CronoDragoon

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Anyone who thinks this game is good either.
A. Never played Origins.
Or
B. Has not played Origins in a long time.
Or
C. Don't care about RPG elements.

 

Have you ever played Dragon Age Origins on console?


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#60
OctagonalSquare

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I love DAO and DAI. Don't try to speak for me.

 

kthxbai


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#61
Shechinah

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D. Has a different opinion than you.


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#62
Owlbear

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I don’t think that either Origins or Inquisition had particularly interesting combat. (Based on poor reviews, I didn’t play DA2 so I can’t comment on that.) Origins had a better tactical combat option (in the PC version) but playing in tactical mode was tedious and time-consuming, and I ultimately preferred lowering the difficulty so as to turn off friendly fire and play in realtime, letting my companions fend for themselves using the AI.

 

As an action-based system, I think that Inquisition is generally better, though the fights had a somewhat higher degree of sameness to them: I rarely changed my basic tactics regardless of what I was fighting. A lot of the time, I didn’t even really know what I was fighting. Just more red dots on the radar screen to kill and loot.

 

If you look at Baldur’s Gate and its sequels, you can see how much tactically richer the combat was. There were perhaps fewer battles, but there was a greater variety of enemies, requiring meaningfully varied tactics to defeat. And, for the most part, bosses weren’t just regular enemies with a million hit points: they could be defeated quickly, but they could also defeat you quickly. Compare fighting Firkraag with fighting any Dragon Age dragon. Most Baldur’s Gate fights were over quickly one way or another, with the occasional battle where neither side got a decisive initial advantage and it turned into a slugfest or running combat that consumed lots of resources. Speaking of which, another difference was the importance of resource management both during and between fights. You couldn’t just unleash your most powerful spells on the first goblin you saw, because you might need them later. In Dragon Age, there’s little point in not using your best stuff first, since the cooldown-based mechanic translates into use early, use often. All of these things lead to a sameness in DA combat resulting in the action being much more interesting than the tactics.

 

I see combat in DA games as something to add some action sequences in between story and exploration elements, rather than a meaningful challenge in its own right. For that, the action-oriented design works better, and easier fights that don’t require frequent reloading are less immersion-breaking. Overall, my biggest complaint with Dragon Age combat has always been that there is too much of it and so it ends up turning into a tedious grind, especially the boss fights where you have to grind away using the same tactics over and over until you win or lose focus and get killed.

 

That’s not to say that I wouldn’t appreciate a good tactical combat system in a DA game, but it would look nothing like anything we’ve seen in DA so far.


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#63
KingAgamemnon

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I don’t think that either Origins or Inquisition had particularly interesting combat. (Based on poor reviews, I didn’t play DA2 so I can’t comment on that.) Origins had a better tactical combat option (in the PC version) but playing in tactical mode was tedious and time-consuming, and I ultimately preferred lowering the difficulty so as to turn off friendly fire and play in realtime, letting my companions fend for themselves using the AI.

 

As an action-based system, I think that Inquisition is generally better, though the fights had a somewhat higher degree of sameness to them: I rarely changed my basic tactics regardless of what I was fighting. A lot of the time, I didn’t even really know what I was fighting. Just more red dots on the radar screen to kill and loot.

 

If you look at Baldur’s Gate and its sequels, you can see how much tactically richer the combat was. There were perhaps fewer battles, but there was a greater variety of enemies, requiring meaningfully varied tactics to defeat. And, for the most part, bosses weren’t just regular enemies with a million hit points: they could be defeated quickly, but they could also defeat you quickly. Compare fighting Firkraag with fighting any Dragon Age dragon. Most Baldur’s Gate fights were over quickly one way or another, with the occasional battle where neither side got a decisive initial advantage and it turned into a slugfest or running combat that consumed lots of resources. Speaking of which, another difference was the importance of resource management both during and between fights. You couldn’t just unleash your most powerful spells on the first goblin you saw, because you might need them later. In Dragon Age, there’s little point in not using your best stuff first, since the cooldown-based mechanic translates into use early, use often. All of these things lead to a sameness in DA combat resulting in the action being much more interesting than the tactics.

 

I see combat in DA games as something to add some action sequences in between story and exploration elements, rather than a meaningful challenge in its own right. For that, the action-oriented design works better, and easier fights that don’t require frequent reloading are less immersion-breaking. Overall, my biggest complaint with Dragon Age combat has always been that there is too much of it and so it ends up turning into a tedious grind, especially the boss fights where you have to grind away using the same tactics over and over until you win or lose focus and get killed.

 

That’s not to say that I wouldn’t appreciate a good tactical combat system in a DA game, but it would look nothing like anything we’ve seen in DA so far.

 

This is maybe the best analysis of combat in DA that I've seen so far, and it's exactly what I've been thinking but unable to articulate. Well said.


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#64
SkyKing

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Just apologize. For many Origins fans this game is borderline unplayable. I think we all understand the problems of this game are beyond controls/glitches; no amount of patching will help. Maybe next time you'll listen to your fans and actually make the sequel that Origins deserves. Either way, many of us will not be preordering your game and wait instead until we have reliable info on it, not just believe your boldfaced lies at face value AGAIN.

I feel exactly the same way. An apology won't cut it this time either.  I hope the fact prices are down to 40 means sales are hurting and hopefully they learn a good lesson.  After this though, all origins fans they lied to and that made this game a success, they'll lose all of our business from here on until they stop ignoring and lying to us. 



#65
Ceoldoren

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This stuff happens with every big franchise. Like Legend of Zelda. Everyone trashes the recent release until the next one comes out. Than the previous one was a classic and the new one is terrible. 


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#66
AlanC9

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Mass Effect...
Part one was an amazing game that set the world it took place in and the rules of that world. It made sense and was an overall excellent game.
Part two was stripped down massively and made alot of poor design choices. For instance armor, in the second game they basically threw that away like, who needs armor, we got skin tight outfits!!!


Throwing out the awful ME1 loot system was the right thing to do.
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#67
Harvest_King

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I enjoyed both origins, and inquisition. Inquisition greatly enhances that boring map point to map point exploring from Origins and at least tries to look like a sandbox, BUT Inquisition has also dumbed down gameplay and the AI by taking away things, like; Warrior duel-wielding, warriors able to use range weapons, mages able to heal, and simplifying behavior system.

 

So...after ten years in the game's world, warriors forgot how to use two weapons, mages were cut off from the part of the Fade that dealt with healing, and the majority IQ has dropped 60 points, as no one can decide to use when to use a regeneration potion.

 

Also, after a point of ten years, the armor has changed from metal, to a mix of metal, leathers and fabrics. Armor style has jumped ahead 200 years, BUT canons haven't even been developed yet. They're moving the armor style way to fast, why does my tank have on a leather coat and silk scarf, that somehow has more armor than a full metal body?


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#68
Ceoldoren

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Anyone who thinks this game is good either.
A. Never played Origins.
Or
B. Has not played Origins in a long time.
Or
C. Don't care about RPG elements.

Oh no, someone has a different opinion than me ! That makes them morons.

 

Opinions are subjective, you can't define them like that. 


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#69
SkyKing

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This stuff happens with every big franchise. Like Legend of Zelda. Everyone trashes the recent release until the next one comes out. Than the previous one was a classic and the new one is terrible. 

ITT: he must be a bioware employee or a troll.  I don't see anybody singing praises of DA2 right now.  Both DA2 and this game are horrible.  Bioware promised they were listening to origins fans, would make it as goo and better and didn't implement anything good that had been what made origins so great. 



#70
Shechinah

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So you don't count the implementation of multiple races as a good thing from Origins?



#71
SkyKing

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This stuff happens with every big franchise. Like Legend of Zelda. Everyone trashes the recent release until the next one comes out. Than the previous one was a classic and the new one is terrible. 

 

On the .04% chance you are sincere, did you ever play origins and what makes inquisition better than origins?  What makes inquistion good in regards to the story and how your choices have an impact on the game?  I really look forward to your answer for how choices have an impact since I couldn't find a single choice with a 2nd run when making opposite choices that had any sort of impact.  


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#72
KingAgamemnon

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ITT: he must be a bioware employee or a troll.  I don't see anybody singing praises of DA2 right now.  Both DA2 and this game are horrible.  Bioware promised they were listening to origins fans, would make it as goo and better and didn't implement anything good that had been what made origins so great. 

I've always said, and will continue to say, that I enjoyed DA2. It had its shortcomings and its improvements, and I wouldn't say it was better than Origins, but I liked them about the same. I'm not the majority, but there you go - at least one person who enjoyed DA2. 


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#73
Vox Draco

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Hi, I am a fan of DAO, still rank it higher than DAI but I love this sequel ...

 

PLEASE HELP ME! Obviously I have serious mental problems! What can I do to hate DAI as every "true" DAO-Fan obviously should!!! I seek professional help!


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#74
Shechinah

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I enjoyed and still enjoy DAII - for all of its flaws, I still find myself playing through it for the story and characters and finding the experience overall enjoyable despite the heavy flaws. I don't regret the purchase of the game nor of it's story-related dlc.


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#75
KingAgamemnon

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On the .04% chance you are sincere, did you ever play origins and what makes inquisition better than origins?  What makes inquistion good in regards to the story and how your choices have an impact on the game?  I really look forward to your answer for how choices have an impact since I couldn't find a single choice with a 2nd run when making opposite choices that had any sort of impact.  

I'll bite, though I know you weren't talking to me.

 

For me, Inquisition had the best story of the three games. For me, it was less a story about how the Inquisitor defeated Corypheus and more a story about how a religious icon was born, willing or not. That, to me, is a great story. Origins had a very tight - and also very derivative - story about one adventurer's Hero's Journey to save the world from Sauron. Er, I mean the Blight. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't as deep or far-reaching as Inquisition. DA:I was the origin story of someone who, in a few hundred years, will be remembered with as much fanatical devotion - and as much vitriol - as Andraste, who I think we can assume had a very similar origin. To me, that's a much more interesting and compelling story than DA:O's. DA:O's had it's place, and I'm not saying it was bad, but I do feel that DA:I's was better.

 

As for choices: well, the most glaring one would be who is elected as the new Divine by game's end. My first playthrough it was Leliana; my second, Cassandra. Those are to very different outcomes to one of the most powerful institutions in the entirety of Thedas. Another choice that comes to mind is whether or not you saved the Chargers, which decides whether or not you form an alliance with the Qunari. Obviously massive Qunari armies aren't shown on-screen, and any interaction you have with them thereafter is in text form. But do you really think that won't be a huge plot point somewhere down the line? It has the potential to enact a tremendous amount of change in Thedas.

 

Personally, I felt like there were a lot of choices that made a difference. If I may, though, I think you're under the impression that things changed more in DA:O than in DA:I, and I don't think that's the case. The majority of the choices you made in DA:O didn't come to fruition until the epilogue, and this was the same in DA:I. We're not going to see the majority of our effect on the world until later games, or perhaps DLC - but again, this was the same thing that happened in DA:O. Anyway, that's my two cents.


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