31 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

if you think about it, it overwhelms you how ridiculous it is:

 

How can you put years of your own hard work into one project (and I am sure they want people to like the game)

and don't realize what pure RNG will mean and do:

 

everybody knows it because it is simple math: after a short while of playing, the chance sharply goes down to get something useful.

After another while the chance gets virtually zero ==> 

zero lucky moments and tons of frustrating moments (you use your 1 weapon like forever).

 

 

While (e.g.) Mass Effect's RNG meant

happy moment after moment after moment where you got something new or upgraded   -

even after a very long time of playing.

 

 

How could they ever, ever exchange this system.... for what we are having here now?

I cannot think of ANY SINGLE reason.

Especially if you consider that it is the same developer.

 

 

People who have just collected a decent weapon base will go away soon and abandon the Multi Player.

Because the chance is like winning the lottery.

 

And let's face it: The loot system is simply a huge aspect of this game 

 

 

Bioware will say again: Then, why does this idiot play the game anyway??

 

Well, I feel I am in the last stage and just hope and see if the loot system gets changed.

Actually, I am a big fan of Bioware and they still have a lot of credit with me left.

But my friends and me won't stay much longer. OK, not that Bioware seems to care - just wanted to vent my feelings ;-)

[diagorias]

It's not totally RNG, you get better gear if you have a higher prestige (or time played, but I am guessing prestige), it still contains some amount of RNG though.

[Cryos_Feron]

It's not totally RNG, you get better gear if you have a higher prestige (or time played, but I am guessing prestige), it still contains some amount of RNG though.

who has ever confirmed that?

[SoulRebel_1979]

It's not totally RNG, you get better gear if you have a higher prestige (or time played, but I am guessing prestige), it still contains some amount of RNG though.

 

 

who has ever confirmed that?

 

Yeah, gonna need a source for that.

[diagorias]

No source, just my experience and from what I've seen from others. Only recently I've gotten in quick succession good weapons and runes. It was really noticeable with runes btw, it started with getting only lesser, but now I only get Superb, usually. If you don't believe that, then well, too bad.

[Shinnyshin]

While (e.g.) Mass Effect's RNG meant
happy moment after moment after moment where you got something new or upgraded -
even after a very long time of playing.


How could they ever, ever exchange this system.... for what we are having here now?
I cannot think of ANY SINGLE reason.
Especially if you consider that it is the same developer

Me3's ultra-rare grind was the most miserable RNG-fest I've ever played and I play a looooot of grindy games. I chain farmed Gold/Plat and was really, really excited if I got an upgrade once per week--I was on track for a 1500 hour manifest completion. My friend who chain farmed with me never ever got a PPR 1. I'm annoyed that this multiplayer didn't correct one of the clear shortcomings of the Me3 system that everyone on those forums pointed out constantly...especially since the crafting system was advertised as anti-RNG.

So it's the same Dev making the same mistakes rather than slipping backwards. Not sure if that makes it better or worse.

[HappySchwagg]

Nothing like having a forum full of threads about how ppl aren't lucky enough to get "end-game" gear and how many hours it would take, then followed by a week of threads about how they got their gear too quickly and there's nothing to work toward anymore. I love the internet.

[PurpGuy1]

liked for happy moments

[Cryos_Feron]

Nothing like having a forum full of threads about how ppl aren't lucky enough to get "end-game" gear and how many hours it would take, then followed by a week of threads about how they got their gear too quickly and there's nothing to work toward anymore. I love the internet.

yea, I know that this is the 1000. thread about that.

 

But please show me any place where Bioware has ever answered. 

 

Until that happens, players try to arouse attention...

[Bastion6six6]

"what did they think?" One of these is probably more accurate than bioware will want to admit.

 

1.  Well, a lot of the "lead" guys that previously made bioware what it is are gone, but we still have some great talent here and we're going to do our best!  Ignore the haters, this game is the PERFECT game and nobody could have ever made it better!  Don't listen to what they say about how this could have been better, what do they know?  They aren't game developers like us!  Our vision is immaculate, they couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend the complexity and difficulty involved with making a game!  Their suggestions on how to improve our already perfect game are foolish and ill-conceived!  100% RNG is perfect!  How has nobody ever thought of this before?!

 

2.  EA is breathing down our necks about this deadline guys, we absolutely MUST release before holiday 2014 so we can hit the market before black friday/christmas and won't have to compete with other fantasy RPGs that are coming out early next year.  Oh yeah...we have a multiplayer mode that isn't anywhere near finished...it doesn't matter, just clean it up, we'll fix it later through patches, we'll call it a feature!  People will love how we are supporting the mode even though all we are doing is what we should have done before the game released!  What?  Oh, thats right, EA requires us to include microtransactions, uh...just throw in the same system we had in ME3.  Who cares if the chests are all 100% RNG now, it doesn't matter, we just need to release on time.

 

3.  Eh, nobody cares about multiplayer for our games, just copy and paste most of the mechanics and systems 1:1 from the single player, how bad could it turn out?

 

(playing devils advocate here with a little bit of hyperbole, bioware, please dont hate me)

[J. Peterman]

[Beerfish]

The problem I have is that at least with Mass Effect 3 I knew what I needed over time to get the manifest up to being full.  Here I have no clue what is or is not available, thus tough to get excited about some purple items.

[Cryos_Feron]

Me3's ultra-rare grind was the most miserable RNG-fest I've ever played

Yes I partially agree to that. 

 

But at least you had the feeling to work towards something. I had my black widow on V and I still wanted to get that

last 5 evolutions. 

 

And I cannot think of any other solution to keep the ultra-hardcore-players busy who have played 1000 hours.

 

Here in DAI you have a stalemate already after 50-60 hours.

[Shinnyshin]

Yes I partially agree to that. 

 

But at least you had the feeling to work towards something. I had my black widow on V and I still wanted to get that

last 5 evolutions. 

 

And I cannot think of any other solution to keep the ultra-hardcore-players who have played 1000 hours.

 

Here in DAI you have a stalemate already after 50-60 hours.

My view of the systems is that DAI is probably a less time-intensive grind...I'll probably have everything I want somewhere around the 300ish hour mark.  But DAI's grind is much more frustrating because it's a binary yes/no, rather than the progression you mentioned.  That's a problem.  It's my view that in every grindy game, there should be both high-RNG (winning the lottery) and low-RNG-grind options (spend 20 hours worth of mats) for progression.  Currently, the system is massively distorted in the favour of high-RNG grind with the only low-RNG progression being promotions.  Which is a problem.  Not every player should have to gambler's fallacy their way through each lottery ticket until it eventually pays off (or doesn't, like with me in Me3).

 

I strongly feel that we should be able to increase the level of uniques by spending a ton of mats on 'em.  It's very silly for the overwhelming majority of uniques to be absolutely useless for anything but salvage--this hard-locks us into a double-layered lottery where we need both a unique and a high level.  Spending mats to upgrade things might amount to similar average times but would at least provide a sense of progression.  Another strong option would involve letting us choose a unique schematic from Weekend Events for a ton of mats...but that would require them actually rolling out Weekend Events soon.

[Cryos_Feron]

...but would at least provide a sense of progression.

 

 

This is the magic word

 

DAI is lacking a continuous feeling of making progress.

 

All these little sweet moments when you get something you can use.

 

I haven't had such moment in a week (please consider that this game is barely a month old !!)

[Cryos_Feron]

.... and if you cannot use something, you at least should know that it never will come again

[Arantir]

Bioware be like

 

[SectiplaveB4]

At least in ME3MP by the time you were battling the Ultra-Rare RNG grind (I quit not long into this grind when I had nothing but UR's left to get) you had a large selection of viable weapons for completing the hardest difficulty.

 

I'm sure there are plans coming to provide us different ways to get weapons, surely they wouldn't have a section called 'weapon crafting' in which you cannot actually craft a single weapon right!?

 

I would be highly suprised if we don't get schematics in the near future which ideally will have a minimum item level result.

[Drogonion]

Completely agree with the OP - and this coming from an ME3MP geek.  I haven't received a single thing to use out of a chest for well over a week.  And this after having my inventory reach it's full limit numerous times with useless crap, and crafting every single schematic possible with the deconstructed dross - even the Tier 1 stuff that would never be used.  Result: I don't play the DOIMP much anymore.  It's just not fun enough.  

 

During the countless hours I played the ME3MP, I never encountered an equivalent feeling of NO PROGRESSION sufficient to actually stop me from playing - as I am finding in DAI.  

[Dorje Sylas]

.... and if you cannot use something, you at least should know that it never will come again

Which worked in the Mass Effect 3 system because you didn't have limited Weapon space. Since MP hard caps at 200 items its not feasible or reasonable to "unlock" and hold on to a copy of every Rare or Unique item that drops.

 

What is 100% missing is the same crafting system the Single Player had, where you could craft both upgrades, weapons, and armor. Add in Accessories and we would be complete. If that crafting system were in place from the start we'd have our slow progression system, since every unwanted item would go towards progression. Its the best kind of compromise on an RNG loot system. Those with luck get some of the best stuff early, those without work toward what they want with each item pulled.

[KalGerion_Beast]

Which worked in the Mass Effect 3 system because you didn't have limited Weapon space. Since MP hard caps at 200 items its not feasible or reasonable to "unlock" and hold on to a copy of every Rare or Unique item that drops.

 

What is 100% missing is the same crafting system the Single Player had, where you could craft both upgrades, weapons, and armor. Add in Accessories and we would be complete. If that crafting system were in place from the start we'd have our slow progression system, since every unwanted item would go towards progression. Its the best kind of compromise on an RNG loot system. Those with luck get some of the best stuff early, those without work toward what they want with each item pulled.

You can get multiple of the same items.  Even holding onto an item means it has the chance to roll again.  AFAIK there is no way to lock a weapon from appearing again.  

[Hiero_Glyph]

To be fair, crafting should have made this a moot point entirely.  Instead, crafting is the biggest joke of a feature in the game.  Seriously, what purpose does it serve other than to demonstrate how cloth is majorly underrepresented in the game?

[Bastion6six6]

Surprised nobody has really mentioned this yet (if they have then I haven't seen it) but its pretty obvious that the reason why the loot system is the way it is in DAMP is because loot is handled different between ME and DA, and DAMP is more or less a copy of mechanics from the single player.  In ME, you don't get "loot" (barring ME1 which is extremely different in terms of gameplay).  When you find a new weapon, that is a STATIC piece of equipment.  It's always found in the same spot, it always has the same stats, they were all handcrafted and served their own purpose.  DA very much has "loot", for better or worse, and I don't think that system is going anywhere.  Bioware isn't going to create its own loot system for the MP, they are just going to use what the single player uses.  In short we will never have the loot system that MEMP had.  I would love to be wrong, but I'm not expecting it.  Like others have mentioned, a good way to turn this negative into a positive or at least something not so negative is to REALLY flesh out the crafting system.  That is something that bioware should be able to do rather effortlessly, since that system (like their loot system) is already implemented in the SP...although you still have to battle against RNG even in the single player to get good schematics.  Somebody at bioware didn't learn how to appropriately implement RNG into a game, but I suppose nobody is perfect.  Hopefully this will improve.

[Hiero_Glyph]

In truth, the level system that was pulled from the single player makes DAMP a complete mess.  The level system needs to be removed and replaced with a tier system just like armor and crafting materials have.  Seriously, who thought having level 1-18 items in DAMP was a good idea?  Once you get something better you will never need to use any of these.  The fact that low level unique items exist makes this twice as sad and pathetic.  It's just bad game design, especially when they had a solid foundation to build upon with ME3's MP.

[Bastion6six6]

In truth, the level system that was pulled from the single player makes DAMP a complete mess.  The level system needs to be removed and replaced with a tier system just like armor and crafting materials have.  Seriously, who thought having level 1-18 items in DAMP was a good idea?  Once you get something better you will never need to use any of these.  The fact that low level unique items exist makes this twice as sad and pathetic.  It's just bad game design, especially when they had a solid foundation to build upon with ME3's MP.

It is bad game design when you take how the MP works into account.  With the example you used, its bad design because they didn't really take into account 1. promotions and 2. how quickly you level up.  I mentioned in a previous thread days ago, low level uniques serve a purpose in the single player because it takes a LONG time to level up and there is no going back, no promotions or anything like that.  When you find a level 8 unique you typically don't get frustrated like you would in the multiplayer, because you are around that level for the next 2-4 hours most likely and probably won't find something better for a while.  In multiplayer, you go from 1-5 in ONE match, then each subsequent match will get you 1-2 levels (on appropriate difficulties) until around level 16.  Thats extremely fast for leveling up, even taking into account the fact that most matches average out at 20 minutes.

 

These are all just examples on how poorly the multiplayer was playtested.  Overall the way that DA's core mechanics work don't translate to a meaningful multiplayer component.  Luckily, it turned out to work with ME's mechanics, but DA uses different mechanics and it just can't be translated into MP 1:1, which is how bioware launched it.