16 réponses à ce sujet

[Torkelight]

If you like explosions you have come to the right place.

Now, this build might have been posted and talked about here before, but I just wanted to show you how I play it and set it up. I dont think alchemist can play the assassin better than the assassin, but I think it does have some great utility that not many other characters have in it's elemental mines.

Video link

 

I call it The Rainbow Alchemist

 

Skills:

 

Stealth (Upgrade)

Elemental mines (Upgrade)

Fire flask (Upgrade)

Shadow Strike (Upgrade)

 

Passives:
Ambush

Unforgiving chain

Evasion (essential)

Knife in the shadows

Easy to miss (essential)
I was never here (essential)

And take them down

Sneak attack

Dance attack

Fighting dirty

Alchemy mastery

 

...and I guess the last two points are optional.

 

How to play: You will constantly be stealthed so you can either start the battle stealthed or use it after your first volley of mines, pop fire flask and just spam elemental mines in a good arch in front of enemeies. Pop stealth again, and proceed to take out the backline. Shadow strike can be used for finishing and/or refresh some of your CD like stealth or mines. Doesnt seem to help on fire flask though, unfortunatly which would be great.

 

I'm using Blade of the red birth and walking death here, and many people argue that this build is useless on threatening with lower DPS, but I think you can make it work. On perilous though, I think you really need good CC and a tank to make it work well. But then again, the reason why I posted this is that I find it so fun to play. 

I also play a bit sloppy in the video, and I forgot to put on my +10% healt on kill and CD amulet for some reason, which would make the run a bit more convincing and I wouldnt have died in the end - but at that point the battle was technically over.

Have fun.
 

[Saboteur-6]

Thanks for the guide Torke. What sort of Dagger priority is ideal in terms of stats? Like... Should I avoid AoE daggers?

[themageguy]

Thanks for the guide Torke.

[Trickshaw]

Not a fan, personally.

[gay_wardens]

I don't think people give Elemental Mines enough credit. They are insanely good for crowd control. Just funnel the enemies through the doorway on the final boss. 

 

The only thing that's really wrong with the Alchemist is Frost Flask. It has its uses, but with only 4 ability slots it's just not useful enough, and usually just winds up getting you killed.

 

If it actually worked correctly with the ability that gives it +3 seconds duration, you could run in, use Fire Flask, Elemental Mines, Ice Flask then get out. But what winds up happening is even though Fire Flask says "abilities cost no stamina" if you use the upgrade to Elemental Mines, it consumes all your stamina every time you use it during Fire Flask, so at the end there's not enough stamina left to get the buff on Ice Flask. The only way it works is by using Ice Flask first, then Fire Flask, but that's bad tactics.

[mission555]

Prefer getting Knockoutbomb instead of Ele mines but to each their own.

[EnemySpinach]

I don't think people give Elemental Mines enough credit. They are insanely good for crowd control. Just funnel the enemies through the doorway on the final boss. 

 

The only thing that's really wrong with the Alchemist is Frost Flask. It has its uses, but with only 4 ability slots it's just not useful enough, and usually just winds up getting you killed.

 

If it actually worked correctly with the ability that gives it +3 seconds duration, you could run in, use Fire Flask, Elemental Mines, Ice Flask then get out. But what winds up happening is even though Fire Flask says "abilities cost no stamina" if you use the upgrade to Elemental Mines, it consumes all your stamina every time you use it during Fire Flask, so at the end there's not enough stamina left to get the buff on Ice Flask. The only way it works is by using Ice Flask first, then Fire Flask, but that's bad tactics.

This actually happens because of hitting the last Elemental Mine right after Fire Flask ends. If you count your mines, you can use it one less time and voila. Though it's still probably better to get that last use out of it than using a slot on Frost Flask.

[CaoSlayer]

A pro-tip for elemental mines, heal on hit weapons work with the mines and so you can heal a huge ammount of hp with a fire flask volley.

 

And more, if you are knocked down and an enemy steps into a mine, you will get back on your feet.

[gay_wardens]

This actually happens because of hitting the last Elemental Mine right after Fire Flask ends. If you count your mines, you can use it one less time and voila. Though it's still probably better to get that last use out of it than using a slot on Frost Flask.

 

No it doesn't. You're wrong.

[Torkelight]

This actually happens because of hitting the last Elemental Mine right after Fire Flask ends. If you count your mines, you can use it one less time and voila. Though it's still probably better to get that last use out of it than using a slot on Frost Flask.

This is good tactics. Best way to avoid any damage after your mines-volleys is if you count how many you can cast you use your last opportunity to cast stealth so that you avoid most damage that could come your way. It's pretty smart to do.

You can also get your stealth CD reset if you have "I was never here", and you manage to get a kill quickly on your volleys, but I wouldnt always bet on it.

[Torkelight]

Thanks for the guide Torke. What sort of Dagger priority is ideal in terms of stats? Like... Should I avoid AoE daggers?

Yeah, I'd avoid AOE daggers personally but mostly because my singletarget daggers are much better. For this build I personally use Red birth and Walking death (sp?), but not everyone has those daggers... I think this build will still be viable will a bit less damage, as it excels on CC on larger groups and in the choke on stage 5.

I should post a new video for this as my gameplay in the video honestly suck. It can be played much better.

[Robbiesan]

Thanks for the build tips.  Will try this out.

[Trickshaw]

I should post a new video for this as my gameplay in the video honestly suck. It can be played much better.

Gameplay isn't the problem. Your video is fine. In fact, your video is a perfect example of why this build is a gimmick and a "meh" gimmick at best. Because it's:

A.) HIGHLY situational and...
B.) Barely viable on Threatening while being a complete joke on Perilous.

If Bioware made the detonations do real damage AND increased the radius of the mines I would *consider* bringing an alchemist for AoE trash clearing. As it stands Elementalists, Necros and Archers can do it not only better but safer, more reliably and more often.

I *love* my Alchemist but an AoE machine she is not. Sure, it's flashy and fun for a few runs but when you hit Perilous and realize you're a waste of a slot (unless you're grouped with bads) the luster wears off. I mean if the goal is to God mode on Routine then by all means, have at it.

That is until an Archer with a Griffin or a Punched comes on by to spoil all the fun.

[moyes_1314]

I *love* my Alchemist but an AoE machine she is not.

Do you mind to share your build? Looking for a decent one for perilous, havent come across one so far..

[Torkelight]

Gameplay isn't the problem. Your video is fine. In fact, your video is a perfect example of why this build is a gimmick and a "meh" gimmick at best. Because it's:

A.) HIGHLY situational and...
B.) Barely viable on Threatening while being a complete joke on Perilous.

If Bioware made the detonations do real damage AND increased the radius of the mines I would *consider* bringing an alchemist for AoE trash clearing. As it stands Elementalists, Necros and Archers can do it not only better but safer, more reliably and more often.

I *love* my Alchemist but an AoE machine she is not. Sure, it's flashy and fun for a few runs but when you hit Perilous and realize you're a waste of a slot (unless you're grouped with bads) the luster wears off. I mean if the goal is to God mode on Routine then by all means, have at it.

That is until an Archer with a Griffin or a Punched comes on by to spoil all the fun.

I do agree that on perilous it can quickly become a waste of slot as the damage output and CC is not high enough. But then again, on perilous there are other characters that are even more useless.

I disagree that it is not viable on threatening. With the right weapons, I can outscore anyone, even archers with griffon bow, no problem. If you mean situational as in it requires larger groups of monsters to show its best, then you can say the same thing about a lot of builds and characters actually. I mean, what more is this game about than fighting some straggling groups while you run for the last group on a stage where you just unload your CC and damage, and then you use the choke on stage 5?

The video is recorded from a threatening run. I can also say that I won the scoreboard on that game but didnt add it to the video. To say that this build is only for playing god mode on routine is just silly.

I think you can churn out just as much CC-damage as an elementalist, but its not as effective as the constant knockdowns. It's damage comes in addition to freezing, sundering, fire over time etc etc.

 

Now this game is of course not about who scores the highest - but still, but it just proves that this build is perfectly viable on threatening. Actually it makes it childs play really, especially when you make the choke on stage 5.

 

Anyway, I posted this because I find it fun to play. Some people might not like it, but I do love my mines and watch the rainbow of explosions. 

[Trickshaw]

I disagree that it is not viable on threatening. With the right weapons, I can outscore anyone, even archers with griffon bow, no problem.

I didn't say that it *wasn't* viable. I said that it was *barely* viable. Subtle but definitive difference.

Anyone can scoreboard clear with a bad pug. The most embarrassing thing about your video isn't your performance but your comrades'. Here's the long and short of it: if an Alchemist (regardless of build) is top tiering matches then his teammates are either under geared or incompetent.

Here's a short list of classes and abilities that can do EXACTLY what you did but faster and deadlier as well as not have to build their ENTIRE character around one specific circumstance (i.e. more utility):

Archer: Backflip all by its lonesome or longshot w/upgrade (even more hilarity w/punched or detonation bow)
Necro: Walking bomb. Done sir done.
Hunter: See archer
Elementalists: 1/2 their ****ing tree, take your pick.
Arcane Warrior: Pull + auto attack, oh I mean "spirit blade".
Templar: Purge combo

And that's just off the top of my head.

Alchemist is fun but for mines to be anything other than a gimmick a buff is in order. The explosions are too small and hit like wet noodles. Archer/Hunters can AUTO ATTACK for more damage than an entire Throw All The Mines can deal. I would sooner flask and multi drop toxic clouds for WAAAAAAY more damage and corpse explosions than mine splurge.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here. I'm trying to bring a healthy dose of reality to the situation; both for the classes sake and new players like this guy:

Do you mind to share your build? Looking for a decent one for perilous, havent come across one so far..

You can build it like an Assassin but it'll never be as good or you can go full on poison which is what I'm doing atm with so-so results. Flasking with toxic cloud is essentially the same thing as mine only a lot more damage. The downside being you have to be reactive instead of pro active since it's a far shorter duration.

[Torkelight]

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here. I'm trying to bring a healthy dose of reality to the situation; both for the classes sake and new players like this guy:

There's not really a parade to be rained on man, dont worry. With a mediocre pug I do threatening runs with this build easily. Thats not the same as barely viable. And honestly scoreboards doesnt matter much to me, all I'm saying is that this build has, as first stated some really nice utility, escpecially on larger groups of monsters. On the small ones simple auto attack or shadow strike suffice. And it's fun to play.

"A healthy dose of reality?". Really? You actually recommend not using this build? I recommend not listening to you. Just because a build isnt THE best compared to all the other classes, what does it matter? Sure it's not the best cookie cutter, win guaranteed-build you can play but who gives a ****. It's fun, it's actually effective. I'd rather play this sneaky class than fall asleep while autopiloting the one trick pony that is the AW f.ex.

 

On perilous though... whole different ball game.

 

I dont know what else there is to say really.