84 réponses à ce sujet

[vertigomez]

I thought it was pretty hard—even artificially so. Basically Harrowmont is a decent guy on a personal level and a monster as a ruler, whereas Bhelen is a complete, unrepenting %#$@ but a decent ruler. Makes for an interesting balance but is slightly belief-stretching.

If you're playing a DC, not only is Bhelen your nephew's babydaddy, but Harrowmont treats you like the scum of the earth. Nevermind that you're a Warden, or are trying to save the world... dirty casteless filth ugh. Maybe he's "decent" if you're a DN or a human or an elf...

What's that quote? "If you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals..."

[Chronoreaper]

DA5 might involve a double blight as the remaining two archdemons are found at the same time its the only true way to end the series in a big hitter that could have a massively bad ending(all darkspawn just keep attacking) or the nations rejoice(dwarves happily retaking the homelands) or the grey wardens become a evil power(for fear of not being needed again).

 

If Cory wasn't in DA:I good chance he would've started it same with the Architect if he wasn't killable in DA:A

[garrusfan1]

bhelen is ruthless but he actually changes thing for the better like your saying OP.

[Br3admax]

She should be.

Stop being a hater, tbh.

[Cat Fancy]

I thought it was pretty hard—even artificially so. Basically Harrowmont is a decent guy on a personal level and a monster as a ruler, whereas Bhelen is a complete, unrepenting %#$@ but a decent ruler. Makes for an interesting balance but is slightly belief-stretching.

It's an easy choice for me. If I'm playing a DC, I obviously go for Bhelen. If not, I... still go for Bhelen, but there's no good in-game reason for it. But I set up Harrowmont as the king in my Inquisition worldstates because my warden wasn't a Brosca. I actually can't think of a main quest in any of these games which is changed so much by your background. Not even playing as an elf in Inquisition, tbh.

 

so basically he doesn't have the plot power/author favortisim that lelianna would have to just snap her fingers to get rid of all the tension between mages, templars, and mundans. Not to mention the tensions between humans and elves as well. Because it seems like lelliana just has to go "peace!" and everyone just magically disolves all there tensions that they had for centuries if not more.

Where does it say in the epilogue that this tension is gone? It's still there. It's there in all epilogues. It just hasn't immediately resulted in another civil war. And I mean, especially with the race stuff, why do you think just allowing members of other races to become priests means that the tension is gone or that this isn't controversial?

[Chashan]

I'm not one to rock the boat too much. For the most part I like the world as it is. Plenty of conflicting interests, wars, and alliances. Policies that I agree and disagree with. Views that I find fascinating and sometimes weird.

 

But Orzammar... C'MON. That nutcase Branka is a Paragon and the genius Dagna is casteless? WTF is wrong with you guys? 

 

Madness and genius are two sides of the same coin, as they say...

 

 

Bhelen doesn't have riots, he is actively working to combat the shortage unlike Harrowmont who is too busy lining his pockets.

Bhelen is also working with the merchants guild to liaison with Kal Sharok and if you let Branka live, he shuts her down because she does awful experiments on the Casteless.

 

Any recording of this? Because this essentially turns him into a worse Garry Stu than he already is treated as by many.

 

That aside, as those three are talking about rumours, I would not put it past the man to actively spread such a notion while still being pretty much in the same kind of mess. Orzammar is still an underground kingdom isolated from the surface due to that fact alone, and I could see that an increased reliance on supplies from above could also lead to severe shortages in a time when there's wide-spread crisis all-around on that selfsame surface - mage-templar civil war, the rifts, Venatori incursions. As a result of those it would hardly be surprising if surface trade were crippled, if not stopped altogether.

 

At any rate, Bhelen Aeducan clearly is not shown as a nice guy in DA:O - 'mobster boss' would be something that comes to mind far more readily for someone who doesn't shy away from intimidation, blackmail and murder. I could see that type of personality and bearing leading to problems down the line, irregardless of 'change' and 'reforms'.

[herkles]

Behlen reminds me of Augustus. Behlen is not nice, he is not 'moral', he is devious, manipulative, scheming, rutheless. But he also knows how to rule for the better of his kingdom as a whole.

[thesuperdarkone2]

More and more it looks like Bhelen is the right choice. I just love how Bioware is rubbing in how horrible Harrowmont is. Bet those Harrowmont lovers are salty

[herkles]

I wonder how many dwarven noble characters chose Behlen over Harrowmount?

[TheJediSaint]

But tradition dictates that **** must be divided by caste.

[Bigdoser]

I wonder how many dwarven noble characters chose Behlen over Harrowmount?

I did I pretty much told him our family must retain the throne no matter the cost and Behlen is surprised with how pragmatic I am and deep down I was kinda impressed how he screwed me over I know it sounds weird. 

 

Plus if you have Zevran with you he pretty much states that Harrowmount is going to be a weak king. 

[Clockwork_Wings]

You remember that crier talking about Bhelan's impending marraige to a castless woman?  I don't think that's a lie.  From what we see, he treats Rica very well.  It wouldn't surprise me if she is literally the only thing he cares about besides the throne.

[Chronoreaper]

Yea he seems to hold her dearly even those with madness in there eyes have something dear to them

[vertigomez]

You remember that crier talking about Bhelan's impending marraige to a castless woman?  I don't think that's a lie.  From what we see, he treats Rica very well.  It wouldn't surprise me if she is literally the only thing he cares about besides the throne.

I always wondered about that. DC can ask Rica if she's going to be queen, and she'll say no, she's just a concubine. She says Bhelen's wife will be queen. And if you ask Bhelen if your nephew will be king, he'll say that baby Endrin has just as much a right to the throne as any child born of his wife.

Then the crier says the "marry a casteless" thing, which could just be ~scandelous rumor mongering~ and Anora will address Rica as Bhelen's wife in the epilogue (could be a cultural misunderstanding or design oversight?), and if you side with Harrowmont eventually Rica will say something like she's glad she doesn't have a husband to boss her around.

At any rate, I kind of like the idea that he's genuine in this one thing, and would like to marry her. But I honestly don't know if he did or not.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I always wondered about that. DC can ask Rica if she's going to be queen, and she'll say no, she's just a concubine. She says Bhelen's wife will be queen. And if you ask Bhelen if your nephew will be king, he'll say that baby Endrin has just as much a right to the throne as any child born of his wife.

Then the crier says the "marry a casteless" thing, which could just be ~scandelous rumor mongering~ and Anora will address Rica as Bhelen's wife in the epilogue (could be a cultural misunderstanding or design oversight?), and if you side with Harrowmont eventually Rica will say something like she's glad she doesn't have a husband to boss her around.

At any rate, I kind of like the idea that he's genuine in this one thing, and would like to marry her. But I honestly don't know if he did or not.

It's probably something like a cultural misunderstanding and poor translation.  Rica may consider Bhelan her husband for lack of a better word in Fereldan. 

 

As for little Endrin, that's why the nobles take many concubines.  They have a low birth rate, so a noble, considered better by dwarven custom, having multiple women makes for multiple superior children, or so dwarven social custom dictates. 

 

I did a script on the banter thread once about the dwarf warden and Anora getting into it about this.  I headcanon that my dwarf girls consider themselves Alistair's noble-hunter, and so frequently argue with Anora over whether any of Alistair/Warden's children deserve the same upbringing as any child of Alistair/Anora.  It ends with Alistair being revealed to be hiding under a table, and asking the inquisitor not to tell them where he's at. 

 

By the way, did anyone find the letter in the Hinterlands addressed to Endrin?  I wondered if that was Bhelan and Rica's child, since he's born before the warden makes the decision, and therefore likely lives in all playthroughs.  But he's about Kieran's age, so....

[Kevs]

But Orzammar... C'MON. That nutcase Branka is a Paragon and the genius Dagna is casteless? WTF is wrong with you guys? 

Bianca also claims that she's more of a genius than Branka ever was. I can totally see Bianca and Dagna working together to create a super weapon!

[Wolfen09]

Bianca also claims that she's more of a genius than Branka ever was. I can totally see Bianca and Dagna working together to create a super weapon!

 

throw dworkin in there and next thing u know the dwarves will have nuked the darkspawn.

[Chronoreaper]

and maybe half a thedas with them

[MoonDrummer]

My Orzammar did get it's **** together, they retaken a number of Thaigs and have the anvil.

[vertigomez]

Bhelen and Rica's son is named Endrin.

And the male DN can name his son by Mardy... Endrin.



Orzammar does need to get its **** together.

[TEWR]

Endrin? Meet Endrin. Endrin, Endrin. And over there's your grandfather Endrin.

[Nightdragon8]

Solas has some dialogue with Varric that, as far as I know, happens regardless of who's king where Solas asks "Why do the dwarves tighten their hold on the lyrium trade and use it to leverage aid from the surface; either claim soveriegn land or demand their help in fighting back against the darkspawn", where Varric answers, essentially, "You're not saying anything I haven't said myself. Orzammar's always been that way and is always going to be that way."

 

Personally that annoyed me for two reasons. First, it undercuts Bhelen's role as a reformer, but I'll let that slide because it's only been ten years and he's fighting an uphill battle. Secondly, since when has Varric given two thoughts about Orzammar's politics? When has he ever cared enough to put that much thought into the problem? What makes Varric, this guy who's established to love surface life and have no love for dwarven culture, this enlightened philosopher on issues dwarven?

he is part of the merchant guild, which operates inside and outside of Orzammar, also its not like you haven't thought about NK or CHina or Russia's poltics ever right? What makes you think Varric hasn't done the same thing with Orzammar, he probably has thoughts on Fereldan and Orils, just no one asks him.

[Clockwork_Wings]

There's also a letter in the Hinterlands addrssed to...Endrin. Keep wondering if it's Rica's boy, but he'd be about Kieran's age. Wonder if the king had a secret surface life. Think of the scandal!

[veeia]

Madness and genius are two sides of the same coin, as they say...

 

 

 

Any recording of this? Because this essentially turns him into a worse Garry Stu than he already is treated as by many.

 

That aside, as those three are talking about rumours, I would not put it past the man to actively spread such a notion while still being pretty much in the same kind of mess. Orzammar is still an underground kingdom isolated from the surface due to that fact alone, and I could see that an increased reliance on supplies from above could also lead to severe shortages in a time when there's wide-spread crisis all-around on that selfsame surface - mage-templar civil war, the rifts, Venatori incursions. As a result of those it would hardly be surprising if surface trade were crippled, if not stopped altogether.

 

At any rate, Bhelen Aeducan clearly is not shown as a nice guy in DA:O - 'mobster boss' would be something that comes to mind far more readily for someone who doesn't shy away from intimidation, blackmail and murder. I could see that type of personality and bearing leading to problems down the line, irregardless of 'change' and 'reforms'.

 

 

Sure, here's my post from the Dwarf thread: 

 

 

Okay, here's the text of Branka + Bhelen:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

iirc, Harrowmont is not doing as good of a job with the trade stuff, times are rough in Orzammar, and the Merchants guild is going behind his back. On that save, I have to accumulate 15 power again before I can hear the comments because I saved over my pre Winter Palace save. SAVE LIMIT GRRR!!!! .   BUT I WILL DO IT. And maybe edit this stuff into the wiki or something. 

 

Trying Brosca + Bhelen + No Branka save now! 

 

 

I don't think that anyone thinks Bhelen is a "nice guy" or a "powerhouse reformer" or anything, it's just clear that HIS brand of self-interested works better for the dwarves, instead of Harrowmont's brand of self-righteousness. 

[Clockwork_Wings]

Hoping DA4 will takw us back to Orzamaar so we can see some of this. The most interesting things happening while the inquisition hangs out on the surface.