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[Lucky Thirteen]

Why is this thread still open. You people have sucked all the fun out of it.

[King Dragonlord]

Did I miss something?  What does the size of people have to do with anything?

 

I assume they're arguing because women are so often shown to be equal or superior warriors to men in this game. 

 

 

Skallagrim, one of my favorite weapon experts argues that technique is more important than strength. You can get most of the chopping power out of a blade through proper handling. An experienced warrior like Cassandra has a clear advantage over a young raw male recruit even if he's stronger. 

[Rannik]

Skallagrim, one of my favorite weapon experts...

 

scholagladiatoria > Skallagrim

 

[King Dragonlord]

scholagladiatoria > Skallagrim

 

 

I like him too and he agrees with Skallagrim.

 

Now to be clear, they do seem to both argue that if all other things are equal, size and strength can be an advantage (more able to maneuver the weapon or really just to use a larger weapon with your longer stronger arms that has more reach.) But technique and skill are by far the most important and most soldiers on a battlefield aren't experienced or especially well trained in ye olden times. 

[Rannik]

I like him too and he agrees with Skallagrim.

 

This is well known stuff by anyone mildly interested in HEMA though, there's really no debate in that regard, it's all about technique and stamina.

 

Real weapons and armor (not what we see in videogames...) are much lighter than what most people think.

[joejoe099]

This is well known stuff by anyone mildly interested in HEMA though, there's really no debate in that regard, it's all about technique and stamina.

 

Real weapons and armor (not what we see in videogames...) are much lighter than what most people think.

 

I won't dismiss skill is one of if not the most important part of weapon handling, since you need to actually hit the guy you're trying to kill for it to work, but strength just makes it more effective.

 

It really comes to 'is it easier to teach a skill, or a person to change physically.'

[mikeymoonshine]

So this dimorphism argument is about the Qun right? Someone suggested the Qun saw being a warrior as a male only thing because of dimorphism or something? 

 

I'll just assume that is what it's about. We don't actually know what sexual dimorphism is like in Qunari seeing as we have only seen very few females at all. Even if this rule was based on dimorphism (which I am not saying it was) that doesn't mean dimorphism is the reason they stick to it. They view their jobs as who they are after all, that is why they have these strict roles. They probably wouldn't see something like that as the reason for that rule even if it originally was because to them there is no reason, it's simply how things are. 

 

There is more to being male than simply being physically strong even in a stereotypical gender role sense of the word. 

[King Dragonlord]

I won't dismiss skill is one of if not the most important part of weapon handling, since you need to actually hit the guy you're trying to kill for it to work, but strength just makes it more effective.

 

It really comes to 'is it easier to teach a skill, or a person to change physically.'

 

And this series does generally avoid making women your power choppers. Aveline and Cassandra are both sword and board by default, and other women use speed and finesse. All the two handers are men. 

 

The one thing they overestimate is dual wielding (and that can be blamed on DnD and every other video game that uses melee weapons). 

[King Dragonlord]

So this dimorphism argument is about the Qun right? Someone suggested the Qun saw being a warrior as a male only thing because of dimorphism or something? 

 

I'll just assume that is what it's about. We don't actually know what sexual dimorphism is like in Qunari seeing as we have only seen very few females at all. Even if this rule was based on dimorphism (which I am not saying it was) that doesn't mean dimorphism is the reason they stick to it. They view their jobs as who they are after all, that is why they have these strict roles. They probably wouldn't see something like that as the reason for that rule even if it originally was because to them there is no reason, it's simply how things are. 

 

There is more to being male than simply being physically strong even in a stereotypical gender role sense of the word. 

 

The most compelling reason historically is that you need fewer men to repopulate. 

[mikeymoonshine]

The most compelling reason historically is that you need fewer men to repopulate. 

 

I agree, I was saying it's not a good argument against the idea of a trans man existing under the Qun. I agree that this is probably the main reason that men were historically more likely to be warriors in the real world. It's just common sense but the Qun is different. There are some female combat roles like Beh-Hassrath. Females also do all the maintenance, I assume this includes hard labour and many jobs that could be dangerous. Then again they probably use their zombie slaves to do most of the worst jobs so maybe it's not so different after all. We don't really know what the reasons for creating the system in that way are and those reasons aren't necessarily the same as the methods they used to decide roles for people. 

[Rannik]

We managed to go from brothels to muh soggy knees, then politics, then Krem, then Qun, then Anita Sarkeesian, then Dorian's blood magic thing, then the raep culture, then statistics, then sexual dimorphism, then HEMA and now back to the Qun.

 

Gotta love the BSN  

[Spirited Treasure]

The Iron Bull is the brothel. Lol Who said that? "The Iron Bull slightly approves. " lol

[Giantdeathrobot]

We managed to go from brothels to muh soggy knees, then politics, then Krem, then Qun, then Anita Sarkeesian, then Dorian's blood magic thing, then the raep culture, then statistics, then sexual dimorphism, then HEMA and now back to the Qun.

 

Gotta love the BSN  

 

Don't forget the swordfighting lessons. 

 

No, not that kind of swordfighting. unfortunately Thankfully.

[hellbiter88]

We need to bring back this sexiness:

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Nathair Nimheil]

While posting a chart that has no backing, or as you said is not a real chart, how can we consider it seriously when nothing its backing it?

Because it's an example of overlapping bell curves (that says it's not scientific data right on it.)

 

We are not discussing the height variation by gender in the United States in 2014, which we could display on a graph and quibble about exact percentages and specific details without changing a thing. We are, instead, talking about general sexual dimorphism in people, fantasy people similar to human beings in this case and so about general cases.

 

People vary individually as well as by gender. The ranges of individual variation within gender groups broadly overlap. People also vary in stature by ethnic origin. Body weight to height and strength to height ratios also vary by ethnic origin. Even the degree of sexual dimorphism in people also varies by ethnic origin. Gender is just one factor among a great many in predicting any given individual's characteristics and a very general one at that. There is no valid excuse for making it the consideration which therefore precludes all individual members of that gender from consideration. 

 

This really isn't that difficult. Any rule that says that you (average gamer boy) should automatically be considered potentially "tough enough" for military service but decides without even bothering to check that women like Jill Mills, Ronda Rousey, Kristin Rhodes cannot possibly be is just stupid. If you don't believe me then ask Admiral Michelle Howard or General Ann Dunwoody about the validity of gender locking the military.

 

And to make it even easier we know this is true because we've tested it. Pretty much whatever the job is, from military para-commandos to fire fighters to oilfield roughnecks to lumberjacks women have already done it successfully. "Tried it" trumps "should be" every time. We tried it. It's over. Can we stop acting as if there was anything left to argue about now?

[ORTesc]

Probably because portraying women working in the sex industry would be demeaning or something along those lines and would offend feminists.

[Nathair Nimheil]

The most compelling reason historically is that you need fewer men to repopulate. 

Women seldom (if ever) run to more than 15% of the makeup of a military. So even in dire circumstance (think Soviets in WWII) with a quarter of the male population off to war that would still result in only 4% of the women going. I think the remaining 96% could handle any re-population pretty well.

[Giant ambush beetle]

This is well known stuff by anyone mildly interested in HEMA though, there's really no debate in that regard, it's all about technique and stamina.

 

Real weapons and armor (not what we see in videogames...) are much lighter than what most people think.

 

I generally agree that strength isn't that important when fighting a medieval battle. HOWEVER, once there are grappling techniques involved or the fight gets really close, personal and dirty  too close to use your main weapon) the weaker opponent will get overpowered and mauled by the physically stronger fighter.

Reminds me of Red Viper vs The Mountain.

If a really strong and heavier opponent gets to grab you you're going to have a bad time even if you are a far better swordsman. 

[joejoe099]

Because it's an example of overlapping bell curves (that says it's not scientific data right on it.)

 

We are not discussing the height variation by gender in the United States in 2014, which we could display on a graph and quibble about exact percentages and specific details without changing a thing. We are, instead, talking about general sexual dimorphism in people, fantasy people similar to human beings in this case and so about general cases.

 

People vary individually as well as by gender. The ranges of individual variation within gender groups broadly overlap. People also vary in stature by ethnic origin. Body weight to height and strength to height ratios also vary by ethnic origin. Even the degree of sexual dimorphism in people also varies by ethnic origin. Gender is just one factor among a great many in predicting any given individual's characteristics and a very general one at that. There is no valid excuse for making it the consideration which therefore precludes all individual members of that gender from consideration. 

 

This really isn't that difficult. Any rule that says that you (average gamer boy) should automatically be considered potentially "tough enough" for military service but decides without even bothering to check that women like Jill Mills, Ronda Rousey, Kristin Rhodes cannot possibly be is just stupid. If you don't believe me then ask Admiral Michelle Howard or General Ann Dunwoody about the validity of gender locking the military.

 

And to make it even easier we know this is true because we've tested it. Pretty much whatever the job is, from military para-commandos to fire fighters to oilfield roughnecks to lumberjacks women have already done it successfully. "Tried it" trumps "should be" every time. We tried it. It's over. Can we stop acting as if there was anything left to argue about now?

 

This bell curves argument is still not a concept you've proven here that actually exists. The only evidence you've actually shown here of its existence is you insisting it does. Show me a wide study that proves this correlation, one that includes actual muscle mass or physical strength instead of only weight since weight doesn't automatically make you strong, and you have a legitimate argument. Saying it exists over and over does not make it suddenly exist.

 

I also have to point out you're wrong with suddenly accusing me of being 'average gamer boy'. You're going against your own point instantly assuming that since I disagree with you, i'd have to be this. You have no idea who I am, yet are so eager to label me as such. 

 

' "Tried it" trumps "should be" everytime ' line. Yes, women have gone into these fields, but more men have gone into these fields of their own free will than women. More men actually look forward into going into these fields than women. No where am I saying a woman isn't capable, i'm saying that neither they nor any one else expects them to. So now it comes to me repeating myself, Averages are expectations, not a demand.

[TheLastArchivist]

So...has Bioware given any official response as to why there are no brothels? 

[Lucky Thirteen]

So...has Bioware given any official response as to why there are no brothels? 

 

I'm willing to wager they just forgot or more likely ran out of time and decided it wasn't that necessary. Little did they know that simple creative decision would curse them as the feminist agenda pushers of the gaming industry in the eyes of anti-feminist agenda pushers. 

[hellbiter88]

I'm willing to wager they just forgot or more likely ran out of time and decided it wasn't that necessary. Little did they know that simple creative decision would curse them as the feminist agenda pushers of the gaming industry in the eyes of anti-feminist agenda pushers. 

 

They might have done it for the feminists, actually. I mean I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. I can see how that would be objectifying for some types. Although they could have thrown dudes in too. Over there. that way  --------->

[Nathair Nimheil]

This bell curves argument is still not a concept you've proven here that actually exists.

It is ridiculous to question this. Do you dispute that men exist who are shorter than 5' 4" (the average for US women)? Do you dispute that women exist who are taller than 5' 9" (the average for US men)? Then what are you disputing?! That's the whole thing: individuals vary more broadly than the distances between gender averages. Averages are not conclusions.
 

I also have to point out you're wrong with suddenly accusing me of being 'average gamer boy'.

I wasn't. That was the impersonal you and an explanation: you (the average gamer guy).
 

No where am I saying a woman isn't capable

Then what exactly are you arguing with me about?

[Nathair Nimheil]

So...has Bioware given any official response as to why there are no brothels? 

Probably for the same reasons there are no candle dippers or bear gardens or barber shops or fullers or coopers or...

[Maverick827]

I'm willing to wager they just forgot or more likely ran out of time and decided it wasn't that necessary. Little did they know that simple creative decision would curse them as the feminist agenda pushers of the gaming industry in the eyes of anti-feminist agenda pushers. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the reason why there aren't any brothels in the game, but the "us vs. them" mentality you perpetuate by labeling people as "anti-feminist" isn't helping anyone.

 

As an example, I consider myself to be an egalitarian, but I do tend to roll my eyes whenever I come across a Five Token Band on a television show.  Does that make me anti-egalitarian?