404 réponses à ce sujet

[Sully13]

Yeah because everything is patriarchy.

[joejoe099]

Ha. So you were really made of nothing but hot air, good to know. 

 

how does that make me be filled with hot air? I provided you with sources of everything I said that confirm what my point was, and you just dismiss it.

 

I wish there were more brothels for women. Both in real life as well as videogames.

Sometimes all I want is to have a nice, long shag with a handsome, muscular (and preferably hygienic) greek blond, blue-eyed god.

 

No strings attached. Just dancing together. 

 

If we're going with the rhetoric against having a brothel in this thread, that's misandrist for wanting a man only to dance with.

 

Community:  The lack of brothels ruins my immersion in a dark ages, wild west, male, patriarchy, chauvinistic sorta way. 

 

Bioware:  We're not trying to upset people,  we're trying to make people critically think and brothels does not fit in that criteria at this time.

 

Community:  But, but, if it doesn't have super dark subject matter its just not REAL.

 

Bioware:  We give you deaths of prominent characters,  sexual intrigue in romances,  politics, a tear in the sky,  and the possible ending of the world as we know it and the one thing that pulls you out...   is a lack of a brothel?  

 

Community:  Yeah, but what about blood magic, you had that and now you're removing it. 

 

Bioware:  Do you think with the likes of Cullen, Cassandra and Lilianna that the inquisition would last 5 seconds if they found out you were using blood magic?  The only person who would probably support you (depending on how you used it) would be Solas.

 

No one has said it ruined their immersion, only commenting that they pulled this out. The only defense argument that's pro no brothel in this thread so far has been because 'it offends women' which is a weak argument in the first place.

[KaiserShep]

There is nothing inherently wrong with a brothel irl or in a video game. But the way it was implemented falls into the 'women as objects trope' like Chorra's Din in Mass Effect or the strip clubs in GTA.

I'd like to see it come back for nostalgia's sake but it's probably best it's not here this time around.

 

The depiction of women specifically isn't much of an issue here, because both the Pearl and the Blooming Rose had male workers as well as female.
 

I suppose it's also worth mentioning that both establishments seem to be run by women.

[Maverick827]

Jeez. I said I liked the brothel but it was a bit unnessicary and sexist. I didn't say anything about pitch forks or wanting to rake people over coals or anything.

It's not even a big deal. But man. The hate is strong with some of you guys. Feminism isn't a zero sum game, guys. Equality isn't gunna hurt your paycheck. And Feminist crit isn't gunna stop somebody from making 'God of War 7: this time Kratos has Boobs.'

Relax, man.

 

If you're referring to me, then I should clarify that I was not referring to you.  I was referring to the tweet linked earlier in the thread, which is something I cannot understand how any feminist could possibly get behind.

 

I disagree with your claim of sexism in Dragon Age's historical use of brothels, but I am not angry that you have that opinion.  As with any online debate, I obviously hope arguments against you could somehow change your opinion (because that's happened before on the internet), though I agree said arguments were presented with a bit of hostility that might make them unwelcoming.  To summarize the arguments I've seen here (and maybe add a few things), hopefully with no offense taken:

 

1.  There are both male and female prostitutes working in both brothels and neither gender was over, under, or misrepresented

 

2.  Everyone should have complete ownership of their own bodies, and that includes selling themselves should they wish to, and this is something that should not be considered demeaning

 

3.  Thedas as a whole seems to be a fairly gender progressive society, so it seems very unlikely that the prostitutes would have been working there unwillingly

 

4.  Even if the depiction of brothels was as horrible as possible, the inclusion of horrible things in works of art in and of themselves is not racist, sexist, or anything-ist.  There is a lot of racism in Thedas, particularly against elves, but that doesn't mean that the Dragon Age writers are racist.  Just because slavery is legal in Tevinter, and some "good" characters even go as far as to defend it's existence, does not mean that the Dragon Age writers are pro-slavery, either.

 

As for myself, personally, I never really enjoyed the brothels.  I don't miss them and I wouldn't be excited if they came back.  But I wouldn't be opposed to it, either.

[OHB MajorV]

This thread is like 4 good posts away from getting shut down, much like the sex trade in thedas.

[DetcelferVisionary]

No one has said it ruined their immersion, only commenting that they pulled this out. The only defense argument that's pro no brothel in this thread so far has been because 'it offends women' which is a weak argument in the first place.

 

So you're saying if a game company pulls something out because it doesn't fit whatever criteria for their game that they have somehow mislead gamers?  Was brothels that important?  Did it ruin your experience?  Is it truly worth complaining about?  Of the other things they pulled out...  this is the straw that broke the camels back?  

 

What is your sound argument for it having to be there in the first place other than it was there before?  

[Sully13]

Yah know this started out as a joke thread. 

[KaiserShep]

Yah know this started out as a joke thread. 

Didn't you get the memo? All threads are joke threads. 

[Massadonious1]

Unless they plan on "showing" what they are used for, (something they haven't done in previous games, aside from a very hilarious Origins mod) I really don't see the point. I can count on one hand the number of times the Pearl and Blooming Rose were used as plot points.

[DetcelferVisionary]

Didn't you get the memo? All threads are joke threads. 

 

Only the ones I deem worthy.  Like this thread.  ...  so...  we agree then.

[OHB MajorV]

The solid argument for having it would be the sex trade has ALWAYS had a place in war, underground in modern day but it's always been there. Just saying.

[Maverick827]

So you're saying if a game company pulls something out because it doesn't fit whatever criteria for their game that they have somehow mislead gamers?  Was brothels that important?  Did it ruin your experience?  Is it truly worth complaining about?  Of the other things they pulled out...  this is the straw that broke the camels back?  

 

What is your sound argument for it having to be there in the first place other than it was there before?  

 

There is a huge argument in gaming right now about self-censorship for fear of offending people.  A lot of fans believe that BioWare is censoring themselves in a lot of ways (desire demons, brothels, the Qun, etc.) and a lot of fans believe this is just coincidental.  I'm sure a lot of fans also believe they are censoring themselves, but agree with it.

 

With this type of issue, there isn't a "straw that broke the camels back," but instead, a notion of "I can see things starting to pile on top of that camel, and I'm afraid soon its back will break.  Maybe I should speak up now before that happens."

[KaiserShep]

I don't object to there being one at all, but I'd probably object to one existing in Skyhold, because it just wouldn't make a lick of sense for one to be permitted to be built. Cass would raid the place like a cop during Prohibition.

[Sully13]

Didn't you get the memo? All threads are joke threads. 

Only when i show up.

[OHB MajorV]

I don't object to there being one at all, but I'd probably object to one existing in Skyhold, because it just wouldn't make a lick of sense for one to be permitted to be built. Cass would raid the place like a cop during Prohibition.

This was my thought also, skyhold no, somewhere else in thedas? Can't see why there wouldn't be.

[Sully13]

as i said Val Royux would be the place for it.

[OHB MajorV]

as i said Val Royux would be the place for it.

Seems most logical.

Adding it as a DLC would seem rather tacky though IMO. Unless they make VR much much larger with an expansion.

[joejoe099]

So you're saying if a game company pulls something out because it doesn't fit whatever criteria for their game that they have somehow mislead gamers?  Was brothels that important?  Did it ruin your experience?  Is it truly worth complaining about?  Of the other things they pulled out...  this is the straw that broke the camels back?  

 

What is your sound argument for it having to be there in the first place other than it was there before?  

 

It's a location. It could be a story element. It could have lore. "The Tainted Petal. Once the hidden headquarters of an elvish rebellion, now resorted back to its original seedy elements of the sex trade, home to information gathers or spies from across the region." Something like that. It could've been a great location to find and meet Sera, seeing as the Red Jennies are a criminal group.

[KaiserShep]

I wouldn't be convinced of an Orlesian "brothel" unless they were extremely expensive. 

 

"You like what you see, yes? For the unbridled chevalier, 80 sovereigns, the bound empress, 200 sovereigns, and The Great Game, 600 sovereigns."

[DetcelferVisionary]

There is a huge argument in gaming right now about self-censorship for fear of offending people.  A lot of fans believe that BioWare is censoring themselves in a lot of ways (desire demons, brothels, the Qun, etc.) and a lot of fans believe this is just coincidental.  I'm sure a lot of fans also believe they are censoring themselves, but agree with it.

 

With this type of issue, there isn't a "straw that broke the camels back," but instead, a notion of "I can see things starting to pile on top of that camel, and I'm afraid soon its back will break.  Maybe I should speak up now before that happens."

 

I get what you're saying and am inclined to agree that there is a slippery slope when it comes to censorship.  At the same time,  just because we have things like free speech doesn't mean that it's a challenge to push it's limits every waking moment of our lives.  Just because we CAN say something doesn't legitamize that we should.  What's it's value and purpose is at the heart of this topic. 

 

If Bioware placed a brothel in the game to satisfy the horny then it lost any sort of platform it had to send a message,  to make us think.  If it instead made us feel uncomfortable at how horrible such a life could be by taking us on a sad tale of a dalish elf, then it enriches the experience.  

 

My take is they either felt they explored these stories already in DA and ME or it simply didn't fit the stories they wanted to tell this time around.  Either way,  it is not integral to DA just as we found out that neither was the Grey Wardens in DA2.  That story got told.  Maybe theres more...  but that is up for them to decide.

[Sully13]

I wouldn't be convinced of an Orlesian "brothel" unless they were extremely expensive. 

 

"You like what you see, yes? For the unbridled chevalier, 80 sovereigns, the bound empress, 200 sovereigns, and The Great Game, 600 sovereigns."

and Steve the stable boy.. he will do it for a pice of Toaste and a wedge of Cheese.

[myahele]

Can you imagine if it was a paid dlc, lol

[KaiserShep]

Can you imagine if it was a paid dlc, lol

We become the johns, for real.

[Teddie Sage]

Eww... Paying for a digital brothel with real cash as an add-on to a franchise that used to have them already. Eww...

[CreepingShadow]

Can you imagine if it was a paid dlc, lol

Yeah...... I'm more upset about the apparent reasoning for taking it out than the actual omission. That said I would love to see how many pervs would actually pay 5$ for a virtual peepshow, that could be funny... or sad, or funny and sad.