404 réponses à ce sujet

[Sully13]

[Cyaxares]

Intresting discussion here, though a bit hostile. Here's what I think on the issue

 

First, about Krem, he is transgender man, not a woman, and his gender has nothing to do with his sexual orientation or  what his does in life, if he is a warrior or not. So I see no contradiction with what Sten  and Iron Bull said. It means that Qunari accept transgener people, by the gender they identify themselves and wish to be identified by others, not by sex they where assigned at birth. But their roles in society are still dictated by gender, and only men are warriors, whether they where born male or female,  but women  still can't be warriors in Qun society.

 

As for brothels in the game I don't care that much either way, I didn't even thought about it until this post, but I don't think brothels, or  inclussion of prostitutes or strippers in a game, are by themselves,  are problematic from feminist point  view.  I think it depends on a  game in general and  how gender roles are portrayed.

 

I do think there  is  a general problem of how are women portrayed in games. Many times( even mostly?),  across  whole game,   they are  protrayed not as realistic people with personalty, opinion, and equal role in the story,  instead their main role  is to be portayed as eye candy  for male protagonist or player,  offering sex as a reward to achieve  for male protagonist, helpless damsel in distress to rescue or helpless victim to be avanged, while only men are active participants in the events.

 

The thing is, Mass effect series and Dragon age series are not like that. So even if they include  or would include women strippers or prostitutes, could still anybody really claim of those serries , that they portay   men   as wholesome characters with personalites  and women as sex objects or plot points? Absolutely not, because in those games men and women portayed in different and diverse roles. Byitself, including  exaggeratedly sexy women, or strippers or prostiltutes, if it is among others, is not by itself  problematic.

 

As for morality of portraing paying to prostute in a game for sex, I am divided. It is indeed not simply another work.

 

In real world I think paying to a prostitute  for sex, is, as a rule,  extremely wrong, since in our world,  almost always, women don't really chose to become prostitutes, they are not simply women who at one point o their lives thought "Hm, what proffesion should i choose, should i become prostitute or nanny, or maybe engeneer?. Yeah, I chose prostitution, its is the best!" No, as a rule, they do it because they feel that thay have to, or they are forced to, because of shitty cicrmstances of thier lives. Maybe it is because of drug addiction, maybe it is because of abuse and demands from a person on whom they are extremely emotionaly and financialy  dempendant on, maybe it becuse of difficulty to function normaly, bacause of traumas from childhood sexual abuse. Those are majority of cases. And sex with a women who don't want it and don't really chose it, but have to do it or forced to do it, is sort of like rape, the way I see it.

 

But in a  fantasy game? I'm not sure. It  maybe in a fantasy world culture it is different, and  these women   really chose and want to work as prostitues, and so it is not that immoral  to pay them for sex .  Or maybe it is simply a portrayal or immoral choice by the player,  since there already choices where you can murder people, or even  whole tribes.

[Sully13]

[joejoe099]

Do you want this in your game?

 

http://youtu.be/eGCp8d8n90U

 

if it was about penises, you'd have covered nearly half of iron bull's lines there alone.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Brothel? waste of coins. You don't need to pay for sex, just like Andraste intended.

[joejoe099]

 

I do think there  is  a general problem of how are women portrayed in games. Many times( even mostly?),  across  whole game,   they are  protrayed not as realistic people with personalty, opinion, and equal role in the story,  instead their main role  is to be portayed as eye candy  for male protagonist or player,  offering sex as a reward to achieve  for male protagonist, helpless damsel in distress to rescue or helpless victim to be avanged, while only men are active participants in the events.

 

 

what, may I ask, is so wrong with that in the first place? People not being the focus of a story, acting as side characters? Seems perfectly normal, but suddenly it's important if it's a woman? Really? Oh, and historically a woman who's good to sexy looking has been seen as powerful, same as men who have large muscles aka sexy looking are in the same stature, powerful. Why is there a sudden hatred towards it because men also enjoy good looking females? Should we cover women in burqa's and control how they show their bodies to avoid men from looking at them and supposedly see them as less human because they enjoy their looks?

 

If anything, you continue this mentality that women are so helpless that they can't even deal with men looking at them and thinking they look good.

[InfinitePaths]

what, may I ask, is so wrong with that in the first place? People not being the focus of a story, acting as side characters? Seems perfectly normal, but suddenly it's important if it's a woman? Really? Oh, and historically a woman who's good to sexy looking has been seen as powerful, same as men who have large muscles aka sexy looking are in the same stature, powerful. Why is there a sudden hatred towards it because men also enjoy good looking females? Should we cover women in burqa's and control how they show their bodies to avoid men from looking at them and supposedly see them as less human because they enjoy their looks?

 

If anything, you continue this mentality that women are so helpless that they can't even deal with men looking at them and thinking they look good.

 

You missed the point.

 

The person wasn't claiming that hot women are bad in video games.

 

The person claimed that women who only exist to be hot are bad in video games.

[joejoe099]

You missed the point.

 

The person wasn't claiming that hot women are bad in video games.

 

The person claimed that women who only exist to be hot are bad in video games.

 

but near everything in games exist for a reason else why would they put the time and effort to model it. my question is, why is bioware's obvious fan-girl servicing is any better/worse than other game's half-fanservice, half important to plot/semi important?

 

and how does this hurt feminists ideals in the real world? Wow, a guy can feel a little power, let's take that away because I find it offense.

[pottman]

if it was about penises, you'd have covered nearly half of iron bull's lines there alone.

 

True.

[OsiriNara]

I find the lack of surprise nugs disturbing

[pottman]

I find the lack of surprise nugs disturbing

Dwarf in drag.

[Cyaxares]

but near everything in games exist for a reason else why would they put the time and effort to model it. my question is, why is bioware's obvious fan-girl servicing is any better/worse than other game's half-fanservice, half important to plot/semi important?

 

and how does this hurt feminists ideals in the real world? Wow, a guy can feel a little power, let's take that away because I find it offense.

 

 

The problem in games, is not that such female characters exist,  the problem is the prevalence,when in  too many games( probably most games?), it is the norm, and it is only , or almost only, such characters, either eye candy  for male protagonist or player,  offering sex as a reward to achieve  for male protagonist, helpless damsel in distress to rescue or helpless victim to be avenged. It is like, if most movies would be like James Bond movies from the 60ies, if that was the standard.

 

As I said, I don't think Bioware recent  franchases suffer from this problem, but most other games? Like first Witcher game for example, its different.

[Rannik]

It's actually pretty scary how so many people can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.

 

Must be nice being so privileged that you can even care about such meaningless stuff.

[Sully13]

Dwarf in drag.

If that floats your boat

[joejoe099]

The problem in games, is not that such female characters exist,  the problem is the prevalence,when in  too many games( probably most games?), it is the norm, and it is only , or almost only, such characters, either eye candy  for male protagonist or player,  offering sex as a reward to achieve  for male protagonist, helpless damsel in distress to rescue or helpless victim to be avenged. It is like, if most movies would be like James Bond movies from the 60ies, if that was the standard.

 

As I said, I don't think Bioware recent  franchases suffer from this problem, but most other games? Like first Witcher game for example, its different.

 

Name a few games that do this. Where when you play it, you actually play it for that reason, instead of what you imply is actually just white-static on the actual impact of the game.

 

 

It's actually pretty scary how so many people can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.

 

Must be nice being so privileged that you can even care about such meaningless stuff.

 

I know right? I do so love being so privileged I get yelled at for simply existing in a middle to lower middle class neighborhood by people far richer than me saying i'm racist for not focusing on people's differences. Let me tell you, it's tough.

[KaiserShep]

Brothel? waste of coins. You don't need to pay for sex, just like Andraste intended.

 

Besides, with enough heart icons, you can pretty much get it for free at your castle. 

[Sully13]

Brothel? waste of coins. You don't need to pay for sex, just like Andraste intended.

You can get pay'd for sex?... where the hell was that in my work experiance? 

[Laughing_Man]

No they didn't, because the Qun doesn't look at Krem as a woman.*sigh*

 

 

Krem isn't a woman, Apostrophe.

 

Yeah right, because the Qun was always about the right of the individual to self-determinate.

 

But that's beside the point. As I wrote before, they most likely like males better for soldiering for purely biological reasons.

What Krem thinks about his gender is largely irrelevant to this issue.

 

Here is a quote from wiki for you regarding Male & Female biological differences:

 

Quote "Indirect sex differences are general differences as quantified by empirical data and statistical analysis. Most differing characteristics will conform to a bell-curve (i.e., normal) distribution which can be broadly described by the mean (peak distribution) and standard deviation (indicator of size of range)..."

"...For example, most males are taller and stronger than females..."

End quote

 

Of course, the Qun might also have some prejudices against females performing certain roles for whatever reason, just like they might have similar attitude and ideas toward males in certain roles.

[KaiserShep]

Maybe Bull just isn't very good at applying the standards of the Qun.

[Laughing_Man]

Maybe Bull just isn't very good at applying the standards of the Qun.

I don't think there is a lot of room for misunderstanding in what he said. He is either right or wrong.

He might not be a very "religious" Qunari, but that does not mean that he doesn't know their standards and general rules.

[Nathair Nimheil]

they most likely like males better for soldiering for purely biological reasons.
 
Here is a quote from wiki for you regarding Male & Female biological differences:
 
Quote "Indirect sex differences are general differences as quantified by empirical data and statistical analysis. Most differing characteristics will conform to a bell-curve (i.e., normal) distribution which can be broadly described by the mean (peak distribution) and standard deviation (indicator of size of range)..."
"...For example, most males are taller and stronger than females..."
End quote

.

[hellbiter88]

THANK YOU for someone else posting a thread on this!

 

And with this new engine??

 

Such a waste of good graphics.

[Sully13]

you knoe what i forget what the topic of this thread was.

[hellbiter88]

you knoe what i forget what the topic of this thread was.

 

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