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[Rusted Cage]

I have been playing a bit of multiplayer again recently and was quite taken with the Asari Justicar adept and her Biotic Sphere. Shame it's not available to the player in single player as it could have switched gameplay up a bit. Anyhow, I also enjoyed Reave which is a Bonus Power I can use in SP. So I was thinking about doing a playthrough based on the class and a bit of Samara's ME 2 & 3 class skills and weapon proficiency's in assault rifles and SMGs.

 

I don't often play Biotic classes so have never used Reave before in ME3.

The questions are, do I stick with Adept and throw out singularity just to focus on Throw, Pull, Warp and Reave, or do I go with something a bit rougher like Vanguard which would only give me Pull and Reave from the Justicar skillset but also give me more versatility like access to an ammo power? Also, if I use SMGs and ARs, what combination would suit each other so there isn't that overlap redundancy inherent in these two weapon types?

[RedCaesar97]

Well, if you are going for a Samara-clone build, then Adept with Pull, Throw, and Reave (no Warp, but you have Reave).

 

As for ARs and SMGs, any fully-automatic AR and SMG will overlap, and burst-fire AR and SMG will overlap.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Burst-fire SMGs: Shuriken, Hornet

Fully-automatic SMGs: Tempest, Locust, Punisher, Hurricane, Geth SMG.

 

Burst-fire ARs: Vindicator, Argus, Valkerie

Fully-automatic ARs: Avenger, Lancer, Phaeston, Revenant, Typhoon, Geth Pulse Rifle, Harrier, Particle Rifle, Striker

Semi-automatic: Mattock, Falcon, Saber, Chakram Launcher, Adas Anti-synthetic rifle

 

 

And if you want to limit yourself further to Samara-clone, then:

SMG choices: Shuriken, Tempest, Locust (or Hornet if you want an actual ME2-style Shuriken)

AR choices: Avenger, Vindicator, Mattock, Geth Pulse Rifle, Lancer (I'll count it)

[cap and gown]

In ME3 Reave can be used to either detonate or prime explosions. That makes it much more powerful than in ME2. When I played the Justicar I would focus on Pull->Reave for explosions on unprotected enemies. But you're not going to be able to do that in ME2. Only Warp will give you the explosions. Reave works great at lower difficulties when there are lots of unprotected enemies, but when you get to hardcore it won't buy you as much as Singularity which can hold people in place and set them up for explosions. Of course, you could focus on Pull and have your team mates do the booming for you (Thane and Miranda). But then you lose the CC of Singularity. Maybe you could look at Singularity as a substitute for the bubble. (I generally set up the bubble in an offensive manner rather than defensive.)

[spockjedi]

You can do pretty much anything with just Throw, Pull and Reave. Double pull followed by double throw will devastate hordes of unprotected enemies, and Reave followed by throw will hurt protected enemies.
My adept carried a Cerberus Harrier (with extended magazine and piercing mod) and a Blood Pack Punisher (with ultralight materials). They complemented each other very nicely: one weapon was for long ranges and the other had much more spare ammo. With everything at Level V, power recharge bonus was 178%, which was more than enough.
In ME2, go for Mattock, Locust and Phalanx. In ME, the HMWA VII and X are the best ARs.

[Rusted Cage]

Thanks for the advice gents, much appreciated.

 

You can do pretty much anything with just Throw, Pull and Reave. Double pull followed by double throw will devastate hordes of unprotected enemies, and Reave followed by throw will hurt protected enemies.

This is part of why I was thinking Vanguard could be a better fit otherwise it's a simple Adept but with Reave instead of Singularity or Throw. A Vanguard would limit my Biotics to just Reave and Pull.

 

 

Well, if you are going for a Samara-clone build, then Adept with Pull, Throw, and Reave (no Warp, but you have Reave).

 

As for ARs and SMGs, any fully-automatic AR and SMG will overlap, and burst-fire AR and SMG will overlap.

 

Off the top of my head:

 

Burst-fire SMGs: Shuriken, Hornet

Fully-automatic SMGs: Tempest, Locust, Punisher, Hurricane, Geth SMG.

 

Burst-fire ARs: Vindicator, Argus, Valkerie

Fully-automatic ARs: Avenger, Lancer, Phaeston, Revenant, Typhoon, Geth Pulse Rifle, Harrier, Particle Rifle, Striker

Semi-automatic: Mattock, Falcon, Saber, Chakram Launcher, Adas Anti-synthetic rifle

 

 

And if you want to limit yourself further to Samara-clone, then:

SMG choices: Shuriken, Tempest, Locust (or Hornet if you want an actual ME2-style Shuriken)

AR choices: Avenger, Vindicator, Mattock, Geth Pulse Rifle, Lancer (I'll count it)

Thanks for that list, Avenger and Hornet might be fun if I mod the Avenger with a scope, relying on the Hornet for short range. Thinking I might want something heavier to reduce cooldown, stopping this from becoming an explosion fest.

[RedCaesar97]

Thanks for that list, Avenger and Hornet might be fun if I mod the Avenger with a scope, relying on the Hornet for short range. Thinking I might want something heavier to reduce cooldown, stopping this from becoming an explosion fest.

 

Well you have two choices for that:

1. With the Adept, take Squad Bonus at rank 5 instead of weight capacity.

 

2. Take a heavier assault rifle and/or use mods that increase weight. Like the Saber with armor-piercing barrel (adds +50% weight) and maybe the Thermal Scope (adds +50% weight). Of course if you use the Saber you will not have much need for an SMG, but that is true of any weapon. Hard to justify taking two weapons in this game when you only ever need one. (Part of why I miss the protection mechanics of ME2.)

[Rusted Cage]

Well you have two choices for that:

1. With the Adept, take Squad Bonus at rank 5 instead of weight capacity.

 

2. Take a heavier assault rifle and/or use mods that increase weight. Like the Saber with armor-piercing barrel (adds +50% weight) and maybe the Thermal Scope (adds +50% weight). Of course if you use the Saber you will not have much need for an SMG, but that is true of any weapon. Hard to justify taking two weapons in this game when you only ever need one. (Part of why I miss the protection mechanics of ME2.)

The more I'm playing this the more one weapon type is feeling redundant. It might be worthwhile just to stick to the standard pistol/smg loadout.

[Vazgen]

The more I'm playing this the more one weapon type is feeling redundant. It might be worthwhile just to stick to the standard pistol/smg loadout.

Not sure how it is in multiplayer, but in single player the same issue persists. The key is to use sidearm to complement weakness of the assault rifle. Obviously the assault rifle needs to have a weakness lol

For example, Vindicator + Talon covers both ranges. The thing about multiplayer is that ammo is not an issue, so having a backup sidearm is not really necessary.

I rolled with Avenger + Predator in ME3 single player and actually used both weapons. Avenger ran out of ammo a few times, and Predator works better against armor. That said, the percentage was about 85 to 15

[RedCaesar97]

I rolled with Avenger + Predator in ME3 single player and actually used both weapons. 

 

Because you have to unload the Avenger's entire ammo store before you can kill even a Cerberus Trooper?

[Vazgen]

Because you have to unload the Avenger's entire ammo store before you can kill even a Cerberus Trooper?

No, it's actually quite good against mooks. My setup didn't have anything to deal with shields though and I used it ME2 style before getting Tali + Garrus (Energy Drain + Concussive Shot). I had an Engineer with only drone (Explosive + Shields&Damage + Chain Lightning) and Sabotage (Duration, Explosive Hack, Berserk) with roleplay limitation of only using sabotage on "hackable" targets (turrets, Atlases, geth). 

Avenger is quite good if you're a semi-decent shot. Basically focusing on headshots and shooting in short bursts made it quite good. It looked similar to ME2 cinematic trailer

[Rusted Cage]

Not sure how it is in multiplayer, but in single player the same issue persists. The key is to use sidearm to complement weakness of the assault rifle. Obviously the assault rifle needs to have a weakness lol

For example, Vindicator + Talon covers both ranges. The thing about multiplayer is that ammo is not an issue, so having a backup sidearm is not really necessary.

I rolled with Avenger + Predator in ME3 single player and actually used both weapons. Avenger ran out of ammo a few times, and Predator works better against armor. That said, the percentage was about 85 to 15

A Vindicator/Talon combo would be quiet sweet, but I like pistols so much I'd probably use nothing but the Talon.

 

I'm probably going to call blank slate on this project. As fun as it is causing Reave detonations, the damage reduction it confers is barely noticeable to make it a better choice than the standard Warp detonation. It's almost as if Reave is better suited to a more tankier class.

[Rusted Cage]

Got another question for you. I'm falling in love with Adept heavy melee force-push. I I wanted to build around that, what sort of setup would you guys recommend in terms of bonus powers?

[RedCaesar97]

Considering it is a melee build, then shotgun with the Omni Blade.

 

Probably Fortification for max melee bonus and as much damage reduction as you can (or max damage reduction with less melee bonus). Purge > wait for cooldown > re-activate for damage reduction > about 25 seconds to run around and melee.

 

Another option would maybe be Dark Channel (with Slow Movement bonus) so you can try to follow it around and melee whoever it hits.

 

Or Energy Drain set to max radius and shield boost and armor boost, then use it to stun enemies as you charge in for the melee.

 

Or Proximity Mine for the damage taken bonus or possibly the chill bonus.

 

 

 

Or maybe use the Falcon (essentially requires NG+) to stagger enemies as you rush in.

[Vazgen]

I'd go for Energy Drain. Adept's heavy melee is much more effective against unshielded targets and ED allows to take away those shields. Your attack is fast and light, you might be better to focus on those aspects of a playstyle. When you play a melee character, you need to be able to separate enemies. Explosive Singularity, Shockwave and Cluster Grenades should be very helpful.

One thing I noticed during my Melee Infiltrator playthrough is that some (if not all) melee damage bonuses don't apply to heavy melee which is treated as a power. So focusing on power damage instead of melee might be a better idea.

[KrrKs]

One thing I noticed during my Melee Infiltrator playthrough is that some (if not all) melee damage bonuses don't apply to heavy melee which is treated as a power. So focusing on power damage instead of melee might be a better idea.

 

Interesting. I believed that heavy melees count as booth. (Or rather, have 2 components which receive the appropriate effects.)

 

Were there any specialities about the boni which did not influence heavy melee?

 

(At least in MP, weapon melee upgrades seem to effect heavy-melees as well/normal. AFAIK Fitness upgrades work, too)

[Vazgen]

Interesting. I believed that heavy melees count as booth. (Or rather, have 2 components which receive the appropriate effects.)

 

Were there any specialities about the boni which did not influence heavy melee?

 

(At least in MP, weapon melee upgrades seem to effect heavy-melees as well/normal. AFAIK Fitness upgrades work, too)

It was an overall feeling over the playthrough. My heavy melee damage stopped to increase at a certain point while pistol whipping Atlas removed one armor bar at every two hits in the end (which was not the case early on). I can't really tell what affects heavy melee and what not.

[capn233]

If you are on PC it is possible to get biotic sphere in single player, at least with a little modding.

Thread on the topic.

 

http://forum.bioware...-sp-version-20/

 

I haven't done this myself (at least not tinkering with powers other than Stim Pack), but others have used it in there.

[Rusted Cage]

Considering it is a melee build, then shotgun with the Omni Blade.

 

Probably Fortification for max melee bonus and as much damage reduction as you can (or max damage reduction with less melee bonus). Purge > wait for cooldown > re-activate for damage reduction > about 25 seconds to run around and melee.

 

Another option would maybe be Dark Channel (with Slow Movement bonus) so you can try to follow it around and melee whoever it hits.

 

Or Energy Drain set to max radius and shield boost and armor boost, then use it to stun enemies as you charge in for the melee.

 

Or Proximity Mine for the damage taken bonus or possibly the chill bonus.

 

 

 

Or maybe use the Falcon (essentially requires NG+) to stagger enemies as you rush in.

Thanks Red. I was thinking Stasis with the bubble evolution would be good for CC. The Dark Channel idea actually sounds quite fun, though.

Edit: Maybe even Dominate would be a good distracting power to allow me to get closer?

 

I'd go for Energy Drain. Adept's heavy melee is much more effective against unshielded targets and ED allows to take away those shields. Your attack is fast and light, you might be better to focus on those aspects of a playstyle. When you play a melee character, you need to be able to separate enemies. Explosive Singularity, Shockwave and Cluster Grenades should be very helpful.

One thing I noticed during my Melee Infiltrator playthrough is that some (if not all) melee damage bonuses don't apply to heavy melee which is treated as a power. So focusing on power damage instead of melee might be a better idea.

That's interesting and a shame if true. Great ideas on separating enemies.

 

If you are on PC it is possible to get biotic sphere in single player, at least with a little modding.

Thread on the topic.

 

http://forum.bioware...-sp-version-20/

 

I haven't done this myself (at least not tinkering with powers other than Stim Pack), but others have used it in there.

Thanks Capn, I'd love to see gameplay videos of it being used in the campaign. Sadly I'm on the Xbox so the closest I can get is with MP.

[Kurt M.]

Thanks Capn, I'd love to see gameplay videos of it being used in the campaign. Sadly I'm on the Xbox so the closest I can get is with MP.

 

Just one reason to join the PC Master Race

 

Another one? My future build:

 

[Rusted Cage]

In ME3 Reave can be used to either detonate or prime explosions. That makes it much more powerful than in ME2. When I played the Justicar I would focus on Pull->Reave for explosions on unprotected enemies. But you're not going to be able to do that in ME2. Only Warp will give you the explosions. Reave works great at lower difficulties when there are lots of unprotected enemies, but when you get to hardcore it won't buy you as much as Singularity which can hold people in place and set them up for explosions. Of course, you could focus on Pull and have your team mates do the booming for you (Thane and Miranda). But then you lose the CC of Singularity. Maybe you could look at Singularity as a substitute for the bubble. (I generally set up the bubble in an offensive manner rather than defensive.)

Is that in MP Cap? I much preferred the Sphere, so unique to the class that it's a shame not to use it.

I'm preparing for ME3's Justicar build by playing ME2 again, on and off. I'm finding having Jack doing the Pulling is fine for my explosions but really they are not central to my concept here. Mostly I'm using Reave to set up headshots with my pistol and healing in combat.

 

In the few ME3 tests I've run, my grenades have come in handy quite often, especially because of my focus on assault means my cooldowns aren't optimal. I'm trying to balance the duration of Reave with the cooldown so I'm always in a state Damage Reduction but having the ability to use Pull and Reave without the cooldown being so long as to cause the victim to fall.

 

Am I right in thinking that Warp Ammo gets a damage bonus vs all biotic effects and not just "lifted targets"?

[RedCaesar97]

Am I right in thinking that Warp Ammo gets a damage bonus vs all biotic effects and not just "lifted targets"?

 

See this post.

[Rusted Cage]

See this post.

Thanks Caes, I thought I remembered you doing tests on that. The way the conclusion in that post is written is a little ambiguous, or rather it could be very precise. Does "Warp ammo squad bonus damage penalty (50%) does not seem to work" mean that there is no damage penalty to squadmates meaning that they gain the bonus power for free? Or is it saying that the squadmate bonus ammo doesn't work at all?

[RedCaesar97]

Thanks Caes, I thought I remembered you doing tests on that. The way the conclusion in that post is written is a little ambiguous, or rather it could be very precise. Does "Warp ammo squad bonus damage penalty (50%) does not seem to work" mean that there is no damage penalty to squadmates meaning that they gain the bonus power for free? Or is it saying that the squadmate bonus ammo doesn't work at all?

 

That was corlist's post, not mine. His test was with Liara's warp ammo set to Squad Bonus, which meant that her Squad Bonus evolution of Warp Ammo did not add any damage penalties on Shepard when Shepard used it.

 

Note that the only Squad Bonus evolution that seems to work -- at least strictly from an eyeball test, I do not have any hard data -- is Jame's Incendiary Ammo squad bonus. I think the last time I used squad bonus from squadmate bonus powers, I took the +25% ammo capacity evolution and James' Incendiary Ammo was the only one that gave Shepard extra ammo capacity but at a reduced rate. Ashley, Liara, and Garrus's ammos seemed to give Shepard the full +25% ammo capacity.

 

But like I said, I do not have any hard data to back it up. Corlist had tools that extracted game data.

[Rusted Cage]

Thanks for clarifying Red