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[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I just laugh seeing people go on & on about DA:O being "da best game ever!!!" especially when it was blasted at release the same thing with ME2, i remember people being outraged & saying it was "the death of BW & the ME series" funny how things work out

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

BTW, ME2 is one of my favorite games and it isn't old-school, it is just a high quality Bioware game.

Wait? you keep blasting DA:I for being a "crappy MMO" & not a "real RPG" but you love ME2 which plays like a G.O.W clone with pretty much every RPG element from ME1 removed?

[Grieving Natashina]

I just laugh seeing people go on & on about DA:O being "da best game ever!!!" especially when it was blasted at release the same thing with ME2, i remember people being outraged & saying it was "the death of BW & the ME series" funny how things work out

Heh, I remember reading some of it after Origins came out.

 

"You didn't make the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!   You lied to us!  This game is gonna kill BioWare, it won't sell well.  How can anyone like this crap?  They ruined everything that made them good as a company!"

 

For some, it seems, the sky never stops falling.  

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Heh, I remember reading some of it after Origins came out.
 
"You didn't make the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!   You lied to us!  This game is gonna kill BioWare, it won't sell well.  How can anyone like this crap?  They ruined everything that made them good as a company!"
 
For some, it seems, the sky never stops falling.

Is funny that BW pretty much gets a "this game is the final nail in their coffin" from certain "fans" after every game release, they should have been put out of business years ago if true

[dlux]

Wait? you keep blasting DA:I for being a "crappy MMO" & not a "real RPG" but you love ME2 which plays like a G.O.W clone with pretty much every RPG element from ME1 removed?

Are you surprised that somebody who loves deep (old-school) RPGs also likes other genres?

 

Mass Effect is and was always a shooter at it's core, the more or less near superficial attributes in ME1 don't change that. You can't really miss what was really never there. Not to mention that Bioware didn't remove the really important RPG mechanics in ME2, which are the traits resp. abilites and character progression.

[Natureguy85]

I just laugh seeing people go on & on about DA:O being "da best game ever!!!" especially when it was blasted at release the same thing with ME2, i remember people being outraged & saying it was "the death of BW & the ME series" funny how things work out

 

 

Heh, I remember reading some of it after Origins came out.

 

"You didn't make the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!   You lied to us!  This game is gonna kill BioWare, it won't sell well.  How can anyone like this crap?  They ruined everything that made them good as a company!"

 

For some, it seems, the sky never stops falling.  

 

 

Mass Effect 2 was the beginning of the end of the ME series. The main plot sucked but it was buoyed by great characters. ME3 also had a terrible plot and tossed it's characters to the side at the end.

 

Anyway, some of that is dependent on how expectations were built. Origins launched a new IP and series where this is within the same IP and series, so expectations are different..

[Lintton]

I'm going to have to agee with people saying that an origins 2 would not be as well received, or get numbers high than da:i. particularly since a voiced campaign is now possible and done.

So far I think DA:I did the best it could to bridge the fluid story choices(which was liked in origins) as well as the action(which was liked in da2). Can it do better and harder? All games can do better and harder, buy at least here we can see that some of the best aspects of both games can cover for what was lacking in prior iterations, instead of eschewing whole years of work.

[dlux]

I just laugh seeing people go on & on about DA:O being "da best game ever!!!" especially when it was blasted at release the same thing with ME2, i remember people being outraged & saying it was "the death of BW & the ME series" funny how things work out

Heh, I remember reading some of it after Origins came out.
 
"You didn't make the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!   You lied to us!  This game is gonna kill BioWare, it won't sell well.  How can anyone like this crap?  They ruined everything that made them good as a company!"
 
For some, it seems, the sky never stops falling.

Uh huh. What wild imaginations you have.
 
Favorable reception:

Spoiler

 
Mixed or unfavorable reception (DA:I is in here):

Spoiler

[Natureguy85]

 particularly since a voiced campaign is now possible and done.

 

Why would this not be possible in a game more similar to Origins?

[Ultim Asari]

I played origins 3 times, I got what I wanted out of it. I don't want a new version of it, especially when it was the mechanics that were dreadful to me.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Uh huh. What wild imaginations you have.
 
Well received:

Spoiler

 
 
Mixed unfavorable reception (DA:I is in here):

Spoiler

What imagination? when DA:O came out it got similar treatment as DA:I, praised everywhere else for the most part but sh*t on here because it wasn't BG3, pretty much every BW game from the last few years has got the same doomsday "this game is the death of the company" treatment at release

[Grieving Natashina]

Mass Effect 2 was the beginning of the end of the ME series. The main plot sucked but it was buoyed by great characters. ME3 also had a terrible plot and tossed it's characters to the side at the end.

 

That's subjective, and a matter of opinion.  I wouldn't ask you to love the ME games, and I don't begrudge your feelings.  I don't feel the same way, but I think you missed the point in this case.  What Threat and I were getting at was that it didn't kill the company, obviously.  

 

Many times, this goes beyond, "Oh no, it's gonna kill the franchise."  It's, "This is going to kill BioWare as as company."  So far, the ME games (which I personally loved and I'm a latecomer to the series,) nor DA2 have killed BioWare.   I don't think Inquisition is going to kill the franchise at all, and I think that the forums are accentuating the negative to an almost alarming degree.

 

The company isn't going anywhere.  Yet, release after release, it's always the same old thing for those truly dedicated to Gloom and Doom.  

 

"Oh look look!  This game is going to do badly, because it's not like <Whatever other BioWare or other game they can think of> and it doesn't have <whatever the other game has.>  That's it, this can't make real money.  BioWare should just leave EA now, because they are dying as a company."

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Maybe in imaginary land. Inquisition is good but DAO is amazing and will always be Biowares no.1 game for me.

[Grieving Natashina]

Maybe in imaginary land. Inquisition is good but DAO is amazing and will always be Biowares no.1 game for me.

I actually love them both about equally at this point.   I'm not lying either; I found for my own personal experience that Inquisition has indeed been as every good as Origins, and better in some respects. Despite the flaws and bugs both games have, I love them both for what they are.  

 

I will never say with a straight face that Inquisition is perfect and flawless. You kidding me?   I have been in several feedback threads, ranging from bugs to mechanic suggestions.  I don't feel like this was developed really with PC in mind.  The tactical camera is poor, not enough ability slots, ect.  Much of that has been posted elsewhere by others that were more articulate on the subject.

 

 I will never consider jammies at Skyhold at good idea and I think female PCs having literally a dozen styles of bald/shaved was a terrible call.   I was also pretty vocal about some of the other design choices throughout development.

 

I can say though, that I find this game excellent and an improvement in many ways.  There is a lot mechanics that folks have talked about that should have been taken from Origins.    Trust me, as a PC user, I ain't thrilled about their UI, along with the other complaints listed above. 

 

However, I also remember clearly the bugs and issues that Origins and Awakening had as well.  Gods, Awakening is so bugged.  I have a long post dedicated to player created bug fixes for Awakening on the PC.    I also read about some of the pretty bad bugs that used to happen in Origins post launch as well, before the patches came out.  

 

I know not everyone feels the same way.  I wouldn't expect them to, nor am I going to sit here and say that people are wrong for disliking the game or finding Origins better.    It's just been my experiences.  Some folks have had bad experiences and hey, that's never fun.  They aren't wrong for feeling that way.  

 

However, I don't believe I'm wrong or in "imagination land" for loving Inquisition as much as Origins either.  I had a difference experience with the game.  Mine was more positive.  For others, it was very negative.    Nothing more, nothing less

 

I think out of respect for the OP, I'll bow out here.   I don't have anything more productive to say on the subject and I'd rather not argue with fellow fans about this one.  

[Sidney]

ME1 and DAO were great stories and characters groaning under the weight of lousy game mechanics. I want the DAO experience again and again and again but I don't want the DAO game again.

Frankly people parse these things so narrowly that really other than just re skinning DAO and adding a new story in won't satisfy the Luddites because any deviatation from the EXACT formula and mechanics used in DAO is heresy. Hell, you can recall all the caterwauling about the menus in DA2 not looking like that lousy menus from DAO. I think a lot of these types would be happy to see the truffle shuffle in combat come back.

[unclee]

I have said this before, and I will say it again. If something isn't broke, then you don't fix it. Witcher never changed their gameplay up so much just to fit with a broader audience.

 

 

Anyone who doesn't see that there were a ton of problems with DA:O has the nostalgia glasses on a bit too tight. Just like there were a ton of problems with DA2 and DA:I.

 

Also, yes, they did change the gameplay in TW2 to appeal to a broader audience. The menu system alone was very console-fied.

[tmp7704]

Mixed or unfavorable reception (DA:I is in here):

Depends where you look.



(cue obligatory "zomg console peasants")

[Darkly Tranquil]

ME1 and DAO were great stories and characters groaning under the weight of lousy game mechanics. I want the DAO experience again and again and again but I don't want the DAO game again.
Frankly people parse these things so narrowly that really other than just re skinning DAO and adding a new story in won't satisfy the Luddites because any deviatation from the EXACT formula and mechanics used in DAO is heresy. Hell, you can recall all the caterwauling about the menus in DA2 not looking like that lousy menus from DAO. I think a lot of these types would be happy to see the truffle shuffle in combat come back.

I guess I am one of those people you were talking about; I think DAOs mechanics were almost perfect. All the DAO system needs is to give the animations a but more flare ala DA2, and speed the combat up a bit. The underlying systems - the character customisation (stats, spells, skills, gear, runes), tactics, behaviours, and Tactical cam were all executed brilliantly, and I really wish Bioware hasn't discarded so much of them for this game. If DAI's mechanics were more in line with DAOs, it would be an almost perfect game, but as it stands, DAI fails hard on the mechanics side and no amount of beautiful vistas can overcome that.

[In Exile]

Well you can reduce pretty much any main quest to a fetch or kill quest, but when those terms are used derogatorily it's for quests that have no other value. True, killing the Archdemon isn't unique, but it is the story and you have a reason for doing it. While the Origin stories are events happening to the PC, the game doesn't stay that way. The Warden has objectives and direction and needs to make things happen. The Warden also gets to make several choices which are important to the world, even if they don't significantly impact gameplay.

Also, the main quest is not a fetch quest from Flemeth. She merely encourages the two Wardens to do what they are already supposed to do as Wardens.

No. Re-watch the scene. She gives you the fetch quest. Alistair mentions the treaties if you don't. But you as the Warden do not get to come up with it of your own initiative.

And then when you start each quest line you are super passive. You sit back and are given instructions to follow. That is the definition of passive.

The Warden is an amazing killing machine and portrayed as a charismatic leader generally but the Warden is not an active character.

You don't even get to convince Duncan make you a GW. He wants to recruit you from the start and even if you're into it he comes up to you at the end of your origin.

[In Exile]

Heh, I remember reading some of it after Origins came out.

"You didn't make the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate! You lied to us! This game is gonna kill BioWare, it won't sell well. How can anyone like this crap? They ruined everything that made them good as a company!"

For some, it seems, the sky never stops falling.

These posts were there pre-release. My two favourites are that DAO is an MMO clone because of the combat (regenerating health, using mana instead of Vancian casting) and that origin stories are anti-RP (you can't have an anti-social forest hermit as the human PC). Lots of other criticisms too like e.g. that you can't kill random NPCs, there's no reputation system, etc.

[tmp7704]

My two favourites are that DAO is an MMO clone because of the combat (regenerating health, using mana instead of Vancian casting)

Yeah, I still remember ANGRY VIDEOS made to demonstrate how it's completely like MMO combat because it has agro mechanics and skills have CDs.

[In Exile]

Yeah, I still remember ANGRY VIDEOS made to demonstrate how it's completely like MMO combat because it has agro mechanics and skills have CDs.

The forum was a good 20% Bioware is not right to call it the spiritual successor to BG2. Plus do you remember the occasional "why can't we create or own party posts"? Those were always a good time.

Still I miss the old forum. People were nicer.

[Wulfram]

Well, aggro mechanics are a blight that has spread from MMOs.

 

Making exploiting your rubbish AI into a feature is kind of a clever solution, but their dominance is rather tiresome.

[In Exile]

Well, aggro mechanics are a blight that has spread from MMOs.

Making exploiting your rubbish AI into a feature is kind of a clever solution, but their dominance is rather tiresome.

I hate aggro mechanics and I've fought against ever using a tank in every DA game. The crap controls in DAI finally forced me to give up on that even with a KE PC.

[Sidney]

I guess I am one of those people you were talking about; I think DAOs mechanics were almost perfect. All the DAO system needs is to give the animations a but more flare ala DA2, and speed the combat up a bit. The underlying systems - the character customisation (stats, spells, skills, gear, runes), tactics, behaviours, and Tactical cam were all executed brilliantly, and I really wish Bioware hasn't discarded so much of them for this game. If DAI's mechanics were more in line with DAOs, it would be an almost perfect game, but as it stands, DAI fails hard on the mechanics side and no amount of beautiful vistas can overcome that.

 

 

The mechanics were tragic. So much was wrong with combat, i mean it was really trash to be honest. Slow, mindless, I know people make up a lot of tactics that they used but they didn't need to since the "win" button was auto-attack.  Wildly unbalanced crap like mana clash, the artillery spells were silly. The approval system was a total joke. Inventory was close to being a joke and the requirement for stats to use equipment was abysmal. I don't know how that was acceptable. Non-combat skills bordered on being useless in a most of cases and while there were a ton of combat skills the overall need for any of them was nil and most weren't used. I mean you had an entire specialization (shapeshifting) that was worthless.  Then you had the vaunted tactics system that was encumbered by the fact that you had to levelo up to learn to use a new tactics slot - 2 at least fixed that bit of crazy. No, ME1's mechanics were worse as a game but DAO was a junker under the hood.

 

...as you can see, I disagree a bit