207 réponses à ce sujet

[Treacherous J Slither]

I'm not having a problem grasping anything. I just recall spending an entire chapter fighting blood mages/abominations. Why are the actual events in the game so hard to remember, but we have a thread saying Hawke was OOC? I mean, seriously, can anyone that can't remember events in the game actually remember if Hawke is in or out of character?

 

I remember fighting blood mages and abominations.

 

I also remember fighting bandits, mercenaries, Templars, Qunari, slavers, giant spiders, undead, darkspawn, dragons, and demons.

[Ladyinsanity]

You really don't seem to know what you're talking about. All your references to Hawkes father prove that. Hawke had nothing against blood magic if you chose to play him that way. You need to replay the game because you clearly have mo idea.

 

Really - I have to play again to just prove that Hawke's father's situation was a situation that, in all and every variation, the Wardens made him do blood magic clearly against his will?

 

Chosing blood magic-friendly choices in the past in this case is irrelevant. Hawke's mother and father are fixed narrative situations where their role was intertwined with blood magic. You don't get to choose to agree or disagree with Quentin using blood magic against your mother, nor Hawke's father using blood magic. They happen and the way Hawke responds (diplomatic, sarcastic, aggressive) is always on the negative (in varying degrees). Towards Janeka and towards Larius. Towards the whole situation.

 

These two examples are not about my canon, nor your canon. Hawke's mother and father have two poignant, isolated situations where their role with blood magic happened because they just did. Why? Because that's how they were written. 

 

On the side: If we want to talk about roleplaying, I had a Hawke who used blood magic. I had a Hawke who AGREED with Anders decisions, let alone romanced him. I played the blood-magic lover role many times in my playthroughs. To me, it feels like Hawke's parents' situation alone is still in sync with Hawke feeling so strongly to detest the stuff. I don't see it hypocritical, even if my Hawke clamored to use blood magic in DA2 at every turn, as blood magic isn't some one-dimensional thing that you can completely agree with in the game through roleplaying choices. (Sure, you can completely agree with Merrill for the demon and using blood magic, but the cause is just as important as the method. Merrill doesn't use blood magic for a nefarious purpose, and none of the options in DA2 where you can condone blood magic are cases where blood magic is used for a purpose like satisfying a demon army). 

 

There are variations of blood magic - as a catalyst, as a sacrificial crutch, etc. And the methods that other people use it for. Not every action made through blood magic is the same, or produces the same result. Or is used in the same context. If your mother ends up dying because of someone using blood magic, that can still leave a bad taste in your mouth no matter how many times you slit your wrists.

[New Kid]

Blood magic didn't cause anything. It cannot think for itself or even perform the simplest of tasks. It is simply a school of magic.

 

People have used blood magic for a variety of things good and bad and whatever issues anyone has with any of the events that have taken place involving the use of blood magic should take these issues up with these particular individuals and attribute whatever blame there is to them and their actions.

Maybe 'caused' is the wrong term, I apoligise. Seems to me that most people would blame the tool used for an action just as much as the as the person using the tool.

[robertthebard]

I remember fighting blood mages and abominations.
 
I also remember fighting bandits, mercenaries, Templars, Qunari, slavers, giant spiders, undead, darkspawn, dragons, and demons.

Seems to me that the latter are pretty common, everywhere. I seem to recall killing the majority of that list in Origins, and, with some obvious exceptions, as far back as Baldur's Gate. So I'm struggling with what your point is. Because they were common mobs, Hawke shouldn't have any feelings about them one way or another, despite what these common mobs wound up leading to? At the end of the day, after all, Anders was an abomination. Justice was twisted by Anders into Vengeance, and that's straight from the horse's mouth, I'm not making it up. So one of the primary causes of the conflicts in Inquisition was brought on by an abomination, but despite all the destruction that it's caused, short of the enclave, that's a separate issue, Hawke should have been "It's all good, because it's really nobody's fault"?

[robertthebard]

Blood magic didn't cause anything. It cannot think for itself or even perform the simplest of tasks. It is simply a school of magic.
 
People have used blood magic for a variety of things good and bad and whatever issues anyone has with any of the events that have taken place involving the use of blood magic should take these issues up with these particular individuals and attribute whatever blame there is to them and their actions.

You're exactly right. I blame blood mages, and their school of thought for the whole thing. If not for them, southern Thedas wouldn't be a war torn mess with mages and Templars killing any and everyone who gets caught in the middle. No self respecting hero should be blaming these issues on the root cause, blood mages using blood magic, it's not like they turned themselves into abominations and fought against anyone during the game. It's not like the Circles frown on it's use either. I'm sure there's the "How to safely use Blood Magic" classes, you just have to attend those while the Templars are asleep, right?

I post the snark, and can't help but remember the mage origin, and Jowan, and think, hey, if Jowan hadn't learned blood magic, he wouldn't have had most of the problems he had. The Circle had no proof, initially, until he gave it to them. Suspected use of the "tool" was enough to slate him for tranquility. Were they overreacting? Redcliffe would beg to differ. Surely, if you're ok with the tool, you just sacrificed Isolde to save the village, right? There's nothing wrong with that, is there? Arl Eamon might disagree, and too bad that he doesn't, it could have made the Landsmeet really interesting if he was against you for killing his wife. Sadly, the PC has Blood Magic plot armor, otherwise, people's opinions might be really different here.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Seems to me that the latter are pretty common, everywhere. I seem to recall killing the majority of that list in Origins, and, with some obvious exceptions, as far back as Baldur's Gate. So I'm struggling with what your point is. Because they were common mobs, Hawke shouldn't have any feelings about them one way or another, despite what these common mobs wound up leading to? At the end of the day, after all, Anders was an abomination. Justice was twisted by Anders into Vengeance, and that's straight from the horse's mouth, I'm not making it up. So one of the primary causes of the conflicts in Inquisition was brought on by an abomination, but despite all the destruction that it's caused, short of the enclave, that's a separate issue, Hawke should have been "It's all good, because it's really nobody's fault"?

 

I said what I said because DAI Hawke preaches about how horrible blood magic is as if it's the worst thing ever. She's had to deal with a lot more than that. Yet she isn't on a soapbox about half of it.

 

What i'm trying to point out is my Hawke would have an issue with the actions that certain individuals took and not the tools that they used. She wouldn't rail against all blood magic and blood mages in general. She would rail against the actions of certain blood mages. I'm saying blame the person not the magic.

[Angloassassin]

My Hawke was a Blood Mage - but I find that his hate for it can really be justified. Even if a little silly since He was one. But I think anyone can come to hate something, even if it's what they're best at. Like that one Mage in DA:O who thought magic was a curse on mankind.  

 

Stuff like that.

[LostInReverie19]

I just find Hawke's lines about blood magic jarring, because supposedly DA2 was an RPG, you know, a role-playing game, where you could imagine your Hawke how you wanted him/her to be. Hawke could actually be a damn blood mage. If the developers regret that decision, that's fine, but they included it, and they have to acknowledge that fact. Just dismissing it as a game mechanic is pretty weak. Oh, your Hawke wasn't really a blood mage, and let's just forget our marketing Hawke completely, and now let's have some one-size-fits-all lines for Hawke, because that will totally work out well. Psht. 

[movieguyabw]

I was bothered by it at first then it all sort of came together during the Fade mission. To me, the way he talked about blood magic sounded like it came from someone who had a deeply personal knowledge of the subject. Whether or not they were a bloodmage, they witnessed the atrocities in Kirkwall first hand, and they have had more negative experiences with the subject than most. So to me, it made sense that Hawke had changed his views on blood magic following the end of DA2. I don't think it was immediately or over night - but I do feel that (whether they're wrong in thinking it or not) they would come to be very distrustful of blood magic as a whole; and would probably stop using it themselves.

That being said, I think its possible that if they survive they might end up changing their mind again. It might just be that the events of Kirkwall just feel too recent still for them.

[Treacherous J Slither]

You're exactly right. I blame blood mages, and their school of thought for the whole thing. If not for them, southern Thedas wouldn't be a war torn mess with mages and Templars killing any and everyone who gets caught in the middle. No self respecting hero should be blaming these issues on the root cause, blood mages using blood magic, it's not like they turned themselves into abominations and fought against anyone during the game. It's not like the Circles frown on it's use either. I'm sure there's the "How to safely use Blood Magic" classes, you just have to attend those while the Templars are asleep, right?

I post the snark, and can't help but remember the mage origin, and Jowan, and think, hey, if Jowan hadn't learned blood magic, he wouldn't have had most of the problems he had. The Circle had no proof, initially, until he gave it to them. Suspected use of the "tool" was enough to slate him for tranquility. Were they overreacting? Redcliffe would beg to differ. Surely, if you're ok with the tool, you just sacrificed Isolde to save the village, right? There's nothing wrong with that, is there? Arl Eamon might disagree, and too bad that he doesn't, it could have made the Landsmeet really interesting if he was against you for killing his wife. Sadly, the PC has Blood Magic plot armor, otherwise, people's opinions might be really different here.

 

Blood mages aren't some unified force. They don't all share hopes, dreams, desires, or goals. Blood mages are as different from each other as mundane hunters or farmers.

 

If not for the Circle system of mage oppression there wouldn't have been a war between Templars and ex Circle mages in the first place. The root cause is not blood mages using blood magic but people screwing other people over out of fear and ignorance. Mages need to learn how to control their power and contribute to society. However they do not need to be locked up which is what the Chantry advocates and it's what has lead to the war. Blood magic should be taught so that it can be better understood. With more knowledge comes more effective ways of using it and fighting against it.

 

Just because i'm okay with blood magic doesn't mean that I would choose to it use at every given opportunity. Isolde volunteered for that sacrifice btw. Eamon can get as mad as he wants. It won't change the fact that it was her choice. No one forced her.

 

Jowan had the problems he had because of the oppressive Circle system. Tranquility is wrong and so is the Harrowing. Jowan wanted to escape these things and so would anyone in their right mind.

 

Redcliffe happened because Connor wasn't properly trained. However, even with training bad things can still happen. In a case like that a Templar force made up of mages and mundanes should be called in to handle it. Magic and mages aren't going away and these sorts of things are bound to happen. Dealing with it in a way that doesn't antagonize the mundanes or the mages is the most sensible approach. Otherwise the conflict will never end.

[Fardreamer]

To address the argument some people are saying that after 4 years, Hawke could have changed his views:

 

That's just garbage.  We're not talking about some companion or NPC here.  We're talking about OUR protagonist.  The one we spent the whole game making into the person we wanted them to be.  I don't like when BW drastically changes a companion from game to game like they did with Liara and Leliana, but I can deal with it.  But I'd put my foot down at them deciding to change my Warden or Hawke or Inquisitor just because.  That's my character.  They didn't design him... I did.

[AresKeith]

I was more disappointed that sarcastic Hawke wasn't half the lovable sociopath she was in DA2

 

They finally realized that there's a time and place for certain things

[AresKeith]

To address the argument some people are saying that after 4 years, Hawke could have changed his views:

 

That's just garbage.  We're not talking about some companion or NPC here.  We're talking about OUR protagonist.  The one we spent the whole game making into the person we wanted them to be.  I don't like when BW drastically changes a companion from game to game like they did with Liara and Leliana, but I can deal with it.  But I'd put my foot down at them deciding to change my Warden or Hawke or Inquisitor just because.  That's my character.  They didn't design him... I did.

 

Ummm no, ultimately they are Bioware's character

[Angloassassin]

Ummm no, ultimately they are Bioware's character

 

This is correct.

 

And expecting anyone's views to stay the same after years of traumatic events is nothing more than Willful Obstinance.

[SSH83]

 It almost makes me wish he didn't show up at all because they did a half-assed job with him. 

 

You're the reason why developers are scared to death showing cameo of the warden.  Imagine the amount of hate from people like you will be if they can't get it right (and with so many origins, unlike the single-origin hawke, they are bound to get it "half-assed.)  So thanks to your hateful attitude, we'll never see the warden in cameo.  

[KaiserShep]

Overall I thought Hawke's characterization was just neutral enough to work. My only real issue is this strong tie to the Wardens, even if the sibling him/herself isn't one. Like, f*** those guys man. You don't owe them jack. I trust that this will be resolved at some point and Hawke can break it off with those jokers. Anyway, the humorous comment when entering the Fade pretty much sealed the deal for me.

[AresKeith]

Overall I thought Hawke's characterization was just neutral enough to work. My only real issue is this strong tie to the Wardens, even if the sibling him/herself isn't one. Like, f*** those guys man. You don't owe them jack. I trust that this will be resolved at some point and Hawke can break it off with those jokers. Anyway, the humorous comment when entering the Fade pretty much sealed the deal for me.

 

Techincally Hawke does, Hawke feels that he/she is responsible for them because of Cory being free 

[KaiserShep]

Which is kind of strange, since it was Grey Wardens who trapped Hawke in the first place.

[Duelist]

Overall I thought Hawke's characterization was just neutral enough to work. My only real issue is this strong tie to the Wardens, even if the sibling him/herself isn't one. Like, f*** those guys man. You don't owe them jack. I trust that this will be resolved at some point and Hawke can break it off with those jokers. Anyway, the humorous comment when entering the Fade pretty much sealed the deal for me.

I agree. Only one thing annoyed me about my Hawke: the f***** wouldn't use Assassinate.

[KaiserShep]

I was still disappointed to see that Hawke somehow lost both Finesse and Spider's heart.

[Lucky Thirteen]

I thought DA2 didn't even recognize Hawke as a blood mage. The issue was completely ignored in DA2, why would it suddenly become a thing in DaI?

 

There are only three things that really bugged me about Hawke:

 

1.Few jokes. In fact, she came out so soft and gentle I thought the game glitched out on her personality.

 

2.For some reason mid way through the fade she stops using her sword and shield and starts just hitting everyone with her fists. Stop showing off you arrogant, smug brat.

 

3.She mysteriously disappears when she visits the Wardens? I swear to God if they make her a Warden I'm going to rage so bad.

[AresKeith]

Which is kind of strange, since it was Grey Wardens who trapped Hawke in the first place.

 

Who knows maybe Stroud/ Alistair/ Loghain was about to convince Hawke. 

 

(I still feel Stroud should've appeared regardless)

[KaiserShep]

3.She mysteriously disappears when she visits the Wardens? I swear to God if they make her a Warden I'm going to rage so bad.

 

Yeah, that'd be some real bull**** right there. I don't think BioWare would do such a thing, because actively choosing to be a Warden would be such a character-breaking disaster, but the possibility is now going to irk me a little until it's resolved lol

[DetcelferVisionary]

Hawke was in character.

 

/Thread