207 réponses à ce sujet

[ME_Fan]

Funny how the iconic default Hawke actually uses blood magic in the first trailer for DA2, all those red scars on his arm are from when he's drawn his own blood.

[Angloassassin]

Did you play the Broken Circle mission at all? Hey, one blood mage wanted to surrender, after you whipped her friend's asses and almost hers. The rest of them were pretty much out to get you. Uldred proposed a plan, and they enacted the plan, that's a pretty unified force. The crap in Kirkwall? Sort of a mixed bag, wasn't it? You had caves with them in it, that did act as a group, and lots of solo artists. The problem is, how many "good" blood mages were there? Hawke, maybe? Merrill? Pretty much means the rest of them "weren't good", right? So, if I'm going to take law of averages into consideration, blood magic == bad, since the majority of blood mages I've run into wanted to kill me.

 

Spoiler alert, that one mage that surrendered? Go back down and *Really* Look at the area near the lowered barrier. The children and apprentices are dead, killed by the blood mage.

[Marshal Moriarty]

I think people trying to account for Hawke's behaviour and personality, are missing the point. What many of us who did like Hawke object to is that previously *we* decided how Hawke reacted to things, and in this game its Bioware deciding for us. Big surprise - they can't account for how ever player individually played that character (remember that even with the personality system, you didn't have to choose the same tone every time - it just collated how Hawke approach life in general, but doesn't speak to individual issues and situations).

 

So many of us feel with that being the case, that its pointless to bring such a character back in this way. Either they come back in a DLC as the player character or something like that, or don't bring them back at all. Because the Hawke we got is a largely periphral character that says and does very little and feels like just another NPC - which is already out of character for such a forceful and charismatic character. DA2 made it clear that certain things were always true about Hawke's character, but let us fill in the details ourselves - basically giving us the script and letting us improv the character's actual lines.

 

But what is said and done by Hawke in Inquisition, frequently feels out of character from the character we played. Just trying to say 'Oh well because X has happened, then that would mean Hawke would feel Y and do X' is pointless and erroneous. It may be how *your* Hawke would have done things, but its not how MY (or anyone else's individual) Hawke would have acted. It was just a bad idea to bring the character back this way from the start.

 

Basically, you can't tell each individual person on this thread that Hawke's behavior was in keeping with their characters. Because you don't know that - the only person who is qualified to judge that is the person in question, who played the character through DA2 in their own way, with their own choices, and headcanon to guide them on what tone and decisions Hawke adopted in each specific moment.

[Sabbatine]

 

While they did a good job of keeping the diplomatic, sarcastic, or aggressive personalities... they screwed up big time by making Hawke default to being anti-blood magic.  It almost makes me wish he didn't show up at all because they did a half-assed job with him. 

 

In short, main-protagonist cameos are great, but make sure you invest the time a resources into getting them right!  It would have been easy to add a tile to the Keep to show whether Hawke supported Blood magic or not.

 

Regardless of whether he supported blood magic while you played him or not, a lot of time has passed so the flawed view of blood magic you forced him to adopt in DA2 could be corrected as he came to his senses free of your influence...

[robertthebard]

Uldreds group and Graces group were two separate groups that had no knowledge of each others existence. Obviously. You're just messing with me now aren't you?
 
We have no idea how many good blood mages exist because they wouldn't try to make their presence known since being one is punishable by death. Any random npc could very well be an incognito blood mage. Any good mage you meet could also be a blood mage and are simply hiding it for fear of being discovered.

I'm thinking that any time you have to hide it, it's probably not good, and in Kirkwall, at the time, I'd think the safe money was on bad. The point, that you missed thinking that I'm messing with you, is that historically speaking, we've met one blood mage that didn't go batshit crazy and try to kill us, and we spent most of DA 2 accusing her of potentially doing so. Since Hawke is the PC, they don't really count. I'm not sure about you, but after 10 years of that crap, I'd get kinda tired of it too.

[Angloassassin]

Are you sure you didn't let them die when you released Shah Wyrd?  I swear I've let the blood mage go and Petra and the kids survived...

 

That's pretty awesome, though, if I'm just completely misremembering.

 

I killed that thing with stunlocks, No children were harmed in the release of that Demon.

 

It was definitely the Blood Mage, I didn't really notice it my first playthrough. But my 2nd, I played a Sympathetic Bloodmage who was using the powers like Jowan. Worried he wouldn't pass his harrowing. And I found the dead bodies had loaded in properly that time. All of them dead, except the Blood Mage, she was long gone. 

[duckley]

I too find him a bit over the top. My Hawke was pretty laid back. This one is annoying.

[robertthebard]

I think people trying to account for Hawke's behaviour and personality, are missing the point. What many of us who did like Hawke object to is that previously *we* decided how Hawke reacted to things, and in this game its Bioware deciding for us. Big surprise - they can't account for how ever player individually played that character (remember that even with the personality system, you didn't have to choose the same tone every time - it just collated how Hawke approach life in general, but doesn't speak to individual issues and situations).
 
So many of us feel with that being the case, that its pointless to bring such a character back in this way. Either they come back in a DLC as the player character or something like that, or don't bring them back at all. Because the Hawke we got says and does very little, which is already out of character for such a forceful and charismatic character (DA2 made it clear that certain things were always true about Hawke, but let us fill in the details ourselves - basically giving us the script and letting us improv the character's actual lines).
 
And what is said and done, frequently feels out of character from the character we played. Just trying to say 'Oh well because X has happened, then that would mean Hawke would feel Y and do X' is pointless and erroneous. It may be how *your* Hawke would have done things, but its how not MY (or anyone else's individual) Hawke would have acted. It was just a bad idea to bring the character back this way from the start.
 
Basically, you can't tell each individual person on this thread that Hawke's behavior was in keeping with their characters. Because you don't know that - the only person who is qualified to judge that is the person in question, who played the character through DA2 in their own way, with their own choices, and headcanon to guide them on what tone and decisions Hawke adopted in each specific moment.

Here's the problem with that; in DA 2, Hawke was your character. After that, not any more. This is why I keep trying to tell people, you don't really want the Warden back. We got Hawke, and check it out, people aren't happy about how. Imagine this with the Warden? No matter who they hire for voice work, it won't be good enough. In fact, I'd bet that having any voice at all will have the same impact on the BSN as ME 3's ending. As much as the community claims it wants the Warden back, it's never going to get it the way they want it, and this thread is the tip of the iceberg for how bad it would be.

[Ryzaki]

Meh the only bloodmage Hawke I had was a massive pro templar hypocrite who didn't feel anyone other than him could be trusted with it.

 

So worked for me!

[NedPepper]

Complain about Hawke being written out of character and then complain that the HoF isn't in the game....talk about mixed messages.  Guess what?  Complaining Hawke wasn't written "in character" is basically going to make Bioware say, "we're not going to do this anymore."

Which is a shame, because Hawke showing up was my favorite part of the game.  I even got to make him LOOK like my Hawke.  Loved it.  No problem with Hawke's characterization whatsoever.

[cae37]

The problem is that it would probably take up too much time and effort for Bioware to represent Hawke the way every player represented him/her in their own playthroughs of DA:II. It's impossible to bring in Hawke in a way that will please everybody, so they made big decisions on how they would handle Hawke to fit the narrative of DA:I and that's what we got. 

 

It sucks that we truly can't have a fully personalized Hawke based on our previous playthroughs, but I don't think Bioware deserves crap for it. To me it seems way too hard to pull off especially when considering all the pieces that come into play when designing a game with such a big scale.

[Marshal Moriarty]

The Hero of Ferelden will not return, for the simple fact that they could be dead. That fact alone guarantees that the character will have no substantial role in any future Dragon Age game. Bioware have said that the Warden's story is done, and only fans stomping their feet and gnashing their teeth at that, has prevented them from repeating such claims. They will never bring the character back, nor should they for the reasons that others have given.

 

The changes to this game that can occur (the Circles existing again or not, existence or not and role of the Templars etc, the different Divine, the different ruler of Orlais etc), mean that there will be no direct sequel to this game. There are simply too many large issues that can be so different as to make a sequel impossible. Any future Dragon Age game will be set a siginificant amount of time in the future.

 

Assuming there even is one. I feel like this situation with them shedding important staff and (at least on the face of it) underperforming in terms of sales to what EA thought they would deliver, against the money they are being given to make the games... I just think this situation won't last much longer. I think the new Mass Effect game will be the watershed moment for this partnership - if it doesn't both sell gazillions of copies and garner huge critical and fan approval, then I think this partnership is done, and its anyone's guess what will happen after that.

[Fardreamer]

You're the reason why developers are scared to death showing cameo of the warden.  Imagine the amount of hate from people like you will be if they can't get it right (and with so many origins, unlike the single-origin hawke, they are bound to get it "half-assed.)  So thanks to your hateful attitude, we'll never see the warden in cameo.

Yes, how dare I ask for a higher level of accountability with the game developers? How dare I as a paying customer ask for a higher level of attention to detail? It would have been as easy as changing 2 lines to make Hawke better. Instead of just thinking about it a little, they decided to make a silly default.

[Chari]

It felt really off for my nice peaceful Hawks talk like a douchebag. And I guess I'll have to remake my bloodmage Hawks completely
At least I don't feel a tiny bit sorry about leaving the douche in the Fade

[Lucrece]

I was more annoyed with the fact that Hawke suddenly became this anti-Warden character, when in my playthrough I respected the former Grey Warden who guided me to Corypheus.

 

In fact, the whole of DAI was annoyingly anti-Warden.

[Blooddrunk1004]

Hawke using blood magic in trailer doesn't say anything it was done for the trailer purpose and nothing else. Your companions and other NPCs never say anything about you using Blood Magic aside from Wynne in Origins which was IMO well done.

 

However you also have to consider a fact that not only was Hawke being hunted by Blood Mages for almost a decade, but also that Hawke saw his/her own mother getting ripped and killed by one of them in a gruesome way.

[KaiserShep]

The Hero of Ferelden will not return, for the simple fact that they could be dead. That fact alone guarantees that the character will have no substantial role in any future Dragon Age game. Bioware have said that the Warden's story is done, and only fans stomping their feet and gnashing their teeth at that, has prevented them from repeating such claims. They will never bring the character back, nor should they for the reasons that others have given.

 

Considering what we learn in DA:I, to say that the Warden's story is over is kind of a half truth on their part, since the writers decided to give us the idea that s/he is off doing some sort of quest, which happens to be pretty substantial at the same time. Sure, the Warden's story is over insofar that s/he won't be a playable character and is unlikely to even be an NPC, but s/he sure is up to something. 

[Nerdage]

Yes, the constant moralizing about blood magic was a cloud over most of Hawke's screen time for me too, unfortunately. I wouldn't have thought it would be hard to write dialogue that was anti-human-sacrifice and anti-demon-summoning without expressing views about blood magic one way or another, or at least not so damn often.

 

Makes me hope the warden never appears as an NPC, nor any other protagonists for that matter.

[Big I]

This even happens if Hawke romanced Merril and she finished her mirror. Talk about inconsistent.

[Fardreamer]

This even happens if Hawke romanced Merril and she finished her mirror. Talk about inconsistent.

Right! They even have a tile for the mirror in the keep basically showing if you supported her blood magic or not, and they completely ignore it.

[Marshal Moriarty]

The storyline makes no sense, because of these kinds of potential retcons. The mere fact that Hawke is so deeply involved in a Grey Warden storyline when her contact with the Wardens was potentially very brief indeed is just bizarre. Hawke was much more intimately tied to the stories of the Mage/Templar war (either of which she can support and as people have pointed out, she potentially has no real issues with blood magic - and can even use it herself!), the Qunari, possible retribution with Orlais over Prosper de Montfort and of course Corypheus himself.

 

But her involvement with the actual Grey Wardens is far less involved, if you didn't do the 'sibling becomes Grey Warden' route, Unless you take that route, Hawke only meets Stroud once for a conversation lasting no longer than 5 minutes! And stroud is still an odd choice for contact, considering that any of Hawke's surviving sibling, Larius, Janeka and Nathanthiel Howe would have been just as appropriate - some of them much more so than Stroud.

 

I have nothing against Stroud himself or the idea of doing a story with the wardens etc - I just don't understand why they felt it was so necessary to bring Hawke back for this particular story thread and with this character. If you're going to bring Hawke back for a story with the wardens, then at least bring in her warden sibling if she has them, and let her resolve the loose end of Janeka/Larius (as Varric's personal quest confirmed that Janeka was still alive and working for Corypheus).

 

Why bring her back for a largely non speaking, frequently out of character tag along, to a story she has no real relevance to? Because this story is 99% about the Inquisitor and the revelation about what happened at the Temple of Sacred Ashes. Hawke has no relevance to that - you could have had Slim Couldry or Levi Dryden show up as guests and they would have had about as much relevance...

[robertthebard]

The storyline makes no sense, because of these kinds of potential retcons. The mere fact that Hawke is so deeply involved in a Grey Warden storyline when her contact with the Wardens was potentially very brief indeed is just bizarre. Hawke was much more intimately tied to the stories of the Mage/Templar war (either of which she can support and as people have pointed out, she potentially has no real issues with blood magic - and can even use it herself!), the Qunari, possible retribution with Orlais over Prosper de Montfort and of course Corypheus himself.
 
But her involvement with the actual Grey Wardens is far less involved, if you didn't do the 'sibling becomes Grey Warden' route, Unless you take that route, Hawke only meets Stroud once for a conversation lasting no longer than 5 minutes! And stroud is still an odd choice for contact, considering that any of Hawke's surviving sibling, Larius, Janeka and Nathanthiel Howe would have been just as appropriate - some of them much more so than Stroud.
 
I have nothing against Stroud himself or the idea of doing a story with the wardens etc - I just don't understand why they felt it was so necessary to bring Hawke back for this particular story thread and with this character. If you're going to bring Hawke back for a story with the wardens, then at least bring in her warden sibling if she has them, and let her resolve the loose end of Janeka/Larius (as Varric's personal quest confirmed that Janeka was still alive and working for Corypheus).
 
Why bring her back for a largely non speaking, frequently out of character tag along, to a story she has no real relevance to? Because this story is 99% about the Inquisitor and the revelation about what happened at the Temple of Sacred Ashes. Hawke has no relevance to that - you could have had Slim Couldry or Levi Dryden show up as guests and they would have had about as much relevance...

Who ran the prison where we met Cory? Who's trying really hard to get our blood to spring him? The problem with overarching stories is that people lose track of what's going on in them. Depending on when you decided to do Legacy, you could wind up with your last memories of DA 2 being Legacy. The timeline states that Hawke goes, but not when, and that's why. Some people might have done it early, some midgame, and some after the main game was done. In any of those events, however, we have quite a bit of interaction with the Wardens that are trying to kill us to raise Cory. Ultimately, we're duped into doing it ourselves, to "kill" him, something that's impossible to do with a living Warden around, as it turns out.

Also, see above about "Why Hawke". As Varric says, Hawke has some experience with Cory. This will be a circular discussion though, because the people that feel strongest about this are going to go along the same lines as the OGB people: Only my choices should have been considered. Hawke was perfectly in character for my two games, so far. Anti Blood Magic, and not very happy with the Wardens. I'm sure I'm not the only one that went that route. So the whole point of this thread, with the quasi ultimatum in the title of "BioWare needs to get this right" is that only the OP's choice mattered.

[Fardreamer]

Spoiler alert, that one mage that surrendered? Go back down and *Really* Look at the area near the lowered barrier. The children and apprentices are dead, killed by the blood mage.

No. This is not correct. I've played origins dozens of times, and usually let the blood mage go. She never kills he children.myou messed something else up.

[AnImpossibleGirl]

I too find him a bit over the top. My Hawke was pretty laid back. This one is annoying.

Agreed. My Hawke needed a mute button... and an ass kicking back to Kirkwall.