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Hawke was completely out of character (Bioware needs to get this right)


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#176
Ozzy

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MY WARDEN'S VOICE IS AN OCTAVE HIGHER THAN I IMAGINED IT. BIOWAERRR FAILED.

 

E: To the topic at hand, no matter the complaints or the whinging, seeing Hawke and hearing his (or her) musical cue was one of my favourite moments in the game. Bioware didn't have to do it and I imagine they knew the reception they would get from certain fans for not representing their Hawke "properly" but it's cool that they included Hawke in spite of it.

 

It's pretty much an impossible task to get Hawke completely right though given the intricacy with which you can craft him, even when considering the general kind/sarcastic/direct split. So to many, it's probably better if they didn't include him at all but I found it pretty damn cool nonetheless even though he wasn't exactly my Hawke. 

I would have loved one final DLC to wrap up Hawke's tale though. It's a shame about Exalted March. 


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#177
stonerbishop

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Hawke hates blood magic because she realized it was a shitty spec and not nearly powerful enough for all the hullabaloo it earns.

Also, my warden is too busy ruling ferelden to pop up in the inquisition
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#178
Fardreamer

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MY WARDEN'S VOICE IS AN OCTAVE HIGHER THAN I IMAGINED IT. BIOWAERRR FAILED.

 

E: To the topic at hand, no matter the complaints or the whinging, seeing Hawke and hearing his (or her) musical cue was one of my favourite moments in the game. Bioware didn't have to do it and I imagine they knew the reception they would get from certain fans for not representing their Hawke "properly" but it's cool that they included Hawke in spite of it.

 

It's pretty much an impossible task to get Hawke completely right though given the intricacy with which you can craft him, even when considering the general kind/sarcastic/direct split. So to many, it's probably better if they didn't include him at all but I found it pretty damn cool nonetheless even though he wasn't exactly my Hawke. 

I would have loved one final DLC to wrap up Hawke's tale though. It's a shame about Exalted March. 

 

No one's asking for him to be exactly right.  We're just asking that they more than a half-assed effort at it.


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#179
Fardreamer

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Also, my warden is too busy ruling ferelden to pop up in the inquisition

 

Actually they aren't.  Didn't you read the letter you got from them?  They're on some quest to save their own skin while the world falls apart.



#180
robertthebard

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No one's asking for him to be exactly right.  We're just asking that they more than a half-assed effort at it.


Maybe some aren't, but as you can see, others believe the entire focus of the game should have been shifted to Hawke instead of the Inquisitor. My first post directly quoted your first post to demonstrate exactly why they can't bring the HoF back, because this issue is trivial compared to what actually voicing the Warden would be, and how any position not supported by the player would be viewed as destroying their character. Seriously, your title implies that they did just that, despite the fact that your iteration of Hawke isn't the only possible one, by a long shot.
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#181
Marshal Moriarty

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Rovert, you just don't listen, do you?

 

There is *no* accurate way to portray Hawke based on the events on Legacy, because it will always be dependent on who your Hawke was! What part of that are you finding hard to grasp?! Everyone reacts differently to a situation, and interpreting it based on your Hawke and declaring it an accurate portrayal is the worst kind of arrogance ignorance.

 

The issue over blood magic is again your own opinion, and not one you can just push onto Hawke. Anders hated blood magic for example, but he was responsible for the worst atrocity in the game. Meanwhile, your sibling (or whoever was captured in Best Served Cold) is saved by Alain - a blood mage. Idunna was a blood mage but can turn over a new leaf and join the chantry. Merril is probably the nicest person in all 3 games. Not everyone believes blood mages are irredeemably evil and  Not all Hawkes will believe as your does. And your insisttence that they would just shows how you have no idea what this thread is talking about.

 

If red Lyrium is lyrium corrupted by the blight, then you'd think someone would have seen it, yes? You pass by so many darkspawn, including Broodmothers, in Paragon of her KInd, and in Awakening too. The Dwarven Merchants Guild which Varric is part of, has never seen or heard of this lyrium, and these are Dwarfs for whom Lyrium is their LIFE, and they know everything there is to know about it because that directly transaltes to money in their pocket. The notes by the smugglers in the game also indicate that they too have never seen anything like it. Nor has Bianca who is a master smith. If you don't think retcon when you look at this, then there's no hope for you.

 

Again, you completely miss the point. I'm not asking for all those plot threads to be developed in this game - I'm pointing out why because Hawke wasn't the main character but the timeline had to move on, that they *couldn't* be developed. Ergo it was a bad idea to put Hawke in this game, because all you were going to do was annoy people who wanted resolution on those issues. All those plot threads left dangling for further development are gathered up and through banter you might not even get, Varric knocks them all off by saying 'Oh that thing? Nothing happened with that. That other thing? Yeah, lot of fuss over nothing in the end - all done now...' Again and again, just chucking away the unresolved plot threads, saying they didn't matter, or nothing came of them. And the reason for this is simple - because they are done with Hawke and don't intend to do anything more with the character. But for those of us who wanted to see what happened next on all this stuff and how her various plotlines developed, being told 'They didn't. The End' was an anticlimax to say the least!

 

And all in service of resolving the rivarly between Hawke and Corypheus. You know... exactly like it doesn't!

 

What the hell is your problem understanding all this? Alistair and Loghain *can* show up at the end, so that justifies it?! Even when it doesn't happen for a great many people?! What about them? If you don't do the slibing warden line, you meet Stroud once -  once! For 5 minutes in the street! The connection is only a possible one, and certainly not the one that Inquisition presents it as! When are you going to understand that if people can't have *their* Hawke back, then it feels like a different character? That far from being delighted to see them, all they see is some imposter who looks the same but is acting in a completely different way? And where are you pulling the HoF from? Who mentioned them?! Time and again, you try and turn everything into some bizarre attack. So now I'm a HoF fanboy am I? Despite not mentioning them. Okay...

 

You've proven exactly what you are with all this. If you can't understand why people look at Hawke and don't see their character portrayed, then you are just an ignorant fool. Hawke is not a character who is set in stone. Their personality and opinion on all individual issues were decided by the player - if you can't see why people have a problem having those opinions dictated to them and often completely changed to reflect what Bioware needs of the NPC during this quest, then again you have absolutely no understanding of what this thread is about. You take your version of events, and because it works with yours, the rest of us are just fools who aren't playing it properly, yes? Where do they find people like you...

 

And if you look, you'll see I'm perfectly aware that this game has to be about the Inquisitor, not Hawke. I said so many times, but I also said that this is the reason why Hawke should not appear. 2 main characters in the same game, is too many cooks. It forces them to take a character who previously has a personality who second by second, moment by moment, scene by scene, dialogue by dialogue was directed by the player and forces a set of current game plot relevant, quest relevant opinions onto them. And you seem to be having a hard time understanding why people would have a problem with that.

 

DA2 aren't fools and they are aren't blind to the fact that the game was unpopular, making further content difficult. But having the solution be to drag Hawke on screen for this disgraceful mess of retcon and character railroading, whilst having Varric torpedo all the lingering plot threads was like a dagger in the back.  The game is filled with railroading and retcon, but given that Hawke was a player character (and the main character who you have the most control over in terms of their personality), it was all the worse here.

 

Well, you've proven that you aren't willing to listen to reason on this. It works for your Hawke, so the rest of us can just F off, it seems. All people wanted was for a game and character they liked to be respected and for Bioware to understand how misguided it is to try and suddenly make a main character into a supporting character, when said character's personality was entirely player dependant. But that's too much to ask for, it seems. So we just have to bend over and take it, accepting a unrecognizable Hawke in a cameo role on 1 mission, talking and acting in ways that are contrary to our versions, and who has no real relevance even to the quest she *is* in. Because we should just be grateful she's in the game at all, right?

 

Again I say, it must be wonderful to live in your world, where this kind of logic makes sense. Honest to God...



#182
Kinsz

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And this ladies and gentlemen is exactly why the HOF should never be brought back since Bioware are not going to be able to make him match everyone's cannon Warden.


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#183
Marshal Moriarty

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The Warden can be dead, and is from a game which is what... 5-6 years old now? Those 2 factors alone mean the character will never return. The next game (if there is one) will be a time skip into the future. There are simply too many things about Thedas that can be different now, and for the various characters. It won't be possible to make another game that follows on directly, and I can't see EA funding Dragon Age for mucb longer anyway.



#184
herkles

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The Warden can be dead, and is from a game which is what... 5-6 years old now? Those 2 factors alone mean the character will never return. The next game (if there is one) will be a time skip into the future. There are simply too many things about Thedas that can be different now, and for the various characters. It won't be possible to make another game that follows on directly, and I can't see EA funding Dragon Age for mucb longer anyway.

bioware has said there is about 3 more games in the planning stages that are going to be in northern thedas now, ie tevinter, Rivain, the qun. 



#185
Daishar Vneef

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My DAO character had Blood Magic, Hawke had Blood Magic and yet he goes on and on about how bad Blood Magic is? So I personally think he's just covering up. "Oh yeah, blood magic is bad...nothing good ever comes from blood magic; except me saving Kirkwall. Other then that nothing good!"



#186
Marshal Moriarty

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Bioware say a lot of things. Do we really need to list all their broken promises here? Is the word limit big enough for that?



#187
Solar1101

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I'll start of by saying that I really enjoyed having Hawke return and make an appearance in Inquisition.  It was one of my favorite moments in the game when Varric said "Inquisitor, meet Hawke - Champion of Kirkwall."  It was really cool to fight along side one of the previous game's protagonists, and I really wish the Hero of Ferelden had been there as well.

 

But, Bioware completely failed to bring into account if you played Hawke as a Bloodmage or not (or if you were not a blood mage, but played as a character who supported it).  In Inquisition, Hawke chastises the Wardens and generally complains a lot of about blood magic... even if he was a blood mage himself! 

 

I didn't notice this the first time I played, because my "good" Hawke was a snarky rogue.  But my "evil" Hawke was an aggressive blood mage.

 

While they did a good job of keeping the diplomatic, sarcastic, or aggressive personalities... they screwed up big time by making Hawke default to being anti-blood magic.  It almost makes me wish he didn't show up at all because they did a half-assed job with him. 

 

In short, main-protagonist cameos are great, but make sure you invest the time a resources into getting them right!  It would have been easy to add a tile to the Keep to show whether Hawke supported Blood magic or not.

 

*froths at the mouth* BLOODMAGESSSS!!!



#188
Fardreamer

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The Warden can be dead, and is from a game which is what... 5-6 years old now? Those 2 factors alone mean the character will never return. The next game (if there is one) will be a time skip into the future. There are simply too many things about Thedas that can be different now, and for the various characters. It won't be possible to make another game that follows on directly, and I can't see EA funding Dragon Age for mucb longer anyway.


If your Hero of Ferelden is dead then the Orleasian Warden Commander from Awakenings would be the default character. There's a quote somewhere where BW admitted they messed up and forgot about the Orlesian Warden. They said they wanted to change that, and would add him to the Keep eventually. To me that says they wanted to use the HoF in some way but couldn't find a decent alternative if he was dead.

There does not have to be a time skip in the next DA game either. We already know we're leaving Southern Thedas and all the decisions we made there behind. Northern Thedas was untouched by the events of Inquisition, so it could easily happy simultaneously as the events of Inquisition, or just a year later.

#189
Paric

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My DAO character had Blood Magic, Hawke had Blood Magic and yet he goes on and on about how bad Blood Magic is? So I personally think he's just covering up. "Oh yeah, blood magic is bad...nothing good ever comes from blood magic; except me saving Kirkwall. Other then that nothing good!"

 Yeah that wud basicly be my explanation as well, Hawke(even if bloodmage) comes to help Inqusition which is percived by most people as a chantry based operation with right and left heand of divine and a templar at the top of its leadership so it does make sence Hawke doesnt actualy say hey guys yeah sure ill help you with those wardens using bloodmagic, oh yeah and before we start you do know i am a blood mage right:)



#190
LobselVith8

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I feel your pain, OP. My snarky Hawke was not the sort of person to go on harping about blood mages. It was very disappointing. :(

 

Considering mine was supposed to be in a romance with a blood mage, it was... disconcerting, to say the least. As if I had ended up pairing Merrill with some faux Fenris.



#191
ReiKokoFuuu

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the only issue i had with my hawke (i'd hardly even call it an issue) is that despite some of his lines (sarcastic personality) were golden, his overall personality had gotten a little too serious, but i guess going into hiding from just about everyone with an apostate who blew up the kirkwall chantry tends to make anyone take things a little more seriously.


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#192
Catastrophy

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Hawke disposed of in Fade - true hero blahblah - manly tears - problem solved - rival dead - Inquisitor can continue being awesome



#193
Bigdoser

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And this ladies and gentlemen is exactly why the HOF should never be brought back since Bioware are not going to be able to make him match everyone's cannon Warden.

Yup this topic proves why bioware should not do it. 


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#194
Fardreamer

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Yup this topic proves why bioware should not do it.


It's great to know there's so many lazy people like you in the world. Hopefully, instead of just giving up, they instead decide to get it right.

#195
Paric

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It's great to know there's so many lazy people like you in the world. Hopefully, instead of just giving up, they instead decide to get it right.

 

Hate to break your fantazies but Bigdoser is right here, its not viable to recreate HoF properly, simply because it wud be far to painstaking to include all the varriables and make it work well(not to mention the voice at all which no matter how many choices and how HoF wud sound a lot of people wud be unhappy about not mahcing their mental image of their pc from Dao)

So even if they decided to put in a lot of resources into that and manage to get it to take into acount a lot of things, there is simply no way of pleasing everyone, not to mention all this extra work for an cameo or some minor plot involment simply isnt worth it, especialy since it wud backfire anyway with fans not being pleased how they do it.



#196
PsyrenY

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That would be fine, but the DA2 trailer specifically showed Hawke using blood magic to defeat the Arishok... it's kinda /facepalm to hear Hawke complain about it in DA:I.

 

Honestly I just headcanon that that, if it even happened, was a moment of desperation kinda thing for mageHawke and that he really does find blood magic, if not distasteful, then at least not trustworthy.



#197
robertthebard

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Honestly I just headcanon that that, if it even happened, was a moment of desperation kinda thing for mageHawke and that he really does find blood magic, if not distasteful, then at least not trustworthy.


Actually, no head canon required. I played that fight in game, 6 or 7 times, and never used blood magic. CGI trailers are never intended to be representative of actual game play.

#198
AWTEW

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Hawke disposed of in Fade - true hero blahblah - manly tears - problem solved - rival dead - Inquisitor can continue being awesome


You mean continue being as awesome, as a wet blanket.

#199
Squeeze the Fish

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I sort of agree, but only on one part. I thought, for the most part, how Hawke acted was pretty neutral....but then when (s)he went all crazy dark about the Wardens I was like...'Whaaaaa? Did I miss something?'

 

Seriously though. Am I forgetting something that would have made Hawke so anti-Warden, or was that as jarring as it seemed?



#200
Sifr

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I sort of agree, but only on one part. I thought, for the most part, how Hawke acted was pretty neutral....but then when (s)he went all crazy dark about the Wardens I was like...'Whaaaaa? Did I miss something?'

 

Seriously though. Am I forgetting something that would have made Hawke so anti-Warden, or was that as jarring as it seemed?

 

It struck me as a little odd at first, but I figured Hawke's got some mixed feelings on the Wardens.

 

Hawke's had their entire life throw upside down because Anders, a former Warden, went and decided to blow up a Chantry and start a war. Regardless of whether you romanced him or not, that's a hard thing to forgive completely and you can imagine some resentment might still linger in the back of Hawke's mind.

 

In Legacy s/he learned that Larius coerced their father into agreeing to help the Wardens reseal Corypheus' prison by threatening to harm their mother (who was pregnant with them at the time), while Janeka tried to kill them because they refused to help free Corypheus.

 

Their sibling might also be a Warden, so they're now worried that they'll also be branded as a traitor and have people sent after them, like Loghain/Stroud/Alistair, just because they rejected this foolish plan to summon a demon army.

 

Any of those could be enough reason for Hawke to be wary of the Wardens.


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