247 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaeger65]

...likened it to a gun control issue.

The free mages want to use magic to put food on the table, protect themselves, etc and if one or two (a minority) goes bonkers...oh well, caca happens. Viv believes in only the state militia having guns.

Does your own feelings about magic in Thedas equal your stance here on Earth with guns?

[veeia]

Nope. Regardless of my feelings on gun control, it's an interesting comparison, but ultimately doesn't work for me.

Mages are people, not weapons. They have agency and free will, and they aren't made, they're born that way. Guns can be dismantled, but mages can only be stripped of magic if they are stripped of their selfhood.

They can be dangerous, but they need to be treated humanely and fairly as human beings (or elves or Qunari), not just potential threats or sources of power.

[Serza]

Yes. The only person to be considered a weapon is a person who makes that choice to become one.

 

Most Mages never chose to become weapons, and remain regular people. In fact, many chose to become healers and similar harmless jobs.

[Sah291]

Yes I noticed that also, and I think maybe it's an intended parallel. I recall David Gaider making this comparison specifically about blood magic in an interview. 

 

At around the 6:35 mark...

Spoiler

 

 

Also, if you play a mage and talk to Solas about blood magic, he...

Spoiler

Makes a similar argument you often hear in gun control debates, about how if you outlaw it, only criminals will have it, etc.

[Mushashi7]

People who own a gun tend to use it.

Isn't that so?

[Colonelkillabee]

...likened it to a gun control issue.

The free mages want to use magic to put food on the table, protect themselves, etc and if one or two (a minority) goes bonkers...oh well, caca happens. Viv believes in only the state militia having guns.

Does your own feelings about magic in Thedas equal your stance here on Earth with guns?

Not at all, because no one's born with a gun in their hands that can attract demons that make them kill their entire family, lol. They're not at all the same. Owning a gun's no different from owning a sword or a bow and arrow, or crossbow. It's just more effective as a killing tool.

 

Magic, however. That comes with a whole trunkload of risks to yourself and others, even when you're not using it. The comparison doesn't work.

[Ieldra]

IIRC, David Gaider's comparison was about blood magic and the question of outlawing it or not, not magic as such.

[MisterJB]

Nope, complete opposite. I'm pro-gun in real life and pro-mage control in Thedas.

[Dune01]

I can feel that this thread will get out of control.

[Sah291]

Not at all, because no one's born with a gun in their hands that can attract demons that make them kill their entire family, lol. They're not at all the same. Owning a gun's no different from owning a sword or a bow and arrow, or crossbow. It's just more effective as a killing tool.

 

Magic, however. That comes with a whole trunkload of risks to yourself and others, even when you're not using it. The comparison doesn't work.

 

Well, in DA2, we're introduced to gun powder (the whole blackpowder storyline) and I recall Hawke comparing it to magic. He has a line, something about "why do we need this when we already have mages who can do that" and the dwarf (Javaris?) responds how it is useful for the common man and why should only mages have that power. Then of course, we had Anders using gun powder in his spell to blow up the chantry, so the line gets even further blurred. 

 

In DAI we're reminded that souls only go willingly, so I don't know if it's necessarily as easy to get accidentally possessed by mistake as it seems. Both Merrill and Anders made a choice to deal with spirits/demons. It didn't just happen.

 

Interestingly, there's a similar comparison with healing magic and medicine. If you talk to the surgeon outside the keep in DAI, it appears medicine is becoming a field of study now so they don't need to rely just on mages for healing. With the introduction of gun powder and medicine, are mages going to become obsolete in the future?

[Panda]

Intresting. Let's see.. guns are pretty banned in my country compared to US for example. I'm very anti-guns myself, why would someone have weapon in the house? There is no legit reason for that. Then I'm Pro-Circle but the Hogwarts kind of. Mages aren't weapons but they have weapons that can't be taken away from them (without turning them to zombies). So they must be taught properly to use their weapons and how to not use them. When they master their weapons and are evaluated as not dangerous by teaching mages they live freely. Templars will then catch mages that commit crimes. Perfect system ^^

[Colonelkillabee]

Well, in DA2, we're introduced to gun powder (the whole blackpowder storyline) and I recall Hawke comparing it to magic. He has a line, something about "why do we need this when we already have mages who can do that" and the dwarf (Javaris?) responds how it is useful for the common man and why should only mages have that power. Then of course, we had Anders using gun powder in his spell to blow up the chantry, so the line gets even further blurred. 

How does that blur the line, the main thing that makes people fear magic is demons and the control that blood magic brings.

 

Yes people fear the raw power magic has, but since the beginning, the main thing has always been demons and blood magic. Hawke's comment, like most of what involves him, is irrelevant.

[Colonelkillabee]

Intresting. Let's see.. guns are pretty banned in my country compared to US for example. I'm very anti-guns myself, why would someone have weapon in the house? There is no legit reason for that.

Dude you must live in lala land. What reason? Try protection. Like a month ago, some old man shot and killed one of three knuckleheads that broke into his home and tried to rape his granddaughter. The other two ****** ran away.

[Dune01]

Dude you must live in lala land. What reason? Try protection. Like a month ago, some old man shot and killed one of three knuckleheads that broke into his home and tried to rape his granddaughter. The other two ****** ran away.

Well, that doesn't happen everywhere. Look at UK for example. Even their cops don't have guns and crime rates are relatively low. How, you must wonder? You don't treat fire with fire.

I live in a, what you would call, a third world country, but guns are forbidden by law. There is crime, but it's not widespread. I don't have to fear that someone will come to my house and rape me or try and kill me. In USA, that doesn't seem to be uncommon.

EDIT: I'm sorry if there seems to be an anti-american vibe. There really isn't. I tried my best to make my point clear and am sorry if I failed.

[Panda]

Dude you must live in lala land. What reason? Try protection. Like a month ago, some old man shot and killed one of three knuckleheads that broke into his home and tried to rape his granddaughter. The other two ****** ran away.

 

You get jailed for killing people here no matter the circumstances, I know that it isn't so in US but that doesn't mean it's accepted everywhere

[MisterJB]

Intresting. Let's see.. guns are pretty banned in my country compared to US for example. I'm very anti-guns myself, why would someone have weapon in the house? There is no legit reason for that.

Protection in case someone tries to break in.

[Panda]

Protection in case someone tries to break in.

 

Unnecessary. Such thing doesn't really happen and seldom cases it does you have mobile phone which you can use to call cops. You are only allowed to use non-lethal force as self-defense anyways so if you have gun in that situation you end up jail for manslaughter pretty fast.

[Sah291]

How does that blur the line, the main thing that makes people fear magic is demons and the control that blood magic brings.

 

Yes people fear the raw power magic has, but since the beginning, the main thing has always been demons and blood magic. Hawke's comment, like most of what involves him, is irrelevant.

 

Because gun powder is also just a tool. Both magic and gun powder can be useful for benign purposes, or used maliciously to hurt others.  I thought that theme was pretty heavily shown in DA2. You can also have a whole dialogue with the Arishok about selling their recipe, and he has a speech about it getting into the wrong hands, etc. The Qunari keep that technology tightly controlled. 

 

At any rate, I always thought that "magic" in DA might be a metaphor for science/technology. At least in part. 

[Dune01]

Protection in case someone tries to break in.

You don't kill someone if he breaks in. You normally call the police.

[MisterJB]

You don't kill someone if he breaks in. You normally call the police.

 

Which takes time to arrive. I'm not saying firing should be the first resort but I would appreciate having the means to defend myself and my family in the absence of the police.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

You get jailed for killing people here. I know that it isn't so in US but that doesn't mean it should be accepted everywhere

Wow, that's retarded. If someone breaks into my home, it's my natural born right to protect my life and my family's life.

 

To those saying call the police, I assume you mean while he's stealing my **** or raping my wife and or kids?

 

You people are neutered.

 

Because gun powder is also just a tool. Both magic and gun powder can be useful for benign purposes, or used maliciously to hurt others.  I thought that theme was pretty heavily shown in DA2. You can also have a whole dialogue with the Arishok about selling their recipe, and he has a speech about it getting into the wrong hands, etc. The Qunari keep that technology tightly controlled. 

 

At any rate, I always thought that "magic" in DA might be a metaphor for science/technology. At least in part. 

Gunpowder doesn't attract demons, hence the comparison falls flat immediately.

[MisterJB]

Plus, everyone can use gunpowder. Only a few are born with magic.

[Panda]

Wow, that's retarded. If someone breaks into my home, it's my natural born right to protect my life and my family's life.

 

To those saying call the police, I assume you mean while he's stealing my **** or raping my wife and or kids?

 

You people are neutered.

 

I prefer civilized.

 

You know not every country functions like US ^^; Also we don't have as much crime as you seem to have, it's not Wild West here.

[Sah291]

 

Gunpowder doesn't attract demons, hence the comparison falls flat immediately.

 

No not gunpowder by itself, but people do. Another thing DA2 introduced was that not only mages could become possessed. That was one of the things I liked actually about the Sebastian DLC, with his personal quest. The Harimanns supposedly never had magic in their bloodline. It was Lady Harimann's lust for power that attracted the Desire Demon. In DAI, after the Winter Palace quest, Solas comments about how powerful demons watch over court. 

[Colonelkillabee]

I prefer civilized.

 

You know not every country functions like US ^^; Also we don't have as much crime as you seem to have, it's not Wild West here.

Britain's a good example of this not mattering. Britain banned guns... now most of their crimes happen with knives. They tried banning knives too. Does nothing to their crime rate.

 

And anyway, it really doesn't matter if your crime rate's as high as ours. I'm sure the victims in your country won't be very comforted by the thought, after the deed's been done.

 

Don't care if I lived in Switzerland, better prepared than sorry.