I prefer civilized.
You know not every country functions like US ^^; Also we don't have as much crime as you seem to have, it's not Wild West here.
Civilization can't be mantained without weapons. And this is an European speaking.
What logical argument is there against having a gun for self-defense against, say people who invade your home?
If they are so rare, then the gun simply won't be used. If there is need for it, then it is there.
No not gunpowder by itself, but people do. Another thing DA2 introduced was that not only mages could become possessed. That was one of the things I liked actually about the Sebastian DLC, with his personal quest. The Harimanns supposedly never had magic in their bloodline. It was Lady Harimann's lust for power that attracted the Desire Demon. In DAI, after the Winter Palace quest, Solas comments about how powerful demons watch over court.
It's again irrelevant, because they only get possessed due to the presence of some mage doing **** they shouldn't be. 9 times out of 10.
Well this thread is going nowhere good real fast...
But if you want a better comparison, just look at the Saarebas. They are literally treated like guns - dangerous objects to be used only when necessary. And that just shows how ridiculous the comparison is because they aren't weapons. They're people. When you try to control a person in the same way you control a weapon, then you get Saarebas. And that's horrific. You can't compare mages to guns because one is a hunk of metal and the other is a living, breathing person. I approve of controlling a hunk of metal that gives someone the ability to easily kill another person. I do not approve of treating someone like a lesser form of life simply because they potentially have the power to kill someone.
Well this thread is going nowhere good real fast...
But if you want a better comparison, just look at the Saarebas. They are literally treated like guns - dangerous objects to be used only when necessary. And that just shows how ridiculous the comparison is because they aren't weapons. They're people. When you try to control a person in the same way you control a weapon, then you get Saarebas. And that's horrific. You can't compare mages to guns because one is a hunk of metal and the other is a living, breathing person. I approve of controlling a hunk of metal that gives someone the ability to easily kill another person. I do not approve of treating someone like a lesser form of life simply because they potentially have the power to kill someone.
Well said. You spoke the words that I couldn't quite phrase right. There are countless possibilities in a living being, even if volatile and raging. A gun only has one.
It's again irrelevant, because they only get possessed due to the presence of some mage doing **** they shouldn't be. 9 times out of 10.
Perhaps, but I don't think that's necessarily what the writers were going for. I see mages as people who, because of their connection to the fade, have an innate ability to create and shape reality. So spirits/demons are naturally more attracted to them, but I think as technology (like gunpowder, medicine) spreads through Thedas the lines between mages and non mages is going to blur a bit. You can already see hints of that.
Britain's a good example of this not mattering. Britain banned guns... now most of their crimes happen with knives. They tried banning knives too. Does nothing to their crime rate.
And anyway, it really doesn't matter if your crime rate's as high as ours. I'm sure the victims in your country won't be very comforted by the thought, after the deed's been done.
Don't care if I lived in Switzerland, better prepared than sorry.
Civilization can't be mantained without weapons. And this is an European speaking.
What logical argument is there against having a gun for self-defense against, say people who invade your home?
If they are so rare, then the gun simply won't be used. If there is need for it, then it is there.
Since this is dragging the thread quite much this is last I will say do reply about this.
There is no reason to have gun in the house. Every month or couple month the newspaper in my country write how someone killed family member or friend by accident in US because they have guns in home. Also school shootings and all kind of shootings require use of guns. Of cource people will still do crimes without but the dmg will decrease dramatically.
You aren't allowed to kill person since that's manslaughter. No matter the circumstances. Sometimes that rule is followed too closely here but at least there isn't overreactions that end u someone getting killed for no reason. There is no executions, no police shooting people to death (in general police doesn't use guns here) and no shooting someone because of accident. Less people end up dead. Also the crime rates are lower here so you don't need that much self-defense. This is what civilization for me is, middle ages is the one where people kill people.
Without getting into the flame-bait topic of how gun control should be handled, yes, my view of magic does match up more or less match up to it: it has the inherent potential for danger, but as long as you can prove you know what you're doing and have a legitimate reason to use it, go ahead. Maybe with documentation to make sure you keep straight, and maybe sometimes with expert supervision to make sure you can do it safely, but go ahead.
I know this is kind of stating the obvious, and not really news to anyone, but this is probably not going to go well.
This is probably going to go really poorly.
I know this is kind of stating the obvious, and not really news to anyone, but this is probably not going to go well.
This is probably going to go really poorly.
Yeah, and that's a shame. One of the reasons I liked this theme showing up in the game is because I feel like we aren't really permitted to discuss it at all. It's such a taboo and off limits topic now. We're permitted, and even encouraged by the news media and whatnot, to have very polarized and angry flame wars with demagoguery, but not to actually have any meaningful or productive discussion. I respect the writers for trying, anyway. Oh well.
I think it's a rather huge stretch, even still. Guns alone do not attract danger. If anything, the appearance of a gun deters danger. Not to mention, you're not born with a gun in your hand... Magic on the other hand, the very presence posses a risk to attracting demons. That's why they go so far as to tranquil those that aren't strong enough to handle it, though that to me is a stupid practice.
Next and off topic, there is always a reason to have a gun in your house. If someone doesn't want to die, then perhaps they should have thought about that before breaking into someone's home??
And that's all there is to it. No one has the right to tell me what I can and can't have in my house to protect my family, period.
Does your own feelings about magic in Thedas equal your stance here on Earth with guns?
Absolutely not. I'm pro gun control (US citizen here) but I'm just as strongly pro mage freedom. Why? Well, as others have said, mages are people not objects. Any crazy can go grab a gun and use it, mages are born having abilities and each and everyone of them is different. I'm not going to condemn someone to a life of shackles just because they might do something. Mage academies would be ideal, like in Tevinter.
I think likening people to objects is not a fair comparison. A more accurate one, albeit even trickier to handle because it's a sensitive subject, would be mages are people with a mental illness. Most people are not well informed about mental illness and assume that it means 'insane, about to go off, dangerous'. There are tons of variations in conditions. Some are harmless, some are harmful to the person suffering from it and some are a danger to other people (psychosis comes to mind).
Circles: Asylums
Templars: Orderlies
Tranquility: Lobotomy
Well in my case it's fairly true. I am mostly okay with guns but think they need to be regulated such that not any old fool can get their hands on one. Similarly, I am not anti-magic, I even think blood-magic can be worthwhile from time to time, but I believe its use needs to be regulated. So I support the Circle.
That said, I liken mages more to nukes than to guns.
I think many people forgot demon problem with the mages. Although magic itself is very dangerous untrained the real threats are demons. One child that gots tempted like Connor can kill whole town of people without even wanting to hurt anyone. Without Circle system that's pound to happen all over the Thedas and I'm pretty sure the peasants at that point will kill every mage child they find to prevent it. That's already happening in Thedas anyways.
long as we treat them proper right? It could go all FMAI would assume if Magic existed in our world I would guarante that we would treat mages like in Dragon Age. So they would be indentured workers for the state. Limited freedom but a sweet job if you ask me.
Nah, it's more like a gun with an Al Qaeda recruiter taped to the side of it. Maybe they'll convince you to kill a bunch of innocent people with it, maybe they won't.
IRL and in Thedas they'd either be in charge or wiped out. Chances are they'd be in charge, because they're just a vastly more powerful sub-species.
It hadn't even occurred to me, tbh, and I'm still not seeing it. Mages are born mages, gun owners are not born gun owners. Mages didn't choose to be mages, gun owners choose to buy and use guns. Being a mage is an inescapable part of one's identity, just as their race, sexuality or religion is, while owning guns is a risky hobby at best. If magic worked like it seems to in the Elder Scrolls-verse, where anyone can put in the effort to learn it, then I'd see a similarity. As of now, the mage issue, much like the mutant issue in X-Men for example, reminds me a lot more of race issues, or religious persecution (not of the western "you're discriminating against me by telling me not to discriminate against minorities!" variety, mind), etc.
Regardless, my take on both is somewhat similar (ie: nuanced, neither total freedom/lack of regulation, nor circle imprisonment/outlawing).
Modifié par Alejandrawrr, 13 décembre 2014 - 05:20 .
A person with an innate ability that they don't even want in the first place (because, to date, life as a mage in Thedas has basically sucked) doesn't strike me as being equivalent to having a weapon that you can decide to put down or to pick up at any time, so I really wouldn't liken magic or mages to guns.
not to mention the potential for a demon to take over, and that one constently hears whispers from the fade to let the demons take over. Not to mention the nightmares and dreams from the fade.
though, atreiyaN7: mage life in tevinter is good, but then again you are also part of the ruling class if you are a mage there.
I sort think it's similar. Mages aren't weapons but they have weapons and they have them freely. It's not like they can be screened for mental health before acquiring their weapons. They simply have them. Now the problem isn't the weapon. It's the fact that the vast majority of people are stupid. Even with gun control laws we have cases of kids killing each other by mistake, an idiot who points a loaded gun at himself for fun and end up dead, and of course criminals who use guns for violence. I don't believe that everyone with a gun should be preemptively locked up, nor do I feel the same about mages. However, they do need restrictions. Just like gun owners need them. Treating them like an unarmed person at all times is naive cause they're never unarmed and when they do use their magic they have the potential to do a lot more harm. I do think Circles should become schools, the Harrowing should stay, Tranquility should be a punishment, Templars should become a police force, Phylacteries should be made of every mage still along with a census of where they are living, and more restrictions should be in place on areas where Mage populations are getting high. Now if mages still complain about lack of freedom, then to hell with them.
As a UK citizen gun control is thankfully not a worry of mine, I don't think Bioware intended to make a comment on gun-control but it could have been an influence? I suppose someone from the states would have a better understanding than me though.
You don't kill someone if he breaks in. You normally call the police.
The question is, what kind of fucked up society do you live in, when you have to actually fear for a break in, every day of your life, and arm yourself accordingly.
I havn't locked my front door in 15 years...
The question is, what kind of fucked up society do you live in, when you have to actually fear for a break in, every day of your life, and arm yourself accordingly.
I havn't locked my front door in 15 years...
Mind if I ask where you live where you do not have those fears?
Ce sujet est fermé
Retour en haut